Lange Odysseus vs Vacheron Overseas

[AlyRba]

Based on the comments in this and the Patek forum, it is safe to say that Nautilus, Royal Oak, and even the Aquanaut remain the leaders in the luxury sports watch segment as far as desirability is concerned.

However, what will be your pick between Lange Odysseus and Vacheron Overseas date-only model and why?

[Fat_ninja]

I prefer the VCO but not the date model

[agentmeister5]

I'd go with the Overseas. It has a better overall look and is priced better. The blue and black dials have gained in popularity and holding their values better now too.

[WatchEater666]

The Vacheron but personally would rather go with a Royal Oak in that price range.

[GB-man]

vc

[_speedmaster_]

Vacheron. Although likely not finished to the same standard, the VC offers better value and is more aesthetically pleasing to me.
Also, I'm kind of sick of blue dialed sports watches and the brown dial overseas is awesome.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Vacheron. Although likely not finished to the same standard, the VC offers better value and is more aesthetically pleasing to me.
Also, I'm kind of sick of blue dialed sports watches and the brown dial overseas is awesome.

Have you seen VC finishing first hand? I strongly doubt that could be referred to as inferior in any way to your run of the mill Lange, and especially the full rotor ones that for some reason all have this ugly harsh ledge below the rotor... if anything the VC 5100, while admittedly not as complicated, is prettier than the Lange L 155.1

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

Have you seen VC finishing first hand? I strongly doubt that could be referred to as inferior in any way to your run of the mill Lange, and especially the full rotor ones that for some reason all have this ugly harsh ledge below the rotor... if anything the VC 5100, while admittedly not as complicated, is prettier than the Lange L 155.1

I’m not sure there’s such a thing as a run of the mill Lange. The company is know to finish all of its pieces to a very high standard regardless of model. Also, with their low production numbers, they’re hardly common.

Harsh ledge? Are you referring to the 3/4 plate?

And I agree with you. VC finishes its watches to a very high level.

Here are pics of the two movements you mentioned:

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Watcheroo

I’m not sure there’s such a thing as a run of the mill Lange. The company is know to finish all of its pieces to a very high standard regardless of model. Also, with their low production numbers, they’re hardly common.

Harsh ledge? Are you referring to the 3/4 plate?

And I agree with you. VC finishes its watches to a very high level.

Here are pics of the two movements you mentioned:

Thanks for the pictures, my comment was geared more towards a simpler and larger production movement would have some less refined structural parts than a more complex one, if for no other reason than that there would not be any room on a more complex movement. This is the case for each of both brands. But I agree that run of the mill refers to a very high standard of mill here.

As for the ledge, on the L155, you can see that the rotor “rests” on a ledge that protrudes from the large cover bridge. No doubt the Lange finish is fantastic in general, but I always found that detail to be a bit unsightly, it’s the same on the L85. Don’t know why Lange does that.

Altogether, even though the theatrics of Lange finish might be more striking on first sight, I’ve always found the discrete perfection of VC’s movements generally more appealing and ultimately more impressive from a handwork perspective - to me personally at least, after a long deliberation on what to spend my money on.

Look at that VC rotor for instance, unassuming if you compare to the Lange, but the Lange rotor’s deep reliefs are the product of a CNC machine and a beadblaster, whereas the VC rotor is engraved by hand. To me, more impressive. Same with the blued screws. Sure, look striking, but also polish doesn’t need to be as meticulous on them as on the black polished screws of the VC. Many little details like these, but they add up.

So when someone comes along and makes an entirely baseless claim that the finish on the Lange would somehow be superior because that occasionally gets preached on the forums by would be keyboard warriors, I felt I’d pitch in.

Of course ultimately all a matter of taste.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

...

As for the ledge, on the L155, you can see that the rotor “rests” on a ledge that protrudes from the large cover bridge. No doubt the Lange finish is fantastic in general, but I always found that detail to be a bit unsightly, it’s the same on the L85. Don’t know why Lange does that.

...

Look at that VC rotor for instance, unassuming if you compare to the Lange, but the Lange rotor’s deep reliefs are the product of a CNC machine and a beadblaster, whereas the VC rotor is engraved by hand. To me, more impressive. Same with the blued screws. Sure, look striking, but also polish doesn’t need to be as meticulous on them as on the black polished screws of the VC. Many little details like these, but they add up.

...

Nothing resting on anything protruding from anywhere!
The plate that you refer to is full thickness, which has been machined to match the radius profile of the rotor, where its mass is.
Those screws on the periphery attach the plate to the base.
You can see the exact same profile cut-out on the Vacheron movement, and the only difference is that the rotor’s radius is all but half the diameter of the base, unlike the Lange’s, which is shorter than the base’s.

When it comes to haute horlogerie, you can be sure that heat blued screws are meticulously polished before being blued, by and large.

[RHJ]

VC without no doubt

[AK797]

I'd go VC now but when the Lange chrono comes out that will be something special as ever, hope a slim rubber strap is available by then.

[supersam80]

VC everyday. I'm actually thinking of selling my gmt to fund a date only overseas to pair with my roc

[ts3]

Not interested in either. If there were no other options and I had to pick one it would be the VC. I really like the 222 though but am not ready to pay up.

[Roger Lococco]

2nd gen VC Chrono :)


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[jtli202]

Not really a fair comparison as the Lange just came out and people have yet to really see it in person yet, nor are there that many photos around.

That being said, based on pictures and videos of the Lange alone, VC blue dial. Keep in mind that this is the 3rd generation of the overseas. I would take the Lange over the 1st and 2nd gen VC's ez

[tommy67]

I would pick the Lange Odysseus.

[ap1]

Vc

[MichaelFlash]

VC for now (chrono), may change opinion if I get to try on the Lange.

[GoingPlaces]

VC easy. I just can’t get past the Lange bracelet.


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[cascavel]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

VC easy. I just can’t get past the Lange bracelet.


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This is funny because, for years, the knock on the Overseas was that everyone hated the bracelet and then when VC put the Overseas on a rubber strap people switched to hating the bezel.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by cascavel

This is funny because, for years, the knock on the Overseas was that everyone hated the bracelet and then when VC put the Overseas on a rubber strap people switched to hating the bezel.

But that is fair enough, the Nautilus and RO with their rounded Octagon and Octagon shapes are also not for everyone, and before the hype lots of people were openly disparaging, altho when the price goes thru the roof it is amazing how many people's issues fall away. If Lange had priced this at $21K and the resale went straight to $27K you would have the same affect.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by AK797

But that is fair enough, the Nautilus and RO with their rounded Octagon and Octagon shapes are also not for everyone, and before the hype lots of people were openly disparaging, altho when the price goes thru the roof it is amazing how many people's issues fall away. If Lange had priced this at $21K and the resale went straight to $27K you would have the same affect.

You make an excellent point about the design of the Nautilus and RO but as far as the price of the Odysseus is concerned, isn't it already cheaper than the Aquanaut, Nautilus, 15202 and Chronometre Bleu since they are really only available in the secondary market?
Comparing the Odysseus to the VCO is a waste since the VCO has been a dog, in terms of popularity, it's entire existence.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by cascavel

You make an excellent point about the design of the Nautilus and RO but as far as the price of the Odysseus is concerned, isn't it already cheaper than the Aquanaut, Nautilus, 15202 and Chronometre Bleu since they are really only available in the secondary market?
Comparing the Odysseus to the VCO is a waste since the VCO has been a dog, in terms of popularity, it's entire existence.

I was thinking they should have priced this more like the pilot 5522, low price limited release, and used that as a template, or at least priced this a few grand under the Nautilus. People want value now, even with HH brands, they won't pay a high retail for this just because those others are unavailable now, every piece is judged on its own merits/value potential.

[TJMike]

[QUOTE=cascavel;10086095]You make an excellent point about the design of the Nautilus and RO but as far as the price of the Odysseus is concerned, isn't it already cheaper than the Aquanaut, Nautilus, 15202 and Chronometre Bleu since they are really only available in the secondary market?
Comparing the Odysseus to the VCO is a waste since the VCO has been a dog, in terms of popularity, it's entire existence.[/QUOTE]

It is amazing how people can sprout total BS. The Overseas is actually selling incredibly well after an admittedly slow start. People at VC and as well as Richemont are very happy with how the watch is performing.

[wesleyvs]

Originally Posted by AK797

But that is fair enough, the Nautilus and RO with their rounded Octagon and Octagon shapes are also not for everyone, and before the hype lots of people were openly disparaging, altho when the price goes thru the roof it is amazing how many people's issues fall away. If Lange had priced this at $21K and the resale went straight to $27K you would have the same affect.

This.

Curious to see how this poll will be in a few years if the Lange turn out to be very hard to get and gets a high premium on the market.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by wesleyvs

This.

Curious to see how this poll will be in a few years if the Lange turn out to be very hard to get and gets a high premium on the market.

What I wonder is whether “hard to get” will still be a thing in a few years time. The industry is catching onto Rolex’s playbook and it’s becoming a trend to make watches unobtainable. When everyone does it though, it’s hardly cool to get one of the unobtainable watches anymore. Just like Breitling, Omega and Hublot limited editions used to be a thing in the early to mid 2000nds and by the end of the decade, when the associations to sports teams, rockets and bond movies started to become ever more forced, it just faded into massive discounts on Jomashop.

From that standpoint, Rolex and Patek/AP have a special place, because the claim of being the original cannot be substituted.

A Lange and an Overseas however, though wonderful on their respective merits (in the latter case at least), will just end up exhausting their target audience’s patience if you withhold too many of them from the market. They may sustain a 6 months waiting period or something like that, but if you make them unobtainable, people will go and seek out something else, if they care in the first place. I mean look at all the limited by production Laureatos being discounted after sitting in dealers cases for years, or the bloodbath Chopard is setting itself up for with windows full of their eagle stuff.

[mps354]

Lange for me, can’t stand the vc bezel

[Jace]

I own the overseas. I don’t see selling it anytime in the near future.


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[TJMike]

VC and Lange are my two favorite brands. The Overseas is a much better watch and it is also a lot less expensive. An easy choice.