How can I protect myself from eBay buyers who will claim I sold them fakes?

[Seth789]

Hi everyone.

I want to begin selling used Rolex watches on eBay, with an offer of a money-back guarantee.

Please tell me, what would I do if a buyer has a fake Rolex watch with a fake certificate, and he orders from me an authentic Rolex watch of the same model. All he'd have to do is claim that I sent him a fake, and return the fake to me. I would have no way of proving to ebay that I sent him an authentic watch.

I'm told that the hologram on the Proof of Authenticity document that Rolex provides with their watches is very difficult to counterfeit, but I must send this document to the customer. I will therefore not be able to show it to ebay should the customer claim he received a counterfeit product. The customer can simply send back a fake document.

(If I could send the customer a notarized copy of the proof of Authenticity document that Rolex produces, rather than the original, that would be great. But I know of no such notary who provides this service.)

Does anyone have any ideas how to solve this problem?

Thanks very much.

[cvp808]

I've sold a few watches - only one on this forum so far - 3 or 4 on eBay. I always film the watch up close as I'm packing it into the box at the UPS store. I keep filming until the box is sealed and the shipping label is placed over the top seam. It's not a perfect strategy and to date I've not had an issue with buyers claiming the watch was fake or the box arrived empty. One thing I do know - insurance is a must and once UPS takes possession of the package a claim can be filed if something goes wrong.

None of my precautionary strategies give me complete peace though. Every time I send out a watch I worry until the buyer confirms they have received and are happy with the watch.

I'm super curious how the experienced and professional sellers deal with this - so I'm glad you asked this question. It's something I've always wondered about but never thought of posting.

[Seth789]

Thanks for writing. Your filming idea is very intelligent. I will certainly do this.

Thanks very much for sharing this idea. It can only help.

(I have a feeling that the answer to my question is that sellers make sure to earn enough profit for each sale that they can absorb the loss they incur from the occasional unscrupulous buyer. I just hope there is a better way to handle this problem.)

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Seth789

Thanks for writing. Your filming idea is very intelligent. I will certainly do this.

Thanks very much for sharing this idea. It can only help.

(I have a feeling that the answer to my question is that sellers make sure to earn enough profit for each sale that they can absorb the loss they incur from the occasional unscrupulous buyer. I just hope there is a better way to handle this problem.)

I have read on TRF that PayPal doesn't accept these videos (search PayPal for the threads). PayPal is very buyer friendly, so you will incur most of the risk. That's why trusted sellers here will only accept a wire transfer. A wire transfer moves the risk to the buyer, and the buyer responds by only buying from someone with bulletproof references (trusted seller).

[tommy91]

Originally Posted by cvp808

I've sold a few watches - only one on this forum so far - 3 or 4 on eBay. I always film the watch up close as I'm packing it into the box at the UPS store. I keep filming until the box is sealed and the shipping label is placed over the top seam. It's not a perfect strategy and to date I've not had an issue with buyers claiming the watch was fake or the box arrived empty. One thing I do know - insurance is a must and once UPS takes possession of the package a claim can be filed if something goes wrong.

None of my precautionary strategies give me complete peace though. Every time I send out a watch I worry until the buyer confirms they have received and are happy with the watch.

I'm super curious how the experienced and professional sellers deal with this - so I'm glad you asked this question. It's something I've always wondered about but never thought of posting.

I have sold quite few on eBay Aswel. Also the same get very anxious until the buyer confirms he has received and happy. Again no problems so far and I also video packaging and handing over to courier process all in one video. I also use the same techniques as I would when buying a watch, I buy the buyer. I usually give them a ring and have a conversation get a feel if there genuine. It's not bullet proof again but it's easy get a good feeling if someone genuinely wants the watch and not trying to scam you. If you are very very cautious I don't think there is too much risk in selling on eBay.

[Seth789]

I don't understand something. Once a buyer clicks to purchase the watch on eBay, the seller has a legal commitment to sell to him. The seller doesn't have the option to call the buyer to see whether he has a good feeling about him.

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[tommy91]

Originally Posted by Seth789

I don't understand something. Once a buyer clicks to purchase the watch on eBay, the seller has a legal commitment to sell to him. The seller doesn't have the option to call the buyer to see whether he has a good feeling about him.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

This is my experience only, however when I have sold watches on eBay all of them have said are you open to offers and then provided there mobile before they have purchased to discuss. I have never sold on eBay without speaking to the buyer on the phone first. I have sold around 6 on eBay I think now and will sell more when I want to flip. I am not saying I wouldn't sell if I didn't speak to the buyer on the phone, however it just hasn't happend. I am talking with experience in the UK this seems to be common practice. I may be slightly concerned selling to someone who didn't want to know who they were buying the watch from.

[shawnmarz]

Originally Posted by tommy91

This is my experience only, however when I have sold watches on eBay all of them have said are you open to offers and then provided there mobile before they have purchased to discuss. I have never sold on eBay without speaking to the buyer on the phone first. I have sold around 6 on eBay I think now and will sell more when I want to flip. I am not saying I wouldn't sell if I didn't speak to the buyer on the phone, however it just hasn't happend. I am talking with experience in the UK this seems to be common practice. I may be slightly concerned selling to someone who didn't want to know who they were buying the watch from.

You're lucky!
eBay has recently threatened to kick us off for having direct contact with a buyer outside of eBay. They have robots that can detect if you exchange numbers and emails. Very annoying.

What I love about these forums is that is gives the buyer and seller a chance to provide references. The best buyers are ones that have bought from other members, it makes everything so much safer for both parties. If only there was a selling platform that functioned like these forums. I'd be the first to sign up.

[mapalfa]

I've seen some listings that say internal parts are security marked to avoid this sort of risk.

[tommy91]

Originally Posted by mapalfa

I've seen some listings that say internal parts are security marked to avoid this sort of risk.

I have also seen this, does seem a little extreme. It's not as bad as everyone thinks. If the buy has really good feedback 99% of the time everything goes smoothly. You can also set your listing I think to allow purchases only from users over a certain amount of feedback. Obviously this would eliminate some potential customers. I have never bought a watch off eBay though and don't think I ever would, the prices arnt that great and if they are there usually something wrong with it.

[Patton250]

You could do a brief interview before you sell a watch to them and ask them what their feelings are towards the Costco return policy. That could give you a good idea of what type of character they have and whether or not there is a high probability they might screw you.

[tommy91]

Originally Posted by Patton250

You could do a brief interview before you sell a watch to them and ask them what their feelings are towards the Costco return policy. That could give you a good idea of what type of character they have and whether or not there is a high probability they might screw you.

[joli160]

Don't accept PayPal as a seller is the one and only way.

[1William]

I would not accept PayPal and move to wire transfers. The transfers have issues also but if you wait until the funds have cleared and move the funds from one bank to another the seller buyer relationship becomes more equal. I like ebay for some items but anything involving real money I talk to the buyer/seller and do my background.

[GLADIATOR]

These "type" of threads worry me.
Comments in these open threads may allow scammers to find ways to improve their methods or worse maybe the OP is looking to learn similar tips.

I think (personally) we should be extremely careful tutoring people in protective measures or what identifies a fake.

Just my 2 cents
adam

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These "type" of threads worry me.
Comments in these open threads may allow scammers to find ways to improve their methods or worse maybe the OP is looking to learn similar tips.

I think (personally) we should be extremely careful tutoring people in protective measures or what identifies a fake.

Just my 2 cents
adam

Have to agree.. This thread feels Trollish....

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These "type" of threads worry me.
Comments in these open threads may allow scammers to find ways to improve their methods or worse maybe the OP is looking to learn similar tips.

I think (personally) we should be extremely careful tutoring people in protective measures or what identifies a fake.

Just my 2 cents
adam

this x100

[Rebel]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These "type" of threads worry me.
Comments in these open threads may allow scammers to find ways to improve their methods or worse maybe the OP is looking to learn similar tips.

I think (personally) we should be extremely careful tutoring people in protective measures or what identifies a fake.

Just my 2 cents
adam

This.

[R1@160@alltimes]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These "type" of threads worry me.
Comments in these open threads may allow scammers to find ways to improve their methods or worse maybe the OP is looking to learn similar tips.

I think (personally) we should be extremely careful tutoring people in protective measures or what identifies a fake.

Just my 2 cents
adam

X2 Especially from brand spanking new members with zero history on TRF smh

[iliketime]

Before coming here, i used ebay once for a rolex. I posted the auction and the wise members instructed me, theres aftermarket parts. Seller had a 14 day money back guarantee. Once here, i used to only deal with users that accepts paypal, but im slowly warming up to the idea of a wire transfer, once I understand the security and protection for both parties. Remember you are literally sending thousands of hard earned dollars to someone on the internet, in hopes they will hold up their end of the deal. But i went with a trusted seller, and have been quite happy with my purchase.

[Seth789]

On eBay you cannot set your listing to allow purchases only from users who have over a certain amount of feedback.

After reading all of the above comments, I think my best bet would be to sell it to a trusted seller who would then put it up on eBay. I will make less money, since the seller would surely mark up the price, but I should be able to at least get a commission on the deal.

[Seth789]

I am not trolling, nor am I trying to learn how to scam. But I don't blame people for being suspicious, since the internet is full of scammers.

I cannot limit my ebay buyers to those with great purchasing history. So that's out. So after reading all of your comments, I think my best option is to sell to a trusted seller who would then resell it. I will make less money that way, but it's better than nothing, and I don't see any other alternative.

[Seth789]

I have now another idea: to buy commerce insurance from a local company. I just hope it exists for ebay selling of such expensive items.

[michael067]

Sell them on a different forum or manner, never sell high end items on ebay, just asking for trouble. Just my experience.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by michael067

Sell them on a different forum or manner, never sell high end items on ebay, just asking for trouble. Just my experience.

+1. Forget eBay for selling high end items. Ain't gonna work out great. If you're selling legit high end watches, sell on fora (is that a word?) like this.

[Seth789]

Thanks everyone. You've all been very helpful.

I cannot get commerce insurance so I am dropping the idea of selling on eBay. As many of you have said, it's too tilted towards the buyer.

[shawnmarz]

Originally Posted by Seth789

Thanks everyone. You've all been very helpful.



I cannot get commerce insurance so I am dropping the idea of selling on eBay. As many of you have said, it's too tilted towards the buyer.

My advice (coming from someone who's had watches stolen, PayPal scams, even a bank wire scam one time). Don't bother with potential ebay transactions, especially if you're starting in the watch dealing business. One scam could break you.

The way we did it:

Build solid references!!! These forums could be a great tool for you to do that.

Acquire amazing watches!!!!

Then build a website

Promote on eBay (use it as a billboard) make sure you username matches your website,
so hopefully a smart buyer will know to search your name on google and find your site this way (I love when this happens, we always give a big discount because we avoid eBay and PayPal fees)

Ship overnight, always and fully insured! Never ship a watch over the weekend (the thought of having one our watches sitting in a FedEx warehouse where thieves, sorry, I meant employees, have to look over packages is terrifying) we had 6 watches stolen in one shipment when we shipped over the weekend with fedex.

Bank wire only but always wait until it completely clears before sending and make sure the buyer knows this as well. We had one guy use a fake check when we gave him our wire details, the funds showed up on our end so we shipped the watch and big mistake!! At this time we didn't know of this scam but it's very possible.

I think I am just rambling at this point because of alcohol and that Im still bitter because of how dumb PayPal and eBay is.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

+1. Forget eBay for selling high end items. Ain't gonna work out great. If you're selling legit high end watches, sell on fora (is that a word?) like this.

Forums is a perfectly legit word.

[modee]

At the other end of the spectrum I know of an out of state buyer who bought a Rolex on eBay, and on delivery he made the postman wait until he opened the box (to be a witness) and he got just the Rolex box (cardboard and wooden) and nothing else. Turned out that this seller had sold the same Rolex to three different buyers on eBay and not delivered to any one of them. Anyway, I kept in touch with this friend of mine and he said that he never got any restitution even though the culprit was arrested, and also heard that all charges were eventually dropped. This crooked seller was selling under his own real name, but somehow they just couldn't prove the case against him, maybe because the victims were spread out around the country. Also from what I was told this guy actually had a receipt for the Rolex to prove he had it (but just for one Rolex, not three!), anyway somehow the waters got muddied to the point where three people paid him with PayPal and got burned, although my friend said he actually ended up getting the money back from PayPal, not sure about the others.

[Seth789]

This forum is amazing. You guys are really incredible. Very, very helpful.

"Ship overnight, fully insured" one of you wrote. Does anyone know an international shipping company that fully insures expensive watches? I haven't found any yet.

Shawn, I never realized this difference between a fake check and a wire. If I understood you correctly, when you deposited the fake check in your bank account, it first showed up normally, as if money entered your account, but when the check bounced a couple of days later, the money was debited from your account (Now I understand why so many businesses will not ship until the check they receive clears.) On the other hand, a wire transfer is final and can never be revoked. This is an important point and I'm glad you made me aware of it. Did I understand you correctly, or were you trying to say something else?

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