Any FBI, NSA or Secret Service Agents on TRF?

[joeychitwood]

I posted this story on another thread and thought perhaps someone here at TRF might have some insight, as my family has come up blank in researching this question:

My father served in the Army in Korea in the Finance Corps. Disbursing officers of the Finance Corps acted as agents of the US Treasury. After the war, my dad graduated from Concordia College in Minnesota and moved with my mom to Denver, where he got a Masters in Finance at DU. At the same time, another Concordia graduate named Clint Hill (who at one time had dated my mom in college) also moved to Denver. Like my dad, he had served in Korea during college. Hill joined the protective arm of the Secret Service in Denver (a branch of the US Treasury) and is best known as the agent in the motorcade who jumped on top of President and Mrs. Kennedy in Dallas the day JFK was killed.

My dad then worked for decades in "finance," but for whom, we kids never really knew. We moved every year or two. I recall the same "business associates" flying to wherever we lived to meet with him. Dad also traveled by air a great deal in the 1960s attending "classes for work." As a young child, I recall seeing John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy and Richard Nixon at different times at airports when we would go pick up my dad after a trip. I never gave any of this a second thought, including the fact that our family suddenly moved to another city at 3AM the night I graduated from high school. I never asked any questions, and my dad died in 2001.

My daughters have always thought my upbringing was bizarre, and upon checking, they discovered that every town we lived in had a Secret Service office. Marveling at my cluelessness, my kids on two separate occasions asked my mom after Dad was gone if he had worked for the Secret Service or some other government agency. Never one to lie to her family, she simply smiled and didn't answer. She died in 2007.

My daughters have been on a mission ever since without success trying to find out what my dad did for a living. My spouse has talked with a retired FBI agent who said he probably worked for the government, but that if he were deep enough into secrecy, his files could never be accessed by the Freedom of Information Act.

The mystery will probably never be solved, but I know there are many TRF members of varied backgrounds, so I ask: Anyone here have any ideas?

[Welshwatchman]

The supreme honour for someone to work surreptitiously for the "good side" is that the secret is forever kept, even from your next of kin.

Perhaps the mystery should be left unsolved.

[wantonebad]

That must be very interesting Joey and very frustrating at the same time. I have zero insight to add but it certainly sounds like your suspicions are warranted. I think that unless your dad confided in another friend or family member you'll probably never know for sure unless they are willing to come forward. You could try investigating his cover story and see if anyone else has done any leg work on the company or business he claimed to work for. You can also see about the recruiting activities for his college, see if they have any records. I'm afraid your probably up against it though. Good luck!

[MonBK]

I think the word "Secret" in Secret Service says it all.

[joeychitwood]

The one question I did have as a youth was why did he never rise in the hierarchy of finance with each move? Every time we moved, the "job change" was a lateral move, never a step up the ladder of commercial finance. We were always told that he was a vice-president of a regional financial institution, though I never went to his office.

You may be wondering how I could remain so unaware of my situation, and I have no explanation. Like any kid, I was resentful that I had to leave a school just when I was making good friends and could not understand why we kept moving. The idea that Dad could be involved in some kind of covert occupation was unthinkable.

He was the last person I would have ever thought could live a secret life. (Which almost certainly is a very desirable quality in an operative.)

[smak]

Reminds me of an old fable i heard..

When baby elephants are acquired at the circus an anaklet and chain are fastened to one leg to kept it from escaping the yards.

At first the animal strains to reach new bounds, but over time it realizes the fruitlesness of such activity. Somewhere along the way the chain is replaced braided rope, that, if taxed would give way instantly.

Because the elephant over time learns any restraint is absolute it's all that is needed.

Even a heavy gauge chain would give way to a full grown elephants strength but because "it has always just been so" only a weak rope serves enough to restrain.

Just as you don't seem the question your upbringing because you were exposed to it from an early age but your offspring are unaffected and highly curious.

I hope the correct path finds you and yours, good luck ;)

[dddrees]

I am.


Oops, I don't think I was supposed to mention that.

[BarkMaster]

Things that happened then could still have ramifications now.

Sounds like your parents so respected his job and employer that they kept secrets from their loved ones. Consider the possibility that you honor your parents and the employer by leaving it alone.

[JasoninDenver]

The president sure was never at the airport when we picked up my Dad.

Just sayin......

Sounds like you have a great story to tell the grandkids.

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

The president sure was never at the airport when we picked up my Dad.

None were President when I saw them (and actually shook hands with Robert Kennedy.) I saw them during their campaigns.

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

The supreme honour for someone to work surreptitiously for the "good side" is that the secret is forever kept, even from your next of kin. Perhaps the mystery should be left unsolved.

Originally Posted by BarkMaster

Things that happened then could still have ramifications now. Sounds like your parents so respected his job and employer that they kept secrets from their loved ones. Consider the possibility that you honor your parents and the employer by leaving it alone.

An interesting concept that, in my desire to get answers, I have never really considered. Thank you.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

An interesting concept that, in my desire to get answers, I have never really considered. Thank you.

Deny, deny, deny! Many, many, years ago I was involved in something. My girlfriend at the time (now wife) started asking me very pointed questions. She was very close on many of the questions and my denial just made it worse. She was getting mad at me and I was wondering if I was talking in my sleep. Finally, after one more "I do not know what you are talking about", she threw the newspaper at me. There was an amazing amount of information in the article.

When you leave the "Palace of Secrets" you have to sign a document promising never to reveal those secrets. Your parents thought enough of his oath never to reveal it. Maybe there is a message there. Food for thought. jmho

[c.rod]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Deny, deny, deny! Many, many, years ago I was involved in something. My girlfriend at the time (now wife) started asking me very pointed questions. She was very close on many of the questions and my denial just made it worse. She was getting mad at me and I was wondering if I was talking in my sleep. Finally, after one more "I do not know what you are talking about", she threw the newspaper at me. There was an amazing amount of information in the article.

When you leave the "Palace of Secrets" you have to sign a document promising never to reveal those secrets. Your parents thought enough of his oath never to reveal it. Maybe there is a message there. Food for thought. jmho

i thought they had you look at the flashy thing m.i.b. style and wiped your memory...

[Kanger]

I know 3 different past clients of mine who have told me their military/special forces/CIA past, not the specifics I mean but that it took them all over the world. Coincidentally they were also some of the most straight up, easy to deal with, pleasant to talk to clients ever.

[Frosty]

This seems like an awfully deep cover for the Secret Service. It sounds more like the CIA or No Such Agency. jmho

If you ask someone what they do and they do not answer, do not ask again. If you see someone you work with and they see you and do not acknowledge you, ignore them. If someone asks you about a project you are working on, learn to have a convincing blank look on your face. The wonderful world of secrets.

[joeychitwood]

smak, the analogy probably explains why I never questioned the reason for being told to come home from my school-sponsored HS graduation party at 3 AM so we could move and start driving through the night to the next city. When my daughters heard the story, they thought I was insane for not asking why.

[joeychitwood]

I had the utmost respect for my mother, and that she could look my daughters in the eyes and not answer when asked if Grandpa worked for a secret agency showed me that, indeed, something had been kept from us. If true, it must have been very difficult for my dad to face the resentment I held against him for constantly uprooting us without explaining the greater purpose.

[Director EDTF]

I would say a good start is to go through the papers your parents left behind to see if your mom and dad received government pensions from Office of Personnel management (OPM) as opposed to Social Security pensions. Also look at their health benefits to see if they received government health insurance as a secondary plan. This will at least tell you if your father was employed by the federal government. Then you can take it from there. Hope this helps!

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by Director EDTF

I would say a good start is to go through the papers your parents left behind to see if your mom and dad received government pensions from Office of Personnel management (OPM) as opposed to Social Security pensions. Also look at their health benefits to see if they received government health insurance as a secondary plan. This will at least tell you if your father was employed by the federal government. Then you can take it from there. Hope this helps!

Thanks for the suggestions. I will see what I can find.

[c.rod]

with no disrespect, it sounds like govt/secret agency or illegal activities,mob, drugs etc....

or lastly witness protection?

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by c.rod

with no disrespect, it sounds like govt/secret agency or illegal activities,mob, drugs etc.... or lastly witness protection?

Trust me, those possibilities have been considered. One always wants to think that their parents were upstanding citizens, and we never saw anything to the contrary. We lived a strictly middle-class life, and no surprising amounts of money were ever found after their deaths.

[nauticajoe]

Very interesting.

Decades ago, I took on a job that involved a diverse group of guys from different agencies, DEA, CIA, Navy counter-intelligence, etc....I was hired because of my military background. You would think these guys would share their 'war' stories over drinks.....NEVER!

[WARVET]

Uh, The Secret Service Ain't all that secret and Ain't all that exciting. Any Government worker will just tell you they work for the government. If questioned further say we do analysis or whatever. Nothing exciting as these jobs are really boring. Government workers really Don't move around a whole lot as DC is still in the same place.

[ducatidoc]

Originally Posted by WARVET

Uh, The Secret Service Ain't all that secret and Ain't all that exciting. Any Government worker will just tell you they work for the government. If questioned further say we do analysis or whatever. Nothing exciting as these jobs are really boring. Government workers really Don't move around a whole lot as DC is still in the same place.

This.

My assistant's ex-husband worked the Prez detail in the late '70's, and I get all kinds of stories about the Carters, little Amy, etc..

Methinks Dad was a spook, Doc.

[Tri-Tip]

I have a friend who now has a pretty successful business in his late 40's, but as a kid was a goof-off. He was a Marine (never saw combat) in the mid 80's and was a heavy equipment mechanic. The he did something else, and ended up with his business.

What is odd is that he had a concealed carty permit, which is very hard to get in California to start with, and would tell us that he would get pulled over and when the police or highway patrol checked his gun permit, it showed as "sealed" (or something to that effect).

A few of us have asked him how he got it, but he always just changed the subject.

He was too much of a goof to do anything to important, so it was a bit interesting to me.

[lavaman]

it sounds like your Dad lived in the shadow world to some level

i hate to say this (without revealing much) but it probably was not as glamorous as it sounds, but was certainly enough to be interesting,

in any event, your parents obviously thought enough of their children to not say a word, and perhaps enough of their nation to not violate their oath of office

fascinating possibilities...


(I am reminded of a passage in Blind Man's Bluff where the submariners of the Cold War finally got to tell their tales, and grieve all the years they spent away from their loved ones)

[CdnWatchDoc]

Joey, each profession has a code of ethics and has the right/expectation of privacy. As a lawyer or doctor, we have to respect what clients/patients tell us. So our stories can be a little dull or boring to families. My kids know what I do, but not what I say or who I see. Nearly not as "exciting" as TV portrays.
I agree with many of the opinions that your father had a position that required secrecy/privacy, and in turn protection for your family. Doubt it was gangs or mafia-either you would still be connected (and not talking) or dead. A little investigation will give you enough information to satisfy some of your curiosity, but as that line from MIB2 goes: "don't ask questions that you don't want to know the answers".
My $0.02

[kilyung]

I'm going to have to report this thread to the MiB.

[joeychitwood]

I spoke with my daughters last night and talked about some of the comments made in this thread. My oldest reminded me of an unusual encounter at my dad's funeral.

After the service, my daughter's boyfriend at the time, a commercial property broker in Minneapolis, struck up a conversation outside the church with a well-dressed gentleman in his 70s. He told Justin that he was an old friend of my dad's and had retired from a "business" career and now dabbled in real estate in Minneapolis. Justin told the man that he would love to talk with him more about some properties he represented. The older man gave him a name (not recognized by any of us) and a phone number with a Twin Cities area code to call to arrange a meeting. The man did not attend the burial or the dinner afterwards.

A few weeks later, Justin called the number. A woman who answered the phone said she had never heard of the man and that Justin had dialed her home in error. In talking about the incident later, no one in the family could say they knew who the man was or how he knew my dad.

The girls admitted that, like me, they had never considered that the secret should probably be left alone, but they thought it was a reasonable idea.

[Sperry]

Any FBI, NSA or Secret Service Agents on TRF?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to . . . "