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stusrt · 25 January 2012, 12:17 AM

I just sold a watch to fund the purchase of a Panerai. Last time I bought one was about 3 years ago - had to order it from an out-of-state AD, and didn't get any discount at all.

I was at the AD Sunday and was debating between the 90 and 347. But before making that big of a purchase (yes, $8k - $11k is a lot of money to me) -
I went home see what these are selling for. I am interested in almost any 44mm Lumnior with a power indicator. Especially the 8-day

WOW!
the only sale of a 90 was a 3 month old one for $5,200
171 for under $5k
and even my dream Panerai Monopulsante - went for under $12k!!
and 270 for $10k
I mean these prices are almost half off!!

eBay was flooded with 347 models they can't give away - I noticed most didn't even have an best offers submitted.

I really want one with power reserve indicator - and was looking at the 90 as being the only one in my price range.

Am I just chasing after un-popular models? Or is this a trend with all the Luminors? Is January a bad month for watch sales?

It's good news for me - I can afford 2 now - or even the models that MSRP for $20k

But reading these treads in the Panerai section here, I see a lot of folks with way more expertise and interest in Panerai then me - so I have to ask...
What the heck happend to Panerai resale since last time I was in the market ?!?!??!
This is a VERY big deal to me. I am lucky that I can afford Panerai/Rolex - but I can't afford to lose half my investment if I'm in a pinch someday.

RedBaronF2001 · 25 January 2012, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stusrt

What the heck happend to Panerai resale since last time I was in the market ?!?!??!
This is a VERY big deal to me. I am lucky that I can afford Panerai/Rolex - but I can't afford to lose half my investment if I'm in a pinch someday.

First ... no watch is an investment.

Second, Panerai like other brands have flooded the market and the automatic non-historic models are not that "hot" as dictated by the market and the forums. They are usually for sale at a significant discount used. This should come as no surprise.

The only Panerais holding steady on the secondary market are the SEs, LEs, and currently hard to get "hot" watches.

Having said all of this ... there are some bargains to be had right now if you don't mind a pre-owned watch.

stusrt · 25 January 2012, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBaronF2001

First ... no watch is an investment.
.

I agree RedBaron - you're not going to MAKE money off a watch, unless you're a dealer.
However, I feel much more comfortable buying a Rolex SUB from the AD for $8k, knowing that I'm going to get most of my money back if I ever had to (or wanted to upgrade in the future).

But losing half the value of something as soon as you walk out the door is something I don't like. That's for women's jewelery and cars.

I have to agree with others that the market is flooded now - at least for the models I'm interested in (including in-house 10 day PR)

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Panerai and will be adding another to my collection - I just was blown away with what has happened to the Panerai market since I was last shopping for one.

p_mcgee · 25 January 2012, 01:05 AM

I agree that Panerai resale seems to be a little soft currently, at least for the stock models. I wanted a new one, but there was too much disconnect between what the AD was asking and the prices I saw for LNIB on the forums.

My 2 examples: 233 was $15.5K from the AD, <$12K from trusted sellers, and under $10K LNIB on the forums. The AD wanted $6,900 for a 177 but I was able to find BNIB on the forums for under $5K.

I'm sure its a different story for some of the hot models like the 390 (want one), 372 (don't), etc.

eric23 · 25 January 2012, 01:27 AM

Most models seem to go for 20%-30% off list list, I would say that is good resale. I am sure most people get 10% list from there local AD.

B. Doggy · 25 January 2012, 02:19 AM

The models you're looking at aren't the most popular as a whole.

drtooth73 · 25 January 2012, 02:24 AM

bnib 90 with stickers for $5800 total right next door to you

Turkeyboy · 25 January 2012, 02:30 AM

Regardless of how much you like a specific model, if its not a popular model, the price is just not going to hold up.

Panerai is releasing new models at a feverish pace and everyone wants the latest and greatest, leaving older models behind in the dust, when it comes to resale value,.

tonydaniel · 25 January 2012, 02:49 AM

I know I'm going to lose a little when I eventually sell for an upgrade or different model. I don't think I'll lose half, but whatever I lose, it's worth it to me to enjoy the watch for a few years.

Cru Jones · 25 January 2012, 03:05 AM

as with any brand, certain models are going to be softer than others. as a whole, though, panerai is well known for being among the best for holding value (some say close to rolex as a whole).

MP5 · 25 January 2012, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

as with any brand, certain models are going to be softer than others. as a whole, though, panerai is well known for being among the best for holding value (some say close to rolex as a whole).

I have a feeling that's been getting further from the truth and prices even in the historic line have been trending away for some time. Panerai has pretty much done to to themselves with all the boutique models, the 318 fiasco, the tons of new undesirable pieces that bring the whole brand down, and the fake patina trend that has turned it into a near joke. After a decade of loyal pamdom, I am all but done.

RedBaronF2001 · 25 January 2012, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP5

I have a feeling that's been getting further from the truth and prices even in the historic line have been trending away for some time. Panerai has pretty much done to to themselves with all the boutique models, the 318 fiasco, the tons of new undesirable pieces that bring the whole brand down, and the fake patina trend that has turned it into a near joke. After a decade of loyal pamdom, I am all but done.

+1.

They're going the way of Hublot unfortunately ...

I was drawn to the brand's simple designs and catalog of offerings, but now they're saturating the market with an overwhelming selection.

B. Doggy · 25 January 2012, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP5

I have a feeling that's been getting further from the truth and prices even in the historic line have been trending away for some time. Panerai has pretty much done to to themselves with all the boutique models, the 318 fiasco, the tons of new undesirable pieces that bring the whole brand down, and the fake patina trend that has turned it into a near joke. After a decade of loyal pamdom, I am all but done.

Just to clarify- It's not faux patina, it's Ecru. I actually think it's quite pleasant and understated. Gives a PAM a great look IMHO.

stusrt · 31 January 2012, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP5

I have a feeling that's been getting further from the truth and prices even in the historic line have been trending away for some time. Panerai has pretty much done to to themselves with all the boutique models, the 318 fiasco, the tons of new undesirable pieces that bring the whole brand down, and the fake patina trend that has turned it into a near joke. After a decade of loyal pamdom, I am all but done.

I just caught this - what is the 318 fiasco?

BTW- couldn't believe my luck, another 317 came up on auction and shot past my $15k very quickly...
better get my feet back on the ground and start looking at the models in my class again...

RedBaronF2001 · 31 January 2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stusrt

I just caught this - what is the 318 fiasco?

The 318 is a boutique only model (NYC) and it's effectively a 000 with a pretty caseback. One unlucky owner had the pleasure of discovering a very poorly finished movement when having the case opened that was an embarrassment to the owner and to Officine Panerai. I believe Panerai rectified the issue, but who knows how many other movements left their manufacturing facility this way.

You can do a quick search to see photos of the movement.

stusrt · 25 January 2012, 06:22 AM

all this might be a mute point....
turns out that my grail Panerai is up on no-reserve auction!!!!!!
Always assumed it was completely out of my reach -
but now I'm going to try and get it!!!

I don't mind paying what I have to to win an auction, because I always know there is one sucker out there willing to pay $100 less then I did!!

B. Doggy · 26 January 2012, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stusrt

all this might be a mute point....
turns out that my grail Panerai is up on no-reserve auction!!!!!!
Always assumed it was completely out of my reach -
but now I'm going to try and get it!!!

I don't mind paying what I have to to win an auction, because I always know there is one sucker out there willing to pay $100 less then I did!!

Well good luck and BE CAREFUL on fleabay!

stusrt · 26 January 2012, 03:10 AM

OK B.Doggy -
I get the hint you don't like ebay -
so were do you suggest buying pre-owned Panerai's?
Or even new ones when the AD's want full price?

RedBaronF2001 · 26 January 2012, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stusrt

OK B.Doggy -
I get the hint you don't like ebay -
so were do you suggest buying pre-owned Panerai's?
Or even new ones when the AD's want full price?

There are some great pre-owned and grey market sellers here on TRF and on other fora. PM if you need some names.

stusrt · 27 January 2012, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBaronF2001

There are some great pre-owned and grey market sellers here on TRF and on other fora. PM if you need some names.

I have bought here on TRF - and eBay - and straight from dealers I know.

every dealer I've seen here is also on eBay - so I don't understand the difference - both sites seem to have trusted sellers - and others that I don't fell safe buying from.

mfer · 26 January 2012, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stusrt

OK B.Doggy -
I get the hint you don't like ebay -
so were do you suggest buying pre-owned Panerai's?
Or even new ones when the AD's want full price?

Most (not all) of the powersellers on ebay have their own sites, etc where they sell watches. You'll get better prices since they won't be using paypal and paying ebay fees. Get a used on here on TRF, or p.com or TZ. Same story anywhere though, do your homework.

Depending on what model you want, there are plenty of AD's that'll discount.

HDHNTER · 26 January 2012, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stusrt

OK B.Doggy -
I get the hint you don't like ebay -
so were do you suggest buying pre-owned Panerai's?
Or even new ones when the AD's want full price?

There are several trusted sellers here that I would not hesitate to buy from.
For me personally, I played the AD game for my first 4.....these days when I get the itch for something new there is but one name that immediately comes to mind... DavidSW. There's a reason everyone that deals with him speaks so highly of him. Just my .02

Cru Jones · 26 January 2012, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDHNTER

one name that immediately comes to mind... DavidSW. There's a reason everyone that deals with him raves about him. Just my .02

htc8p · 26 January 2012, 12:39 PM

i agree that panerai has lost its exclusivity. that the reason im not looking for another one. i just cherishing the moment in time that i got a pam when it was at the height of its glory.

kilyung · 26 January 2012, 01:00 PM

Simple supply and demand right? Panerai pumps out more models and existing watches get recycled, supply exceeds demand and costs drop. Some of the really limited editions are still pretty hefty though. Unlike Rolex where demand generally will exceed supply, Panerai owners are a smaller (if avid) group.

My first Panerai was a 111 and few had a Panerai back then. Now it seems like the brand is very mainstream - heck it's even on a VzW commercial (R2D2 one)! So I sold nearly everything... 111, 005, 183, 000, 196... except my 312 (which I'm contemplating trading for a 233K). The onslaught of LE/SE and 47+mm watches has turned me off the brand. I'll always keep a single watch to satisfy my strap fetish but I'm done.

RedBaronF2001 · 27 January 2012, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilyung

My first Panerai was a 111 and few had a Panerai back then. Now it seems like the brand is very mainstream - heck it's even on a VzW commercial (R2D2 one)! So I sold nearly everything... 111, 005, 183, 000, 196... except my 312 (which I'm contemplating trading for a 233K). The onslaught of LE/SE and 47+mm watches has turned me off the brand. I'll always keep a single watch to satisfy my strap fetish but I'm done.

I feel exactly the same way. I'm suffering from LE/SE/Ecru burnout. Heck, I'm contemplating "upgrading" my 312 to the 233 as well. However, I love the simple dial of the 312.

tonydaniel · 26 January 2012, 01:08 PM

lol this thread is pathetic.

htc8p · 26 January 2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonydaniel

lol this thread is pathetic.

some advice. if you have nothing nice to say dont say anything at all. some people are talking here.

tonydaniel · 26 January 2012, 01:42 PM

stusrt · 27 January 2012, 05:36 AM

FYI -
Perhaps I was a little foolish thinking I was going to get a 317 for $15k -
it sold for $17k -
it was VERY VERY tough to stick to my budget

SOOOOOOO CLOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure another will pop up in a year or two or ten....

25 January 2012, 12:17 AM	#1
stusrt "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Motor City Watch: too many Posts: 1,114	what the heck happened to Panerai resale? I just sold a watch to fund the purchase of a Panerai. Last time I bought one was about 3 years ago - had to order it from an out-of-state AD, and didn't get any discount at all. I was at the AD Sunday and was debating between the 90 and 347. But before making that big of a purchase (yes, $8k - $11k is a lot of money to me) - I went home see what these are selling for. I am interested in almost any 44mm Lumnior with a power indicator. Especially the 8-day WOW! the only sale of a 90 was a 3 month old one for $5,200 171 for under $5k and even my dream Panerai Monopulsante - went for under $12k!! and 270 for $10k I mean these prices are almost half off!! eBay was flooded with 347 models they can't give away - I noticed most didn't even have an best offers submitted. I really want one with power reserve indicator - and was looking at the 90 as being the only one in my price range. Am I just chasing after un-popular models? Or is this a trend with all the Luminors? Is January a bad month for watch sales? It's good news for me - I can afford 2 now - or even the models that MSRP for $20k But reading these treads in the Panerai section here, I see a lot of folks with way more expertise and interest in Panerai then me - so I have to ask... What the heck happend to Panerai resale since last time I was in the market ?!?!??! This is a VERY big deal to me. I am lucky that I can afford Panerai/Rolex - but I can't afford to lose half my investment if I'm in a pinch someday.

25 January 2012, 02:19 AM	#6
B. Doggy "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Real Name: Bryan Location: Oregon Posts: 7,399	The models you're looking at aren't the most popular as a whole. __________________ Rolex / Panerai / Omega

25 January 2012, 01:05 AM	#4
p_mcgee "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,150	I agree that Panerai resale seems to be a little soft currently, at least for the stock models. I wanted a new one, but there was too much disconnect between what the AD was asking and the prices I saw for LNIB on the forums. My 2 examples: 233 was $15.5K from the AD, <$12K from trusted sellers, and under $10K LNIB on the forums. The AD wanted $6,900 for a 177 but I was able to find BNIB on the forums for under $5K. I'm sure its a different story for some of the hot models like the 390 (want one), 372 (don't), etc.

25 January 2012, 01:27 AM	#5
eric23 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: Eric Location: Calgary Posts: 9,595	Most models seem to go for 20%-30% off list list, I would say that is good resale. I am sure most people get 10% list from there local AD.

25 January 2012, 02:24 AM	#7
drtooth73 Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: W. Stutman Location: Motor City Watch: TT GMT IIC Posts: 2,223	bnib 90 with stickers for $5800 total right next door to you

25 January 2012, 02:30 AM	#8
Turkeyboy Banned Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 166	Regardless of how much you like a specific model, if its not a popular model, the price is just not going to hold up. Panerai is releasing new models at a feverish pace and everyone wants the latest and greatest, leaving older models behind in the dust, when it comes to resale value,.

25 January 2012, 02:49 AM	#9
tonydaniel Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lake Forest Posts: 19	I know I'm going to lose a little when I eventually sell for an upgrade or different model. I don't think I'll lose half, but whatever I lose, it's worth it to me to enjoy the watch for a few years.

25 January 2012, 03:05 AM	#10
Cru Jones 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Paris, France Posts: 35,253	as with any brand, certain models are going to be softer than others. as a whole, though, panerai is well known for being among the best for holding value (some say close to rolex as a whole).

25 January 2012, 06:22 AM	#16
stusrt "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Motor City Watch: too many Posts: 1,114	all this might be a mute point.... turns out that my grail Panerai is up on no-reserve auction!!!!!! Always assumed it was completely out of my reach - but now I'm going to try and get it!!! I don't mind paying what I have to to win an auction, because I always know there is one sucker out there willing to pay $100 less then I did!!

26 January 2012, 03:10 AM	#18
stusrt "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Motor City Watch: too many Posts: 1,114	OK B.Doggy - I get the hint you don't like ebay - so were do you suggest buying pre-owned Panerai's? Or even new ones when the AD's want full price?

26 January 2012, 12:39 PM	#24
htc8p "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Bert Location: philippines Watch: 116710 ln Posts: 3,472	i agree that panerai has lost its exclusivity. that the reason im not looking for another one. i just cherishing the moment in time that i got a pam when it was at the height of its glory.

26 January 2012, 01:00 PM	#25
kilyung 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cave Watch: Sundial Posts: 33,940	Simple supply and demand right? Panerai pumps out more models and existing watches get recycled, supply exceeds demand and costs drop. Some of the really limited editions are still pretty hefty though. Unlike Rolex where demand generally will exceed supply, Panerai owners are a smaller (if avid) group. My first Panerai was a 111 and few had a Panerai back then. Now it seems like the brand is very mainstream - heck it's even on a VzW commercial (R2D2 one)! So I sold nearly everything... 111, 005, 183, 000, 196... except my 312 (which I'm contemplating trading for a 233K). The onslaught of LE/SE and 47+mm watches has turned me off the brand. I'll always keep a single watch to satisfy my strap fetish but I'm done.

26 January 2012, 01:08 PM	#27
tonydaniel Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lake Forest Posts: 19	lol this thread is pathetic.

26 January 2012, 01:42 PM	#29
tonydaniel Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lake Forest Posts: 19

27 January 2012, 05:36 AM	#30
stusrt "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Motor City Watch: too many Posts: 1,114	FYI - Perhaps I was a little foolish thinking I was going to get a 317 for $15k - it sold for $17k - it was VERY VERY tough to stick to my budget SOOOOOOO CLOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure another will pop up in a year or two or ten....

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