Advise on a serious trade for a 5131J.

[Jetkopite]

Hi there guys hope you are all having a great week..

Being an airline captain I have been a very keen admirer of the World Time 5131's and have tried like crazy to get hold of a 5131R and even wrote personally to Mr Stern, to which he replied personally via fedex but unable to help me.

Just wanted some advise as I have come across a 5131J like new not sealed. Would you trade a 5980R and 5712 which I bough double sealed plus 36K USD for a 5131J. OR 5980R + Rolex Smurf 166619LB (3 years old) plus 46K USD for 5131J.

Looking fwd to hearing from the more experienced collectors if the above deals are worth it and do you see the 5131J appreciating in value in the future to justify this trade?

Thanks

Andy

IG: JETKOPITE777

[lapince]

I would definitely not, but this is very subjective, I much prefer your actual watches, sure it's a great watch but for the same price IMO there are way cooler watches, but again your tastes and your money, good luck

Ps; also not a YG lover, RG I would be more excited though not to the point to make the trade...

[PJ S]

Would you not prefer to keep what you have, and just add a 5130P?

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/patekphil...-id3967530.htm

I’d need some serious convincing that a bit of enamelling was worth an extra $60K+ – even if it were the theological Holy Trinity who handcrafted it.

Absolute truth? I'd think you were off your rocker if you genuinely entertained the notion of either of those trades.

[jon_jon]

I guess it really depends on how bad you want the 5131 and how much you are willing to pay for it. If it is indeed your dream watch and you won't be happy without it, I am sure you will do whatever is necessary to acquire one.

Having said that, typically a long-term Patek customer who has a long history of Patek purchases from an AD is allocated a 5131. It is certainly a very impressive watch to say the least. I have only seen it at pre-owned watch stores selling for quite a premium.

Good luck with your decision!

[Hollister]

Be fair, the enamelling is done by Swiss virgins. Twins an' all.

[rebel_1]

While I wouldn't necessarily consider myself an experienced collector, the deal you propose has the smurf value $10k less than the 5712, which seems to me a little low. Probably a better deal with trading the 5712 in terms of value. From what I've seen with the 5131j, seems like between $120k and $130k. Biggest concern would be that you really want a 5131r. I see one on Chrono24 for around $140k.

As for apprciation, no one will be able to answer that question. As far as collections go, IMHO it's only worth the trade if you want the 5131j more than your 5980 + whichever other watch you put with it. If your set on the 5131r, then wait to make that deal.

Good thing is your an airline Captain! So you could work a few extra green slips!

Good luck with the the transaction.

[RussW]

It's a hefty premium over list you would be paying. There are a few guys on here with a 5131 - I'd reach out to them by PM to see if they have any advice how to get on a waiting list and pay retail.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by RussW

It's a hefty premium over list you would be paying. There are a few guys on here with a 5131 - I'd reach out to them by PM to see if they have any advice how to get on a waiting list and pay retail.

I believe the 5131R has been discontinued Russ. Best


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[el1125]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

I believe the 5131R has been discontinued Russ. Best


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I think you meant J correct? The R just came out recently....

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by el1125

I think you meant J correct? The R just came out recently....

No, R. There is a rumor around that it's done. They apparently are changing the shape of the case and getting rid of the crown guards.


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[RussW]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

No, R. There is a rumor around that it's done. They apparently are changing the shape of the case and getting rid of the crown guards.


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I hadn't heard that, but I guess it would make sense now we have the 5230.

[rolex_addict]

I would purchase a 5130p with the extra trade-in cash and keep your beautiful watches; sure the enamel dial looks nice but for msrp not for a such a hefty premium!

[lapince]

Originally Posted by rolex_addict

I would purchase a 5130p with the extra trade-in cash and keep your beautiful watches; sure the enamel dial looks nice but for msrp not for a such a hefty premium!

Yeah for me this price is crazy, I mean for the same price, or less, I think you get a grand complication 5270, for half the price almost pre owned, you get a Lange Datograph perpetual, I'm sorry, the MRSP is normal, the grey market price is really not ok for such a watch, for much less you can get a custom watch which will be unique, from Roger Smith, Voutilainen or others, these guys are the top notch watchmakers in the world, I would guess the GMT from Voutilainen would be around 80-100, and you would have a totally unique looking watch, for me this is just not worth it unless you are extremely rich and for you 130k is nothing special, but your call...

[thomaspp]

Hey Andy! Good to see you here brother and thanks again for your help on my 6263.

I've actually done a fair amount of digging myself on the 5131J (my favorite WT and far prefer it over the R in fact for reasons I can explain offline). I believe the fair price for it pre-owned is $110k. I certainly think you could let one Nautilus go - preferably the 5712 as the 5980R has really grown on me as of late. If you could swing 5712 and Smurf plus cash, then, yes.

My personal opinion however is that when (I am getting ready to do so myself btw! :) ) you are going to spend over $100k on a Patek, I rather it be something "complicated" with 5970 and 5004 leading the way. I personally have a hard time plopping down six figures for an enameled dial and not much else.... that said, it is a gorgeous and timeless watch, no doubt. Best.

EDIT: Last thought; would you consider 5110P? That is a gorgeous watch.

[AK797]

I like Thomas' idea of keeping the 5980R. Altho I do really like the new 5930g blue dial.

[Samui]

I had no idea the enamel dial made such a difference in price. Shocking really. What was the retail price on 5089g?

[Racerdj]

My advise is to not settle for the YG if you really want the RG. You might be sorry in the future.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

My personal opinion however is that when (I am getting ready to do so myself btw! :) ) you are going to spend over $100k on a Patek, I rather it be something "complicated" with 5970 and 5004 leading the way. I personally have a hard time plopping down six figures for an enameled dial and not much else.... that said, it is a gorgeous and timeless watch, no doubt. Best.

I couldn't agree more with what Thomas just said which was more or less what I said, that for the same price I would want a grand comp, for the same price you get a 5270, or if you add more cash a 5970, but I prefer the 5270 with blue dial, IMO more than 100K on a WT is just insane, sorry but I really feel this way... If you really want a WT get the 5930 instead, gorgeous watch for what, around 50-60% of the price of the 5131??? Sorry but for me the price on this watch is just insane when you see what you can get for the same price...

Originally Posted by Samui

I had no idea the enamel dial made such a difference in price. Shocking really. What was the retail price on 5089g?

No, the retail is around 60K if I am correct, but there are so few made and they are so hard to get that if you get it not from an AD then you pay twice that price, the retail price is reasonable for such a piece

Originally Posted by Racerdj

My advise is to not settle for the YG if you really want the RG. You might be sorry in the future.

Totally, when you put that kind of money into something, car, watch or anything else, it needs to be perfect, you don't want to compromise at that level, but again I find that watch overpriced to be honest when not from an AD...

[Jetkopite]

[QUOTE=thomaspp;6752807]Hey Andy! Good to see you here brother and thanks again for your help on my 6263.

I've actually done a fair amount of digging myself on the 5131J (my favorite WT and far prefer it over the R in fact for reasons I can explain offline). I believe the fair price for it pre-owned is $110k. I certainly think you could let one Nautilus go - preferably the 5712 as the 5980R has really grown on me as of late. If you could swing 5712 and Smurf plus cash, then, yes.

My personal opinion however is that when (I am getting ready to do so myself btw! :) ) you are going to spend over $100k on a Patek, I rather it be something "complicated" with 5970 and 5004 leading the way. I personally have a hard time plopping down six figures for an enameled dial and not much else.... that said, it is a gorgeous and timeless watch, no doubt. Best.

I agree mate 100% it should be for something complicated, I just got abit exited there for while as ive always wanted a 5131R or a J to pass onto my little one when I am gone one day and she can see where her dad used to fly to around the World... Its just crazy to pay double the retail in all fairness so I guess ill never own one unless a miracle happens..

Originally Posted by Racerdj

My advise is to not settle for the YG if you really want the RG. You might be sorry in the future.

Hi there Dave hope you are well, yeah I prefer the R in all honesty but looks like that's gonna be discontinued soon so thats me out of that aswell..

[Jetkopite]

Thanks very much for all the feedback guys and yeah I agree with most that its not woryn giving 2 gorgeous pieces plus alot of $$$$$ just for a 5131 with enamel dial. If it was for a grand complication 5270R or something then maybe worth it I guess..

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

Thanks very much for all the feedback guys and yeah I agree with most that its not woryn giving 2 gorgeous pieces plus alot of $$$$$ just for a 5131 with enamel dial. If it was for a grand complication 5270R or something then maybe worth it I guess..

Thank you, it would've killed me to see you make that trade, seriously, at the grey market price, 110-130k it's really for guys who have a ton of cash, and who have already a huge collection, I could be wrong but I'm not getting the impression it's your case, not mine either, so as well as I could imagine you doing that for a 5270, I just can't imagine the same thing for a WT which costs a ton because there are few made and outside of an AD they cost a ton, you have 2 awesome watches, keep them, or maybe let one go, 5980R would be my choice, add maybe a little cash and get another WT, you'll get the same thing but for much less, an enamel dial, however beautiful is not worth 60-70k premium over the same watch without it...

Anyways good decision

[Jetkopite]

Originally Posted by lapince

Thank you, it would've killed me to see you make that trade, seriously, at the grey market price, 110-130k it's really for guys who have a ton of cash, and who have already a huge collection, I could be wrong but I'm not getting the impression it's your case, not mine either, so as well as I could imagine you doing that for a 5270, I just can't imagine the same thing for a WT which costs a ton because there are few made and outside of an AD they cost a ton, you have 2 awesome watches, keep them, or maybe let one go, 5980R would be my choice, add maybe a little cash and get another WT, you'll get the same thing but for much less, an enamel dial, however beautiful is not worth 60-70k premium over the same watch without it...

Anyways good decision

Thanks man... To be honest its not I cannot afford to pay those prices but I cant justify paying double to greedy dealers. Its amazing how these pieces end up in the hands of these greedy guys who in turn sell them for 2-3 times retail.. Something very wrong in this system but I guess you have pay to play..

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

Thanks man... To be honest its not I cannot afford to pay those prices but I cant justify paying double to greedy dealers. Its amazing how these pieces end up in the hands of these greedy guys who in turn sell them for 2-3 times retail.. Something very wrong in this system but I guess you have pay to play..

Yeah I agree, too bad that these allocated pieces, which are supposed to go to real Patek lovers who won't sell them, in fact for some go to guys who do sell them to make 60k, at the same time can't blame them too, if I got a watch for 60 that I could sell for double the price, well I would probably do it as well, so I kind of understand them... Even if you can pay that price, a simple WT is really not worth it IMO, at that price you can get amazing watches, and the 5131 even if they are great, are IMO, not amazing, it was just too much really, there are other world timers that your daughter will be just as happy to have from her dad, seems that VC does one with the world on it as well, sure not enamel, but way, way cheaper, and it'll cost you a ton of cash less, giving up your 2 Nautilus and adding a lot of cash just isn't worth it, really any WT from a great brand will make your daughter as happy, I know I would've love getting even a simple Patek from my dad, but he wasn't in watches, just got a Breitling and an Omega, still nice, so really don't stress over it, for that price you can get so much nicer than the 5131

VC link for their WT, with the world on the dial, and 37 time zones...

http://www.vacheron-constantin.com/r...110A-B172.html

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

Thanks man... To be honest its not I cannot afford to pay those prices but I cant justify paying double to greedy dealers. Its amazing how these pieces end up in the hands of these greedy guys who in turn sell them for 2-3 times retail.. Something very wrong in this system but I guess you have pay to play..

Nothing more than the free market and capitalism at work – it’s always been that way for rare/scarce desirable/precious commodities, and is highly unlikely to ever change.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Nothing more than the free market and capitalism at work – it’s always been that way for rare/scarce desirable/precious commodities, and is highly unlikely to ever change.

Concept of the "invisible hand" , Adam Smith "wealth of nations" (1776) but since the inception of time

[KarlS]

Nice watch but not at the prices asked. That includes 5575. I have a feeling it's going to be revived for Badelworld 2017.

[Stuxnet]

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

Hi there guys hope you are all having a great week..

Being an airline captain I have been a very keen admirer of the World Time 5131's and have tried like crazy to get hold of a 5131R and even wrote personally to Mr Stern, to which he replied personally via fedex but unable to help me.

Just wanted some advise as I have come across a 5131J like new not sealed. Would you trade a 5980R and 5712 which I bough double sealed plus 36K USD for a 5131J. OR 5980R + Rolex Smurf 166619LB (3 years old) plus 46K USD for 5131J.

Looking fwd to hearing from the more experienced collectors if the above deals are worth it and do you see the 5131J appreciating in value in the future to justify this trade?

Thanks

Andy

IG: JETKOPITE777

Don't do the trade. Be patient. I think you are half way to getting your 5131R through official channels.

I think it was a great idea to contact Theirry Stern and whatever his response (length, tone, standard or personal communication), it at least got in front of him. He/They know you are out there. They know you are serious and want to buy it through an Authorized Dealer. Patek wants to support its dealer network.

If I were in the pilot's seat, I would wait a year and send him another letter. Tell him you had chance to buy it on the Grey market but you didn't because it just didn't feel right. Give them the whole "special experience" story that they give us. Tell him how chummy you are with your dealer and how he has been good to you and you believe he has earned the sale.

It's a 5131 you want. Not some flash hot today, forgotten tomorrow watch. Persistence and patience will pay off.

Feel free to wire me 25% of the money saved when get your AD priced 5131 instead of losing it on grey market price.

[Jetkopite]

Originally Posted by Stuxnet

Don't do the trade. Be patient. I think you are half way to getting your 5131R through official channels.

I think it was a great idea to contact Theirry Stern and whatever his response (length, tone, standard or personal communication), it at least got in front of him. He/They know you are out there. They know you are serious and want to buy it through an Authorized Dealer. Patek wants to support its dealer network.

If I were in the pilot's seat, I would wait a year and send him another letter. Tell him you had chance to buy it on the Grey market but you didn't because it just didn't feel right. Give them the whole "special experience" story that they give us. Tell him how chummy you are with your dealer and how he has been good to you and you believe he has earned the sale.


It's a 5131 you want. Not some flash hot today, forgotten tomorrow watch. Persistence and patience will pay off.

Feel free to wire me 25% of the money saved when get your AD priced 5131 instead of losing it on grey market price.

Hahahaha I like your style indeed my friend..

[Stuxnet]

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

Hahahaha I like your style indeed my friend..

Make Thierry an offer he can't refuse.

Offer to pilot his Falcon 7X for him when his regular crew are on vacation. Work out an arrangement. Ha. Ha.

I hear he is patiently waiting for a Global 7000. Should have got in line for a G650. Far superior plane. But he's the buyer and I'm just the window shopper. What do I know?

[Samui]

Originally Posted by Stuxnet

Make Thierry an offer he can't refuse.

Offer to pilot his Falcon 7X for him when his regular crew are on vacation. Work out an arrangement. Ha. Ha.

I hear he is patiently waiting for a Global 7000. Should have got in line for a G650. Far superior plane. But he's the buyer and I'm just the window shopper. What do I know?

I guess even he is on a waiting list. Just a different one.