Can Rolex AD's order new papers

[eyespy]

I recently purchased what I thought was a 1979 SS DJ from an AD - the 1979 date was worked out from the serial number on the paperwork supplied with the watch.

Wanting to learn more about the model (16220), it's history etc, I did some research into it on the web - the more research I did the more suspicious I became that something was not quite right.

My suspicions were confirmed today after I removed the bracelet to check the case ref and serial number.

The serial number starts F105 which I think dates the manufacture of the watch to between September 2004 and April 2005.

I am happy that the watch is genuine but not so happy that it now has no paperwork. I have not been back to the AD yet so don't know if they have the correct papers somewhere BUT assuming they haven't would they be able to order duplicate papers from Rolex for me?

Thanks all,

Steve.

[HL65]

They can't- sorry.

[Johny]

does the serial on the watch match the serial on the paperwork?

[eyespy]

Originally Posted by Johny

does the serial on the watch match the serial on the paperwork?

No - the serial number on the paperwork is that of a 1979 model whereas the serial number on the watch dates it as a 2004/05 model.

[Johny]

Originally Posted by eyespy

No - the serial number on the paperwork is that of a 1979 model whereas the serial number on the watch dates it as a 2004/05 model.

ok so two conflicting nos. take it back to the shop and let us know what their explanation is. may be just a clerical error by the shop.watches and paperwork get mixed up.

[eyespy]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

They can't- sorry.

In that case, for the same money, which would have been the best deal - a 2004/5 model and no papers or a 1979 model with papers?

Should I be asking the AD for a partial refund or going in and paying them some more ?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by eyespy

In that case, for the same money, which would have been the best deal - a 2004/5 model and no papers or a 1979 model with papers?

Should I be asking the AD for a partial refund or going in and paying them some more ?

I don't know what the "same money" is..

I would say that condition is paramount, regardless of whether it has "paper" or not, and that you should always buy the best possible example of the watch, and not buy whether it has an old out-of-date warranty cert.

However, the larger issue is that you should not be paying 2004 watch value prices for a 1979 era watch. So, if you paid for a 1979 era watch, but now find that you have a 2004 era watch, you should have gotten a very good deal indeed....

[eyespy]

Originally Posted by Tools

.... However, the larger issue is that you should not be paying 2004 watch value prices for a 1979 era watch. So, if you paid for a 1979 era watch, but now find that you have a 2004 era watch, you should have gotten a very good deal indeed....

That's what I wanted to hear

[eyespy]

By the way - here are a couple of pics of the watch in question:




Cheers,

Steve.

[imono]

Originally Posted by eyespy

That's what I wanted to hear

If you do indeed go back to the AD and they found your true 1979 would you be glad to exchange it?
Many would not.
I know I won't.

[Tools]

The idea that there are "papers" that, somehow authenticate or validate a watch and it's pedigree lead to all kinds of frustration for owners who read these ideas and think that they must have such documents.

A collector (a true collector) is interested in every item that may have originally come with a watch, just the way a collector of an old automobile likes to have original paint, engine, and upholstery.. Since these vintage watches and their original accessories are so rare, they can command a premium in value. The idea that a modern watch must be treated similarly is not really a realistic perspective..

The reality is that a Rolex does not have any such certificate of pedigree. Generally the only "paper" associated with a Rolex is a warranty card/cert. A piece of paper that, after the warranty period, is actually useless. Rolex will never issue an out-of-date warranty certificate for a used watch... it just won't happen..

If your watch is authentic, then you can establish your own provenance by taking the watch in to a Rolex Service Center and have it properly overhauled. They will issue a new warranty, in your name, and with proper matching serial numbers, that demonstrate that the watch has been well maintained....

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Tools

The idea that there are "papers" that, somehow authenticate or validate a watch and it's pedigree lead to all kinds of frustration for owners who read these ideas and think that they must have such documents.

A collector (a true collector) is interested in every item that may have originally come with a watch, just the way a collector of an old automobile likes to have original paint, engine, and upholstery.. Since these vintage watches and their original accessories are so rare, they can command a premium in value. The idea that a modern watch must be treated similarly is not really a realistic perspective..

The reality is that a Rolex does not have any such certificate of pedigree. Generally the only "paper" associated with a Rolex is a warranty card/cert. A piece of paper that, after the warranty period, is actually useless. Rolex will never issue an out-of-date warranty certificate for a used watch... it just won't happen..

If your watch is authentic, then you can establish your own provenance by taking the watch in to a Rolex Service Center and have it properly overhauled. They will issue a new warranty, in your name, and with proper matching serial numbers, that demonstrate that the watch has been well maintained....

Exactly- well said Larry!

[rockmastermike]

Originally Posted by Tools

The idea that there are "papers" that, somehow authenticate or validate a watch and it's pedigree lead to all kinds of frustration for owners who read these ideas and think that they must have such documents.

A collector (a true collector) is interested in every item that may have originally come with a watch, just the way a collector of an old automobile likes to have original paint, engine, and upholstery.. Since these vintage watches and their original accessories are so rare, they can command a premium in value. The idea that a modern watch must be treated similarly is not really a realistic perspective..

The reality is that a Rolex does not have any such certificate of pedigree. Generally the only "paper" associated with a Rolex is a warranty card/cert. A piece of paper that, after the warranty period, is actually useless. Rolex will never issue an out-of-date warranty certificate for a used watch... it just won't happen..

If your watch is authentic, then you can establish your own provenance by taking the watch in to a Rolex Service Center and have it properly overhauled. They will issue a new warranty, in your name, and with proper matching serial numbers, that demonstrate that the watch has been well maintained....

interesting - I am starting to look into my first Rolex and have eliminated many potential candidates due to no "original papers" although I have seen a few with new "service" papers. I did not think about having AD service papers to establish provenance is just as good.

Question: is an AD just as good at this as going thru RSC directly - any different paperwork, any different work done?

thanks for the perspective, mate

[gqllc]

I have bought many of Rolex without papers. I do make sure that everything checks out (meaning the watch is not a replica). Rolex service papers do add provenance. I prefer complete sets but I don't shy away from watches with no papers..I buy the seller and the condition

[gqllc]

I also feel if you paid 1979 prices for a F series watch you got a steal...won't be surprised if the AD was not happy about it if they thought it was a 1979

[pawnshopkiller]

Originally Posted by Tools

The idea that there are "papers" that, somehow authenticate or validate a watch and it's pedigree lead to all kinds of frustration for owners who read these ideas and think that they must have such documents.

A collector (a true collector) is interested in every item that may have originally come with a watch, just the way a collector of an old automobile likes to have original paint, engine, and upholstery.. Since these vintage watches and their original accessories are so rare, they can command a premium in value. The idea that a modern watch must be treated similarly is not really a realistic perspective..

The reality is that a Rolex does not have any such certificate of pedigree. Generally the only "paper" associated with a Rolex is a warranty card/cert. A piece of paper that, after the warranty period, is actually useless. Rolex will never issue an out-of-date warranty certificate for a used watch... it just won't happen..

If your watch is authentic, then you can establish your own provenance by taking the watch in to a Rolex Service Center and have it properly overhauled. They will issue a new warranty, in your name, and with proper matching serial numbers, that demonstrate that the watch has been well maintained....

:c lap::cla p:

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Tools

The idea that there are "papers" that, somehow authenticate or validate a watch and it's pedigree lead to all kinds of frustration for owners who read these ideas and think that they must have such documents.

A collector (a true collector) is interested in every item that may have originally come with a watch, just the way a collector of an old automobile likes to have original paint, engine, and upholstery.. Since these vintage watches and their original accessories are so rare, they can command a premium in value. The idea that a modern watch must be treated similarly is not really a realistic perspective..

The reality is that a Rolex does not have any such certificate of pedigree. Generally the only "paper" associated with a Rolex is a warranty card/cert. A piece of paper that, after the warranty period, is actually useless. Rolex will never issue an out-of-date warranty certificate for a used watch... it just won't happen..

If your watch is authentic, then you can establish your own provenance by taking the watch in to a Rolex Service Center and have it properly overhauled. They will issue a new warranty, in your name, and with proper matching serial numbers, that demonstrate that the watch has been well maintained....

X With Larry afraid the Internet and the many Roles myths put far too much enthuses on these so called papers.These so called papers like Larry and myself have stated many times are just that, on any modern day Roles a two year warranty and thats it.And once it has expired its just a bit of paper and in reality does not prove a genuine watch.I wonder what we do with other warranty papers for the many products in the market today.Do we lock them in a safe like if they are very valuable items I would doubt it.Because after any warrant period they are just that a bit of paper,always buy the watch not a bit of paper or the packaging box .Over the many years being around Rolex watches I have seen fake papers that would easily fool the average todays WIS.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by padi56

X With Larry afraid the Internet and the many Roles myths put far too much enthuses on these so called papers.These so called papers like Larry and myself have stated many times are just that, on any modern day Roles a two year warranty and thats it.And once it has expired its just a bit of paper and in reality does not prove a genuine watch.I wonder what we do with other warranty papers for the many products in the market today.Do we lock them in a safe like if they are very valuable items I would doubt it.Because after any warrant period they are just that a bit of paper,always buy the watch not a bit of paper or the packaging box .Over the many years being around Rolex watches I have seen fake papers that would easily fool the average todays WIS.

Sorry, but I have to disagree!

I never buy watches WITHOUT papers.

The presence or absence of papers (particularly the warranty & COA) shows, how careful the previous owner was with his watch and with his property.

It also gives me an indicator, that the watch is not stolen! Stolen watches seldom come with papers.
I have heard of gangs in the Philippines, who pay hookers to k.o. their "customers" - and farewell Rolex!

These watches never come with papers!

I had burglars in my house. They took my watches, but did not take the papers.
One watch showed up on ebay later. I have received my watch back instantly because I was able to prove, that I am the legal owner of it and the "seller" who purchased it without papers, is out of the watch and the money, that he was paying for it.

Don't get me wrong: I don't say, that papers give you 100% safety but to an expensive watch, the presence of the corresponding papers is a MUST to me and the value of the COA does definitely NOT end after the warranty period. Like I've said, it can be VERY valuable after that time!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by bondtoys.de

Sorry, but I have to disagree!

I never buy watches WITHOUT papers.

The presence or absence of papers (particularly the warranty & COA) shows, how careful the previous owner was with his watch and with his property.

It also gives me an indicator, that the watch is not stolen! Stolen watches seldom come with papers.
I have heard of gangs in the Philippines, who pay hookers to k.o. their "customers" - and farewell Rolex!

These watches never come with papers!

I had burglars in my house. They took my watches, but did not take the papers.
One watch showed up on ebay later. I have received my watch back instantly because I was able to prove, that I am the legal owner of it and the "seller" who purchased it without papers, is out of the watch and the money, that he was paying for it.

Don't get me wrong: I don't say, that papers give you 100% safety but to an expensive watch, the presence of the corresponding papers is a MUST to me and the value of the COA does definitely NOT end after the warranty period. Like I've said, it can be VERY valuable after that time!

Well I don't think that just if someone has kept a bit of paper it means he has necessarily looked after the watch.Now say you had the choice of two 10 years old subs.The one has its original papers but no service history,the other has no original out of date warranty paper.But has recent RSC service papers with a current two year warranty which one would you choose.

[dnagwhogas]

Originally Posted by bondtoys.de

I have heard of gangs in the Philippines, who pay hookers to k.o. their "customers" - and farewell Rolex!

These watches never come with papers!

Hmmmm interesting. First time I've heard of this. Good thing I get my hookers from....... nevermind.

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by bondtoys.de

Sorry, but I have to disagree!

I never buy watches WITHOUT papers.

The presence or absence of papers (particularly the warranty & COA) shows, how careful the previous owner was with his watch and with his property.

It also gives me an indicator, that the watch is not stolen! Stolen watches seldom come with papers.
I have heard of gangs in the Philippines, who pay hookers to k.o. their "customers" - and farewell Rolex!

These watches never come with papers!

I had burglars in my house. They took my watches, but did not take the papers.
One watch showed up on ebay later. I have received my watch back instantly because I was able to prove, that I am the legal owner of it and the "seller" who purchased it without papers, is out of the watch and the money, that he was paying for it.

Don't get me wrong: I don't say, that papers give you 100% safety but to an expensive watch, the presence of the corresponding papers is a MUST to me and the value of the COA does definitely NOT end after the warranty period. Like I've said, it can be VERY valuable after that time!

I agree 100%. Very well stated. If you have papers that match the watch the chance of it being stolen are greatly reduced.

[Metlin]

On this topic, can authorized dealers or service centers validate the authenticity of a Rolex? I apologize if this question has been answered before!

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by bondtoys.de

Sorry, but I have to disagree!

I never buy watches WITHOUT papers.

The presence or absence of papers (particularly the warranty & COA) shows, how careful the previous owner was with his watch and with his property.

It also gives me an indicator, that the watch is not stolen! Stolen watches seldom come with papers.
I have heard of gangs in the Philippines, who pay hookers to k.o. their "customers" - and farewell Rolex!

These watches never come with papers!

I had burglars in my house. They took my watches, but did not take the papers.
One watch showed up on ebay later. I have received my watch back instantly because I was able to prove, that I am the legal owner of it and the "seller" who purchased it without papers, is out of the watch and the money, that he was paying for it.

Don't get me wrong: I don't say, that papers give you 100% safety but to an expensive watch, the presence of the corresponding papers is a MUST to me and the value of the COA does definitely NOT end after the warranty period. Like I've said, it can be VERY valuable after that time!

As somebody who goes to watch shows in Germany often I can tell you the above statement is very true in certain parts of the world. It is very hard to sell a watch without papers for fair money. No papers means discount or no sale in Germany. Even on vintage watches they ask for papers.

[learningtofly]

Originally Posted by Tools

The idea that there are "papers" that, somehow authenticate or validate a watch and it's pedigree lead to all kinds of frustration for owners who read these ideas and think that they must have such documents.

A collector (a true collector) is interested in every item that may have originally come with a watch, just the way a collector of an old automobile likes to have original paint, engine, and upholstery.. Since these vintage watches and their original accessories are so rare, they can command a premium in value. The idea that a modern watch must be treated similarly is not really a realistic perspective..

The reality is that a Rolex does not have any such certificate of pedigree. Generally the only "paper" associated with a Rolex is a warranty card/cert. A piece of paper that, after the warranty period, is actually useless. Rolex will never issue an out-of-date warranty certificate for a used watch... it just won't happen..

If your watch is authentic, then you can establish your own provenance by taking the watch in to a Rolex Service Center and have it properly overhauled. They will issue a new warranty, in your name, and with proper matching serial numbers, that demonstrate that the watch has been well maintained....

Sensible advice, although the cheaper route would surely be to ask for a regulation as opposed to a full service? (This on the basis that the motivation is simply the paperwork.)

[eyespy]

Thanks for all the advice guys

Weighing everything up I think I've come out of this with a very good deal. I'll ask the AD if they have the correct paperwork floating around somewhere but won't be bothered if they don't.

The watch is 7 years old (rather than the 32 years I first thought it was) - it's probably due a service so I'll send it in sometime and get it authenticated that way.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Michael M.]

Nope.

[pawnshopkiller]

Wouldn't an F series have the new end pieces?

[gqllc]

Wouldn't the new end pieces go with the hidden clasp bracelet? I have a K series that looks like the one in the picture

[eyespy]

Originally Posted by pawnshopkiller

Wouldn't an F series have the new end pieces?

I think that would be a D series from April 2005 on see here (scroll down) ---and --- here

Here's looking between my lugs

[gqllc]

I would figure 2004...you have the engine turned bezel and I figure you have the regular clasp not the hidden clasp