How are Brands able to rip off Rolex designs?

[socialpro]

Are watch designs patented / copyrighted, etc?

There are brands offering a 'play' on Rolex that makes them virtually indistinguishable unless its a trained eye and/or the brand on the face.

I'm not talking about 'fake' / black market replicas etc---so called 'legitimate' brands such as invicta that make a play on Rolex such as this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Invicta-9204...374%3AFeatured

With only minute difference between this watch and the rolex subs - how is this allowed? And does this devalue the Rolex / Tudor watches at all with all of this on the market?

To me these invictas are worth no more then any fake rolex out there and basically someones 'garage' experiment. How does everybody else feel ?

[Spartacus]

Steinhart watches annoy the heck out of me!

[ref1655]

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...the many 'takes' on the Sub/GMT/DJ designs are no different than the countless interpretations (and copies) of the original Fender Stratocaster design.

besides, most watch aficionados can differentiate a Rolex from an Invicta...not that there's anything wrong with an Invicta.

[socialpro]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

Steinhart watches annoy the heck out of me!

YEP! Same idea. I didn't realize how many plays on rolex there are.

Does anybody have any of these, is the quality off in comparison to a Rolex?

[77T]

"Styles" aren't patented. Otherwise nobody could have a watch from anyone other than the person who's patented a blue dial, or gold & SS, etc. Terms can be trademarked, like Submariner, Yacht-master, etc.

And it was Rolex who copied several other waterproof designs to build their own waterproof watch...something I've shared before about how we got here: http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/waterproof.php

[SMD]

Originally Posted by 77T

"Styles" aren't patented. Otherwise nobody could have a watch from anyone other than the person who's patented a blue dial, or gold & SS, etc. Terms can be trademarked, like Submariner, Yacht-master, etc.

And it was Rolex who copied several other waterproof designs to build their own waterproof watch...something I've shared before about how we got here: http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/waterproof.php

Not patents, but trade dress can be protected. AP has gone after companies that ripped off their designs, and Coke has protection of its bottle design. There are numerous tests to satisfy, there has to be a likelihood of confusion, etc. It can be done, but the design has to be very unique and indicate or identify the source of the watch.

[77T]

Originally Posted by SMD

Not patents, but trade dress can be protected. AP has gone after companies that ripped off their designs, and Coke has protection of its bottle design. There are numerous tests to satisfy, there has to be a likelihood of confusion, etc. It can be done, but the design has to be very unique and indicate or identify the source of the watch.

Yes that's true about the Coke bottle -

The company approached the Patent Office stating that the bottle's shape was so well known that it should be granted Trademark status. It was highly unusual for a package to be granted that status but the Coca-Cola bottle was recognized as a trademark. And only because the bottle had previously been in continuous Patent protection since early 20th Century did they prevail in the '60's.

I don't see anything distinctive about the shape of a Rolex that would yield the same result though.

AP didn't act in US courts afaik since it and the fakirs are based elsewhere. Did you have a reference for the AP action(s)?


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[SMD]

Originally Posted by 77T

Yes that's true about the Coke bottle -

The company approached the Patent Office stating that the bottle's shape was so well known that it should be granted Trademark status. It was highly unusual for a package to be granted that status but the Coca-Cola bottle was recognized as a trademark. And only because the bottle had previously been in continuous Patent protection since early 20th Century did they prevail in the '60's.

I don't see anything distinctive about the shape of a Rolex that would yield the same result though.

AP didn't act in US courts afaik since it and the fakirs are based elsewhere. Did you have a reference for the AP action(s)?

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Here are a couple (Hilfiger settled):

http://iwmagazine.com/news-and-now/2...n-swi-lawsuit/

http://www.law360.com/articles/48234...ade-dress-suit

Wrote law school note on trade dress protection, though that was a number of years ago.

[J!m]

Originally Posted by 77T

"Styles" aren't patented. Otherwise nobody could have a watch from anyone other than the person who's patented a blue dial, or gold & SS, etc. Terms can be trademarked, like Submariner, Yacht-master, etc.

And it was Rolex who copied several other waterproof designs to build their own waterproof watch...something I've shared before about how we got here: http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/waterproof.php

Actually you can do design patents. Although those don't last as long (7 years I think). We have several on some thermal spray guns. You can't make a part that looks like the nozzle nut nor can you make anything that would attach.

Not 25 years like typical IP but if there is a patent number listed most companies leave it alone.

[Etschell]

I don't know why one would care. It's like saying how come reebok made a high top after Nike did.

[westsideclock]

Originally Posted by Etschell

I don't know why one would care. It's like saying how come reebok made a high top after Nike did.

Well I think that is the good thing. It would be problematic if a high end brand copied Rolex. There are some that are close,but not exactly the same. It could be annoying if a mid-range company made a copy though.

[Chewbacca]

this link offers some insight...


http://www.ablogtowatch.com/ask-watc...ment-day-long/


courtesy link owner.

[socialpro]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

this link offers some insight...


http://www.ablogtowatch.com/ask-watc...ment-day-long/


courtesy link owner.

Good article - provides some insight!

Thank you for sharing.

Takeaway is that there is a buyer for each type of product, and a genuine rolex will always be that, no matter who what or where tries to rip of design or style elements from their watches.

[jinikari01]

Originally Posted by westsideclock

Well I think that is the good thing. It would be problematic if a high end brand copied Rolex. There are some that are close,but not exactly the same. It could be annoying if a mid-range company made a copy though.

[rkot07]

Well everyone wants to copy the best. No one finds a horrible brand and says let's make our product look and work like that.


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[osamu]

I was always curious about this too, when like you see AP opening lawsuits against companies with octagonal bezels, you'd think Rolex would have a case against a lot of these homage brands.

Maybe they just don't feel threatened by these companies and therefore don't bother, or maybe it has to do with the age of the Rolex design. I don't know the laws, but I'd assume with the age of the Sub and how many similar designs have existed over the years, it probably would get pretty messy to try and identify the original source of some of these "homages"

[mfer]

Originally Posted by osamu

I was always curious about this too, when like you see AP opening lawsuits against companies with octagonal bezels, you'd think Rolex would have a case against a lot of these homage brands.

Maybe they just don't feel threatened by these companies and therefore don't bother, or maybe it has to do with the age of the Rolex design. I don't know the laws, but I'd assume with the age of the Sub and how many similar designs have existed over the years, it probably would get pretty messy to try and identify the original source of some of these "homages"

I invented the octagon. Tried to file a lawsuit against the stop sign companies. Didn't work for me.

[GradyPhilpott]

Everyone copies everyone else's designs, whether it be cars, watches, airplanes, cell phones, shoes, boats, houses.

There are times when these run afoul of copyright laws, but copyright laws don't last forever.

Even high-end watch brands copy other high-end watch brands, à la AP, Patek, and Hublot.

[lain09]

Most likely the bezel, case and the dial designs cannot be patented as it is too generic. But logos and name trademarks are protected as they are distinct.
I bought a guitar called Agile from Rondo Music years back that had to change their head design multiple times as it was too similar to Gibson Les Pauls. Apparently the body of the guitars are generic enough for others to copy but the 'open-book' design of the Gibson guitar's heads are distinct enough to be able to protect.

[Rocket_Man]

In the US patents are good for 20 years. Trademarks are good for 20 years or 10 years but can be renewed. I'm assuming that is kind of similar in other places except perhaps in China where there seems to be no rules. Assuming Rolex renews their trademarks no one can legally make a watch with the Rolex crown or the name Rolex other than counterfeiters in China. But the Sub design may be public use by now. Maybe even the older movements themselves, but cheaper to use a quartz movement or mass produced Japanese/Chinese.

There are some crazy realistic Panerai homage watches. They seem to get away with it too. The Panerai case design is pretty old and may be considered public use now.

[armen34]

Look similar but not even close to a rolex inside

[520lux]

I don't think ROLEX cares because companies like invicta are not selling ROLEX watches they are selling invicta watches. IF invicta strapped a ROLEX logo on their products then there would be a problem.

Not everyone can drive a ROLLS ROYCE and not everyone can afford a ROLEX. So there are options that fit lifestyles and budgets. Some people love the ROLEX brand but can not afford it and its nice for them to have a watch that looks samilar to a ROLEX and makes them happy. The quality is so far apart thus $100 watches vs $10,000 watches. With that said they are not horrible watches and for the price and having an automatic watch is not bad.. They are actually a great watch for a young man to have and learn how to take care of a time piece...

Most people that know ROLEX will know that the guy wearing an Invicta is not wearing a ROLEX.

I am sure ROLEX would rather target wealthy folks anyways.

Cheers

[cpark]

Originally Posted by 520lux

I don't think ROLEX cares because companies like invicta are not selling ROLEX watches they are selling invicta watches. IF invicta strapped a ROLEX logo on their products then there would be a problem.

Not everyone can drive a ROLLS ROYCE and not everyone can afford a ROLEX. So there are options that fit lifestyles and budgets. Some people love the ROLEX brand but can not afford it and its nice for them to have a watch that looks samilar to a ROLEX and makes them happy. The quality is so far apart thus $100 watches vs $10,000 watches. With that said they are not horrible watches and for the price and having an automatic watch is not bad.. They are actually a great watch for a young man to have and learn how to take care of a time piece...

Most people that know ROLEX will know that the guy wearing an Invicta is not wearing a ROLEX.

I am sure ROLEX would rather target wealthy folks anyways.

Cheers

I understand that it would have Invicta's logo on it but I don't see how they can blatantly copy Rolex's designs.. It's like me starting a company with similar color scheme of mc Donald's and I have a big arch over my store with a big letter. Or if say Toyota started making cars that look pretty similar to say a Phantom? Of course Toyota would have their own Toyota badge on it, but the company would be sued, easily. Or if they copied the BMW style grill on their cars? The courts would easily rule in favor of the original manufacturer. I don't see how this doesn't apply to watch brands?

[marzzz]

It was the Tag Heuer "homage" that led me to my BLNR. Imitation truly is flattery.

[khunpepe]

it just looks similar
but nothing close the the real thing

[peterskinner]

Dive watches, such as the Sub, will tend to resemble each other because the specification for a dive watch (there is one) leads that way. You need a big bezel, very clear hands, strong waterproof case and so on. And, as has been pointed-out, Rolex weren't first anyway.
I wear a Grand Seiko quartz dive watch; I doubt that GS are copying anyone but earlier Seiko designs, but my partner still insists she can't tell it from my old Submariner.

[YuriyV]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

Dive watches, such as the Sub, will tend to resemble each other because the specification for a dive watch (there is one) leads that way. You need a big bezel, very clear hands, strong waterproof case and so on. And, as has been pointed-out, Rolex weren't first anyway.
I wear a Grand Seiko quartz dive watch; I doubt that GS are copying anyone but earlier Seiko designs, but my partner still insists she can't tell it from my old Submariner.

Agree. It is like laws of aerodynamic dictates similar aircraft design.

[landroverking]

Why all the Steinhart hate?
They seem well made, and are bigger. 42Vs40.
And the comment about " but not inside" seems a bit off.
Some just look thru Rolex goggles.
Or rose colored glasses.

[artschool]

someone say opposite to me in a meeting last week wearing the invicta sub.

i did initially think it was a rolex but was able to make out the invicta symbol.

[AgentHsu]

Used to have a TT Black Incicta that mimicked the 16613. I bought it before I could afford a sub, but was almost able to. I wanted the feel and look of the watch, without paying the price of possibly getting sick of it and needing to flip for a loss.

It was an automatic, and had a good weight balance. I wore it daily for about 2 or 3 years, at which point it stopped working consistently/keeping good time. I really did like it, in all fairness!