I love gs.......but.....

[Kinnakeet]

Somethings going on , besides a flooding of limited and special editions...
The lovely new Birch-SLGH005,,,shows a carved vertical pattern suggesting trees... then along comes the Shosho SBGJ249,,,displaying a carved horizontal pattern suggesting summer ripples in a lake....
My eyes are telling me the dial template is the same ... oriented differently .
The same fate has befallen the immensely popular SBGA413- one minute the dial portrays floating cherry blossoms... the SBGA415 has the same pattern in silver-portraying snow encrusted pine trees..... there is also this dial pattern coloured dark blue- now it’s showing a cloudy night sky.....
Here is my issue- by recycling the dial pattens GS is diluting the importance and specialness of the Birch , and the Cherry Blossom pieces.
I will cry a River of tears if they ever mess with the Snowflake dial or the Mount Iwate dial ....
Any way thank you all for reading my little rant ...

[Kinnakeet]

Here are some pics:

[snyde]

Originally Posted by Kinnakeet

Here are some pics:

Wow, these are nice looking watches.


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[Whineboy]

Grand Seiko does reuse a lot of dials. The pattern for ths Shunbun / Spring is also used on at least these, according to Anthony Kable’s marvelous Plus9Time website:

SBGA415
SBGA403
SBGA409
SBGA425
SBGA433
SBGA435
SBGC231
SBGC238
SBGE265
SBGY005

I adore my Spring, it is the most beautiful watch I own.

[Old Expat Beast]

Seiko has been gradually carrying dial patterns and case shapes from Grand Seiko to more affordable lines since the 1960s. It's good that as many folks as possible get to enjoy them, IMO. That's part of what makes Seiko an appealing brand.

...and the Snowflake dial has been around since the early 1970s

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Seiko has been gradually carrying dial patterns and case shapes from Grand Seiko to more affordable lines since the 1960s. It's good that as many folks as possible get to enjoy them, IMO. That's part of what makes Seiko an appealing brand.

...and the Snowflake dial has been around since the early 1970s

I agree that the sharing of some accomplishments between GS and Seiko is a good thing .( example - some seiko watches have spring drive now ) But I think what still bothers me is how they market their new dial designs ...the patterns are “recycled”into different representations - one minute a lovely dial represents birch trees ; the next minute that dial is “ inspired” by rippling water... the specialness of that dial is diluted .

I hope that the snowflake dial will always represent the snow outside the Suwa studio , and that the Iwate dial will never be anything other then inspired by that Magestic mountain side .

[dchang81]

i'm more put off by their inspired by marketing. this is inspired by the weeds in my front lawn

[Cru Jones]

The dial is a key part of GS identity and they are adapting it to different applications. I’m don’t see the issue with that.

[Kinnakeet]

My issue is best explained by this post on Watchuseek.


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[swish77]

Those dials mentioned by the OP have similar textures, but they’re not really the same. Each one has differences, and combined with the differences in color, cases and other design elements, I see them as very different watches. I have no issues with that approach.

This is what GS does, and it’s the only watch brand that is conceptual like that, with themes borrowed from nature. It’s a very Japanese approach and one reason the brand’s popularity is increasing. Often makes other brands seem boring in comparison.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Kinnakeet

My issue is best explained by this post on Watchuseek.


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Either one loves a watch or they don't. IMHO, it has nothing to do with limited or not. Not sure why having somehting someone else can't have makes a watch more "special".

So, a GS that's similar to a Four Seasons is just more to go around for everyone. Nothing wrong with that (well, maybe that impacts resale, but, I wear a watch, not value retention).

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Either one loves a watch or they don't. IMHO, it has nothing to do with limited or not. Not sure why having somehting someone else can't have makes a watch more "special".

So, a GS that's similar to a Four Seasons is just more to go around for everyone. Nothing wrong with that (well, maybe that impacts resale, but, I wear a watch, not value retention).

I do understand what you are saying - and I agree with wearing a watch because you like it and not for value retention - my mindset to ; but ... maybe we are not on the same page regarding my dial issue ;
So I just watched a YouTube vid on the mount Iwate dial iterations-Jtm Watches - it was excellent ! It showed case,colour,and movement iterations; all the watch dials represented mount Iwate . That’s great !! I love them all.
But what GS is doing- say to the cherry blossom dial , is colouring it differently and then “ marketing” it as ...whatever!
Grand Seiko dials have ( up til recently ) been awe inspiring to me ... but I think they are cutting corners these days,(ie- recycling dial patterns into multiple themes ...),in order to pump out as many special and limited editions as possible.
One last comment - my GS AD did NOT give a discount on my SBGA413.... because it was a special edition . It does t feel special to me any more .

[accountank2000]

Originally Posted by Kinnakeet

but ... maybe we are not on the same page regarding my dial issue ;

But what GS is doing- say to the cherry blossom dial , is colouring it differently and then “ marketing” it as ...whatever!

Grand Seiko dials have ( up til recently ) been awe inspiring to me ... but I think they are cutting corners these days,(ie- recycling dial patterns into multiple themes ...),in order to pump out as many special and limited editions as possible.

I do get your point. We want to feel we're getting something special.

If they tell us they were inspired to create a new textured dial based on the bark of a silver birch tree, that sounds great. The artists went out into nature, took inspiration, came back and created something beautiful. And then they tell some other customers that they were inspired to create a new textured dial based on the ripples of a lake, that sounds great. The artists went out into nature, took inspiration, came back and created something beautiful.

But if what actually happened is, the 'artists' looked at the existing dial stamps, and suggested they flip it 90 degrees and change the paint colour, and then reverse-engineer a backstory: '....ah yeah, um, we saw ripples on a lake and wanted to build a dial based on what we saw...' - that does feel like they are cheating somehow and cheapens the story. Were they 'inspired' to build a dial based on what they saw in nature, or did they already have a dial stamp and were 'inspired' to get more $$$ for it by having a marketing team come up with a different backstory for it?

I suppose the 'seasons' special editions are forgivable. Between 'Shunbun' (pink blossom) and Taisetsu (winter) from the same collection, they are just letting you have the same watch in a different colour. Lots of watch brands come out with a collection where you can pick a colour you prefer. It's fine. But if they are going to say they designed a dial to show what fallen blossom petals look like, and at the same time say they designed a dial to show what fallen snow looks like, with a whole page of 'backstory' for each, you could expect some annoying kid in the store to tell it like it is and say "hey dad, the 'blossom one' is just the 'snow one' in pink, right?"

With some watch brands a limited or special edition helps preserve resale value because there is such restricted supply - if you don't buy it when it comes along, you may never get the chance to get it again. But with GS, as with the hundreds of special variations of Omega's Speedmaster, it doesn't really matter if you don't buy it when it comes along and can never get it again, because there will be another slightly different one along in five minutes, and you'll probably find a different one you like. No need to fight with other customers in line, or bid crazy money, to get that particular variant; there will be plenty of other variants which you'd enjoy just as much.

[Greglaw]

If people truly love that watches I don’t understand all the complaints about floods of limited editions. Just my opinion, but, if you love a watch, and are buying it for the quality, beauty, mechanical marvel, then who cares if there are other limited editions? Companies cannot win, if they produce many of the same, we hear “I don’t want a submariner everyone else is wearing one...” and if they produce limited editions, people complain about too many, as is a common complaint about the speedmaster variations. It makes my head spin.

[kevn00]

yes it does stink they use the same designs in other editions and the same color schemes between seiko and gs. im not sure theyll be changing this anytime soon, so it might be best to consider other brands or even independents.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by kevn00

yes it does stink they use the same designs in other editions and the same color schemes between seiko and gs.

I haven't noticed this at all. GS and Seiko seem very, very different, to my eyes anyway.

Do you have any examples of watches where the designs are the same between GS and Seiko?

[munichblue]

Originally Posted by swish77

I haven't noticed this at all. GS and Seiko seem very, very different, to my eyes anyway.

Do you have any examples of watches where the designs are the same between GS and Seiko?

No, he hasn’t!

[kevn00]

Originally Posted by swish77

I haven't noticed this at all. GS and Seiko seem very, very different, to my eyes anyway.

Do you have any examples of watches where the designs are the same between GS and Seiko?

i guess its just me. i dont remember all the ref numbers. for example theyre doing the green and yellow combos and the blue and yellow combos, especially in their prospex marine master line. there are a few combos with the white dial with the blue second hand. The sharp edge series looks very similar to the gs design, with the the hands, angles on the case, and bracelets. The latest GMT presage series look very similar with the coloring schemes. itll only be a matter of time before they bring out something similar to the 413.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by kevn00

i guess its just me. i dont remember all the ref numbers. for example theyre doing the green and yellow combos and the blue and yellow combos, especially in their prospex marine master line. there are a few combos with the white dial with the blue second hand. The sharp edge series looks very similar to the gs design, with the the hands, angles on the case, and bracelets. The latest GMT presage series look very similar with the coloring schemes. itll only be a matter of time before they bring out something similar to the 413.

Well, I don't see that, but it's all good. Rolex and Tudor use some similar designs and colors, but that doesn't mean they're similar as watches. In fact, I'd argue that GS and Seiko, in general, are much more different than Rolex and Tudor.

[mongrelnomoad]

Anyone familiar with Japan and the Japanese will understand that this deep appreciation of the seasons, the natural world, and the hyper-local is woven into the tapestry of the culture.

Are they making too many of them? Maybe... But when the themes and/or details they're reusing are of this beauty and quality, who cares?

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

Anyone familiar with Japan and the Japanese will understand that this deep appreciation of the seasons, the natural world, and the hyper-local is woven into the tapestry of the culture.

Are they making too many of them? Maybe... But when the themes and/or details they're reusing are of this beauty and quality, who cares?

The main reason I’m such a devoted Grand Seiko fan, is because they imbue their appreciation for nature in their watches - they come alive , especially when compared to the teutonic offerings of the Swiss
I am fearing that they will lose their way a bit by their new marketing strategies ;
With regards to my dial issue - GS has a (reportedly) awesome design department , and they want to justify being in a certain higher price range then Seiko .... so a dial that represents birch trees should stay with that theme ; ( keep the tree theme if they use different colour ways); if they wish to have a dial that represents summer ripples in water .... make a dial template that is unique to that theme ...they should be able to finance that ..... but .... they are on a mission to pump out as many limited and special editions as possible .
This strategy would be acceptable for Seiko however , who operate in a totally different price range .
Ok so I’ve had a glass of wine , maybe I’ll calm down tomorrow .

[Kinnakeet]

Here is an example of GS sharing with Seiko .
Spring drive is manufactured in the same facility that many Seiko watches originate from .( Seiko Epson in Shiojiri)


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[Chute]

It wasn’t until I went to a GS event that I saw the SBGA413 and SBGA415 that I noticed the dials were the same. I asked the GS rep and he said they all came from the same pattern. If you look at the 4 o’clock hour marker, there is a distinct cloud to the left.

It was just a fantasy to think each dial was unique, but I did feel let down and I haven’t purchased either one. I do have an SBGA011 and love that dial more.

The thing that bothers me the most about GS using the same dials for different watches is that they have told me they won’t make watches to order. So if you wanted a snowflake SBGA211 but in steel, that should be easy. Just use the SBGA201 case. Or what if you wanted a champagne dial in the snowflake titanium case? Or even better, why not get a club to vote on a dial and case model and have GS make 30-50 watches that are unique to that club. But they won’t.

So yes it bothers me for two reasons stated above.

[Mifune]

Originally Posted by Kinnakeet

Somethings going on , besides a flooding of limited and special editions...
The lovely new Birch-SLGH005,,,shows a carved vertical pattern suggesting trees... then along comes the Shosho SBGJ249,,,displaying a carved horizontal pattern suggesting summer ripples in a lake....
My eyes are telling me the dial template is the same ... oriented differently .
The same fate has befallen the immensely popular SBGA413- one minute the dial portrays floating cherry blossoms... the SBGA415 has the same pattern in silver-portraying snow encrusted pine trees..... there is also this dial pattern coloured dark blue- now it’s showing a cloudy night sky.....
Here is my issue- by recycling the dial pattens GS is diluting the importance and specialness of the Birch , and the Cherry Blossom pieces.
I will cry a River of tears if they ever mess with the Snowflake dial or the Mount Iwate dial ....
Any way thank you all for reading my little rant ...

GS is a different business model than Rolex... FAR LESS Grand Seikos are produced, primarily by hand, and its a far more limited world wide supply... by orders of magnitude. I understand when you cannibalize your offerings based on not offering repetitious and a year over stabilized model line it might come off as fractured, but they are producing great pieces. the fall out of this is that the models won't gain as much value on the secondary market.

[Cru Jones]

^ accountank2000, that’s a well written post, thanks for that. At the end of the day, I suppose it’s for the customer to believe what they way to believe, and enjoy the watch how they want to enjoy it, but you make many fair points.

[Kinnakeet]

Accountank2000......
YOU NAILED IT !!!!
Thank you so much !

[BigAppleBill]

I think the diversity of its watch dials is part of what make GS so appealing.

[Etschell]

I can't get behind the bracelets or clasps. Just subpar.