fake or real?

[FNFZ4]

seller asking 4400? what you guys think of the price and the watch? look real in my eyes

[GradyPhilpott]

I find this one to be tricky.

In most aspects, it looks good, but in others it's questionable.

Despite the display of booklets, boxes, and such, the pictures don't really show some of the features that I personally look for when trying to judge a fake.

Offhand, the hour hand doesn't look right. The coronet on the dial looks slightly off. The crown looks over-sized. The coronet on the crown is blown out enough to make it hard to see. The coronet on the clasp is not clearly visible.

These observations may be accurate, but they may be artifacts of pictures that are less than optimal.

These are the things that make it hard for me to tell, but I'm sure that we have experts who will be able to judge more quickly and accurately.

[train-time]

Engraved rehaut with lug holes and non-SEL bracelet

I don't think so

[FNFZ4]

Originally Posted by Edward Arthur

Engraved rehaut with lug holes and non-SEL bracelet

I don't think so

i think with the 14060 they did retain the lug holes if im not mistaken... could you please tell me what is SEL stand for?

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by Edward Arthur

Engraved rehaut with lug holes and non-SEL bracelet

I don't think so

I agree - I don't think so!



Wait a minute - it's a ND Sub. Let me look some more.

After further review - the winding crown looks too big.

[FNFZ4]

you have sharp eye i didnt notice those.. but now you point it out the crown does seem a bit big? insnt it?

[train-time]

My mistake; first look I thought it was a 16610, but being a 14060 it would have lug holes and a non SEL (Solid End Links) bracelet and later versions did have engraving on the rehaut. Sorry

[FNFZ4]

Originally Posted by Edward Arthur

My mistake; first look I thought it was a 16610, but being a 14060 it would have lug holes and a non SEL (Solid End Links) bracelet and later versions did have engraving on the rehaut. Sorry

no worries man... this is a V serial... my mistake not enough info...

so what do you think? fake? its a damn good one if it is isnt it?

[FNFZ4]

This one is a T serial... 1996 i think looks fake to me

[train-time]

It looks OK to me. You have to buy the seller, then the watch. This seller has over 32,000 100% positive feedback. My money would go with the seller!

[FNFZ4]

Originally Posted by Edward Arthur

It looks OK to me. You have to buy the seller, then the watch. This seller has over 32,000 100% positive feedback. My money would go with the seller!

true but some have complaints with him not using real rolex parts here in the forums... so im reluctant...

[train-time]

I just did a search and found one post on Trent Crowley of Astor Live and it was generally favorable and it appears they stand behind their products. Not a lot of negatives on the net either.

[FNFZ4]

I guess the asking price seems fair. What do you think

[FNFZ4]

How about the t serial thats from a diffetent seller

[Fredrik]

Isn't there supposed to be an indentation in the clasp to be able to flip up the safety clasp on the first watch? It seems to be missing this and I have a vague recollection of this being common among fakes. And the crown looks too big...

[train-time]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Isn't there supposed to be an indentation in the clasp to be able to flip up the safety clasp on the first watch? It seems to be missing this and I have a vague recollection of this being common among fakes. And the crown looks too big...

Correct, but it's extremely subtle and from certain angles it's very difficult to see the indentation.

[FNFZ4]

youre right.... any comment on the second watch guys? that one is different.and the serial is T

[GradyPhilpott]

I'm sticking my neck out and saying that the OP watch is fake.

The pictures are the first clue, because they are craftily posed.

The coronet on the dial is consistent with other counterfeits I've tracked down on the internet.

The coronet on the crown is blown out enough to question, but it isn't consistent with the 14060M that I'm wearing on my wrist right now, so that's my rationale.

[nowzen]

I am not an expert like those above but I see no problems with this watch.

I would not describe the only picture of the crown as 'blown out' - the focus point is on the 2nd link so the crown area is in soft focus. I see no problem with the hour hand.

I cannot even see the 'suspect' coronet in these shots.
Nor do I find the shots 'craftily posed'.

The price sounds fair... maybe slightly high compared to sellers here.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by nowzen

I am not an expert like those above but I see no problems with this watch.

I would not describe the only picture of the crown as 'blown out'....

Bear in mind that I'm comparing the pictured watch to my own 14060M.

"Blown-out" means that the exposure is so bright that no details appear in the blown-out area. Of the details that are not blown-out, the coronet looks suspect.

It is good to understand the terms used before dismissing them.

[archeophoto]

Well, we'll see. I just bought this watch. I should have it next week and I will bring it to an AD to get authenticated. I can't see what is suspect on this watch, maybe you can elaborate what you think is suspect on the coronet?
Also I would like to know why you think the hour hand is suspect.
The seller has over 32000 positive feedback and seems to be well regarded even with the regular sellers here on the forum. I was assured by the seller the watch is 100% authentic.

I hope you are wrong!

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Bear in mind that I'm comparing the pictured watch to my own 14060M.

"Blown-out" means that the exposure is so bright that no details appear in the blown-out area. Of the details that are not blown-out, the coronet looks suspect.

It is good to understand the terms used before dismissing them.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by archeophoto

I hope you are wrong!

I hope I am, too.

I researched this for hours before I came down on the side of it being fake.

The coronet on the dial has a very round hole at the bottom. I found other counterfeits with the same type hole and I compared it with my own, understanding that the coronets have changed through the years.

Also the balls on the tines of the coronet on the crown appear to be too large, however, the photograph does not depict the coronet well.

I'm really pulling for you, though.

I'd never prefer to be correct over an issue that would harm someone else.

[archeophoto]

Check the first photo and compare it with photo 9. The hole in the Coronet appears slightly more oval in photo 9 compared to photo 1.
Their camera is aweful.

Look at this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...#ht_5611wt_940

Same seller. Same camera. Same distortions. The crown looks huge, just like the one in the 14060m photos. I don't think a reputable seller would list two fakes at once.

It's amazing. They sell $250.000 watches and photograph them with a $40 camera.

At any rate, should you be right and it's a fake, they will get an earful.

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I hope I am, too.

I researched this for hours before I came down on the side of it being fake.

The coronet on the dial has a very round hole at the bottom. I found other counterfeits with the same type hole and I compared it with my own, understanding that the coronets have changed through the years.

Also the balls on the tines of the coronet on the crown appear to be too large, however, the photograph does not depict the coronet well.

I'm really pulling for you, though.

I'd never prefer to be correct over an issue that would harm someone else.

[nowzen]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Bear in mind that I'm comparing the pictured watch to my own 14060M.

"Blown-out" means that the exposure is so bright that no details appear in the blown-out area. Of the details that are not blown-out, the coronet looks suspect.

It is good to understand the terms used before dismissing them.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound 'dismissive'. Our retouch guys in our television production and design studio in Toronto used the term 'blown out' in reference to the purposeful removal of something from the image... probably derived from the old days of photoretouching by airbrush.

I now understand you are using it in the flash photography sense. I presumed the former 'retouched' sense since you mentioned the pictures looked 'craftily composed' when to me they look like lousy photography.

[Rjwareagle]

Astor is the seller I think, they sell alot of watches. Looks good to me

[archeophoto]

Some more observations: I'm a noob if it comes to watches, but photos and pictures are my field of expertise.
The camera used to photograph the watch is of poor quality. You can always tell by the "bleed" (the white bleeds into the black) in high contrast areas. The lens used is poor. The distortions are outrageous, also because the photographer used the wideangle setting. That's why the crown looks big. If you look closer you will find the number 20 on the bezel looks about 20% bigger then the 50. That's lens distortion.

But again we will see next week.

In this case I bought the seller... I hope I was right

[FNFZ4]

the watch looks authentic. but i think like what springer said with his complains with he store that they use non rolex parts. this jives with the crown being too big. i walked away when he said that this does not have its papers and that he does not know if it was serviced. still 4250 insnt a bad price.

[archeophoto]

The ad states "ALL ORIGINAL", so it better be. I can't wait to get it now. It's going to be interesting opening the box and bring it to the AD for a look over. This is my first Rolex and a LOOONNNGGG time savings. I think $4250 is a good price for a 2008. Man I hope Grady is wrong...

Originally Posted by FNFZ4

the watch looks authentic. but i think like what springer said with his complains with he store that they use non rolex parts. this jives with the crown being too big. i walked away when he said that this does not have its papers and that he does not know if it was serviced. still 4250 insnt a bad price.

[Andad]

Loooks authentic to me.

[GradyPhilpott]

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI....#ht_5611wt_940

I'm driving myself nuts here and I may find myself banished for my lack of acumen, but the watch listed above looks like a fake to me too.

As always, I bow to those who are more knowledgeable than myself, as I'm here to learn, but that is my sincere impression.

I wish the usual experts would show up and put these matters to rest.

I just hope you're right for your sake.

Keep up posted.