Another One Of "Those" Threads: 14060M vs. Black Bay

[joshuagull]

I apologize for the "vs" thread but I've been torturing myself enough over this and figured I'd be better served to defer to those who have more experience with both pieces. On paper this is a fairly close matchup in some respects, but I'm mostly concerned with how each piece would fit within my actual life.

TL/DR Version: Skip to the photos at the end.

Background: I'm 32 year old. Husband and father that works in a very blue collar job environment earning an upper middle class living coming from a lower middle class upbringing. I currently own an Omega Planet Ocean black bezel cal 2500 which I wear for all work purposes and an Omega Speedmaster Pro moonwatch which I wear casually away from work as it's a perfect fit for my own personal style (and I love and appreciate the historical significant if it). I appreciate both of these pieces as they are well-built watches that are visually interesting and that also fly well enough under the radar that they don't call attention to themselves as being "expensive watches" (there's that modest lower middle class upbringing coming out in me).

I'm currently looking to add one more "nice" dive watch mainly for casual wear away from work for situations when I'd need more water resistance than the Speedmaster can muster--and with a 3 year old who loves water, it would be getting worn pretty often especially during warmer months. I'd also like to be able to wear it to work 1-2 days a week just to mix things up.

I work on the district/regional level for UPS. It's not always business casual attire though as I do often have to put on the "browns" (UPS driver uniform) depending on the day. I also maintain a limited number of professional wedding photography commissions each year (which was my main gig before my current position at UPS).

Away from work I dress pretty casually--a button down with jeans and boots or sneakers, or a t-shirt or polo with shorts and boat shoes.

I put together these two boards mainly to see if the Black Bay would even work with my normal attire, and I believe that it does quite well--surprisingly well actually. The question is whether or not the 14060 works better.

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The way I see it, technically the 14060M has a superior movement, they both have excellent cases, while the Black Bay has superior construction in the bracelet area. I'm not so much a "movement guy" so long as the movement is reliable and serviceable, and both watches are great in that regard. So for me it comes down to the overall look and feel of the piece.

Aesthetically, the Black Bay is a much more visually interesting watch to me. Gilt dial and hands, red bezel, big crown with no guards and the colored crown tube, domed sapphire crystal, snowflake hour hand, etc. Of the two, it's certainly the watch I feel I'd spend more time looking at more often, seeing how it looks in different light, and completely forgetting to check the time. It would also have significantly more wrist presence due to the case size/thickness over the Sub. As a brand, Tudor also flys under the radar from non-WIS folks which is a benefit in my opinion.

On the other hand, while I don't find the 14060 nearly as visually interesting, it is an extremely well executed and understated package that's more a "strap it on the wrist, go anywhere and do anything, and forget about it" timepiece that will look as good now on me at 32 years old as it would 40 years from now at 72 years old. I appreciate the historical significance and lineage of the Submariner, and I'm particularly drawn to the 14060M 2-liner Sub. I feel it would be the far more valuable timepiece down the road, but this is only a minor factor as watches are a poor investment generally speaking and who knows if I'll even make it that far down the road. I tend to prefer matte dials to gloss dials and domed crystals to flat, but the 14060 would offer a gloss dial and flat crystal to mix things up from my existing watches, so I see some merit to that despite finding the matte chocolate dial and domed sapphire of the Black Bay more visually appealing. There's also the strength of the Rolex brand, but I do have some small concerns of perception in my blue collar place of employment and around family members if I were to get the Rolex and it were to be noticed.

For anyone that's owned both or that can read these thoughts and see something worth mentioning, any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Guitarfan]

I don't think you need both a PO and Sub in a small collection - they're essentially filling the same role as they're both black divers.

Your PO is 600m water resistant, so I don't see why you need another diver for casual wear. Can't you just use the PO?

Personally, I'd consider moving the PO to the join the Speedy as a weekend watch and get something different for work in a different style. Maybe a pilot watch like an IWC or Sinn?

[huba01]

Easy , 14060 all the way.

[joshuagull]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

I don't think you need both a PO and Sub in a small collection - they're essentially filling the same role as they're both black divers.

Your PO is 600m water resistant, so I don't see why you need another diver for casual wear. Can't you just use the PO?

Personally, I'd consider moving the PO to the join the Speedy as a weekend watch and get something different for work in a different style. Maybe a pilot watch like an IWC or Sinn?

I definitely don't "need" two, but then again I'd wager that no one needs even one watch as expensive as any of these in question. I would like two, however, for the sake of variety and because I enjoy watches.


I do prefer a date watch for work purposes as I often need to reference it, but prefer a no date watch away from work. Hence the consideration of the Sub and Black Bay. I do like pilot watches from IWC and Sinn among other brands but not enough to spend money on one. I like my divers.

I do agree though that one concern of mine is having two black bezel black dial divers. I also have a few Seiko divers that I use as beaters/vacation watches (6309, SXK007 and SRP637) of which two are also black bezel black dial watches. So the Black Bay would certainly shake things up a lot more than another black bezel watch. But I do Iove me a black bezel so there's that.

[Howie]

They are both great reliable no-date divers. It seems you really prefer the aesthetics of the BB so perhaps go with the BB. Also, the red bezel and gilt fonts go very well with brown shoes which you seem to wear.

[joshuagull]

Originally Posted by Howie

They are both great reliable no-date divers. It seems you really prefer the aesthetics of the BB so perhaps go with the BB. Also, the red bezel and gilt fonts go very well with brown shoes which you seem to wear.

Good point. I wear brown boots or brown boat shoes 99% of the time. The only time I wear black shoes at all is when I'm wearing black sneakers for work purposes when I have to wear a UPS uniform or when I'm forced to wear black shoes as part of a wedding for instance. But left to my own choice I do not wear black at all. All my suits are navy or gray. All my clothes are earth toned. That's my style and has been for my entire adult life, and I don't see it changing anytime soon, so I'm not too worried about the Black Bay not fitting in down the road.

I do prefer the aesthetics of the Black Bay, to be sure, in the sense that to me it's the more visually interesting watch. It is no contest there. I briefly had a 16610 and didn't find it visually spectacular with the gloss dial and flat crystal. It didn't catch light in an interesting way particularly well. In contrast I find my Speedmaster visually interesting due to the hesalite crystal and dial angles under different lighting conditions. I find my Planet Ocean visually interesting due to the way the applied markers and hands catch light in various situations. Both are watches that I'll look at often while completely forgetting to check the time. The Black Bay has this effect too between the dial, hands, markers and bezel. The Sub does not.

But what the Sub lacks in distinctive characteristics that jump out at me, it makes up for in sheer balance. I prefer the overall proportions, historical significant and visual versatility of the Sub. As a total package it just "works" in any and every situation. My Speedmaster is much the same way and as a result it is my favorite watch. The Planet Ocean isn't as versatile in my opinion, and the Black Bay would be even less versatile than the Planet Ocean. But considering the fact that I do have other watches, this may make the point of versatility moot.

[stil]

14060.

[cop414]

I love the board concept that you put together. With the classic relaxed clothing I'd have to give my nod to the Sub, classic timeless style that frankly never will go out of style. Not that there's any wrong answer here.

[travisb]

Sounds like the BB appeals to you more.

[Old Expat Beast]

Not to muddy the waters here, but the Ranger would look great among those pics you posted. Just a thought

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by travisb

Sounds like the BB appeals to you more.

x2!

go with your gut. seems like you are trying to "convince" yourself about the 14060, but you really like the BB.

plus, at the BB's price point, you can always add a rolex down the road.

[Old Expat Beast]

Go with the one you like the look of. My BB keeps better time than my 14060m ever did. Both can be regulated to near perfect timekeeping.

[beshannon]

tl;dr

14060 without question

[kentrojan1]

Get the black bay!


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[Mr. K]

I'd go for the sub all day long. Both are nice, but the sub I like the sub.

[HogwldFLTR]

I own both and started with the 14060. That said, you can swap out 14060 bezel inserts using after market ones to a achieve a BBR look but in the end you'll likely get both as neither will really suffice for the other (if you really like both). I could likely live with the BBR alone, not! I'd say get your more expensive one first and later the other.

[joshuagull]

I do like the Ranger but not so much for myself.

The thing making this harder is that the real ideal watch is a 5513, but those are out of reach for me. The 14060 and Black Bay both share some elements that make the 5513 special and at an affordable range for me. So in some way I'll have to compromise. Trying to minimize that compromise as much as possible. The advice to get the more expensive watch first is something I need to give some serious thought to. I hate flipping watches but if I got the Sub and didn't love it I could easily move it and get the Black Bay relatively easily as well. Or add a Black Bay later. Definitely something to consider. I don't se 14060M 2-liner luminova prices going down anytime soon whereas the Black Bay is relatively stable for the foreseeable future.

The unspoken option is getting the Sub and flipping the Planet Ocean for the Black Bay. I'd miss the Planet Ocean a lot though.

[RolexJNJ]

Amongst the pics you posted, the BB looks better. Good luck!

[polarinda]

sub, by default.

[Bernie.H.]

Looking at your clothing tastes I would go for the 'red' Black Bay on the vintage leather strap and then possibly save up for the new blue Tudor Pelagos. That would give you the Speedy, the PO and those two. That is a nice collection with a bit of colour that complements your outfits.

[Seaward]

14060

[Guitarfan]

Why not use the BB cash and flip the PO for a 5513? Here in the UK that would get you around £4000 which would get you a 5513.....

[nick c]

Start with Tudor then in future go for sub nd

[avirom]

notice that the dail on the red bb is not black, rather more of a brownish shade.

all together the red bb (in my opinion) with a brown leather strap would be better than the rolex.

but go with your heart (or buy both......)

[Oyster99]

I think you should go for the black bay!

[Knisse]

I like both, if you are a 'one watch' kind of guy, then the Sub, if you have a collection then you most likely already have something similar to a sub and the Tudor would be interesting.

[jjnd08]

It sounds like you like the Black Bay more, but the name on the dial of the 14060 is luring you away.

[joshuagull]

Originally Posted by jjnd08

It sounds like you like the Black Bay more, but the name on the dial of the 14060 is luring you away.

And the history/heritage. And the universal flexibility of the design. I haven't mentioned it but with the Black Bay I feel it only works on the bracelet due to the case thickness. Others may disagree but I just don't like it on leather or fabric. With the 14060 I feel it works as well on any strap, leather or fabric/nato, as it does on the bracelet.

I think if my main three watch rotation was the Planet Ocean, Speedmaster Pro and 14060 then I'd wake up in the morning and put the Planet Ocean on, then away from work it would be a simple decision of whether or not I was going to be around water or wanted to wear a watch on a bracelet. If so I'd grab the Sub and know it would go with anything and be okay anywhere. Otherwise I'd grab the Speedmaster. With the Black Bay, due to the niche styling, it would be a lot more specific and I feel like I'd be wearing my Planet Ocean a lot more away from work in conjunction with the Black Bay. So it may come down to whether or not I want the versatility the Black Bay would offer aesthetically alongside the Planet Ocean and Speedmaster or if I'd rather get the 14060 and slot the three watches into specific roles (work watch, casual watch, casual go-anywhere watch).

Good stuff guys. This is helping me to think it all through and hash it out. A lot to consider.

[boost2perfection]

I own both

[Loevhagen]

If this thread is more of a fashion equation, I would advise getting the 14060. The monochrome design fits everything. The red BB don't.