How valuable is this vintage Rolex?

[hambik]

It is the inheritance from my grandfather and I have no idea about it's value. Please help me. Any information about this watch would be helpful.

[adam78]

You have there an incredibly beautiful ref. 3131 18K bubbleback, with mint enamel printed dial. The "fab. suisse" and "swiss made" on the dial indicates, I believe, that it was made for the French market. Absence of coronet on the dial and the case serial number are both consistent with a (late) 1930s production. The fixed wire lugs are unusual and probably commensurate with the early production.

As to value, it is very hard to say. Although there is not a large demand for these, there are collectors who desire nice pieces. Condition and originality are key, and the case composition is also a factor. My guess is that it is probably worth between $5000-8000 (USD). If you decide to keep it you will have a winner of an heirloom.

Servicing these can be tricky, and not all watchmakers like to work on them. They need regular maintenance if you do decide to wear it.

[ar.parask13]

As Adam said this is a very beautiful family heirloom.. I would wear with pride!


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[Qinhan]

I love the dial. I'd keep it and wear it on special occasions and family get togethers if I were you.

[hambik]

Thank you so much for respond guys. As far as I understand the serial number of this watch 94618 corresponds to 1954. Am I right?

[watchlovr]

1936, you added a digit.
https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-serial-numbers

Originally Posted by hambik

Thank you so much for respond guys. As far as I understand the serial number of this watch 94618 corresponds to 1954. Am I right?

[hambik]

Originally Posted by watchlovr

1936, you added a digit.
https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-serial-numbers

And what means 44985 ?

[watchlovr]

Sorry, I took the number you quoted, which I now see from the rotor inside the watch, which would date it to 1936, I don't think that is correct.

I think what you have is:
Case number 44985
Model number 3131
Number on rotor 94618

The case number should date the watch to 1933/34
I assume the number on the rotor is to do with timing and might have had a timing certificate originally?

Please someone clear this up?

You have 3 numbers

Originally Posted by hambik

And what means 44985 ?

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by watchlovr

Sorry, I took the number you quoted, which I now see from the rotor inside the watch, which would date it to 1936, I don't think that is correct.

I think what you have is:
Case number 44985
Model number 3131
Number on rotor 94618

This is correct.
I never saw any official Rolex case number dating, and Rolex ONLY patented the self-winding watch in 1933 with first shipments Q1 1934, and that used the famous "didactic" movement - which yours is not.

We need to use the movement number which dates yours to 1939/1940
(71224 = 1939
99775 = 1940)
That makes perfect sense with that 2nd (or 3rd - need to check) generation movement.

Fantastic piece
Adam H

[Dries]

Looks very nice!

[Vincent65]

Gorgeous - love it!

[Mark020]

Serial number

[crowncollection]

A very beautiful piece enjoy


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[adam78]

I think just as interesting is how the OP's grandfather came to own this particular watch...

[GLADIATOR]

Just to add - rotor is marked "SUPER BALANCE" - that was not patented till 1935 to replace "PRIMA" models.
Again supporting a serial number of 1939/40
Adam H

[harry in montreal]

It really is one of the most beautiful watches I have ever seen on this website. I'm not a bubble back guy, but it's just a beautiful watch.

[R.W.T.]

Oh and let's not forget the UBER rare "scientific" seconds hand.

[R.W.T.]

The list I use for early watches was provided by Lance Thomas in L.A. in the 80's.

It shows 44k to be right in 1935 making sense with the super balance issues.

Now the rest of that list is fairly Inaccurate but for early stuff I find it works out pretty well.

[brandrea]

Very nice

There's absolutely no way to value such an heirloom. I'd never part with it.

[R.W.T.]

The chronometer certs are very dicey as well. We know for instance...that the movements are or were recently tested sans automatic mechanism and hand wound during testing.

I have my father's original cert with his 3065 that lists ON the cert BOTH the auto rotor serial and the 4 digit movement serial and the case number...even though...the testing facility probably shouldn't have seen anything but the 4 digit number on the base movement. Also it is odd that the number on the rotor frame (where the auto rotor number is located during this era) is actually ONE DIGIT off from the one that is on the cert meaning likely that when it got to the final assembly, it got the wrong rotor LOL. You can't make this stuff up folks.

I had another watch made within 1 year of that one....with a cert that ONLY showed the auto rotor serial number and case number and NO where was the 4 digit base movement number to be found.

The interesting thing is...my dad's watch was a later serial numbered case...with an earlier certificate date than the other watch.

Nothing makes ANY sense with Rolex during those years....one simply cannot draw ANY hard fast conclusions or absolutes. Trends possibly...

[R.W.T.]

Then you often on these flat back models.... the extra 4 digit number that is COMPLETELY irrelevant to anything that we know of. It's not the reference number, it does not correspond to the serial number of the watch or movement or rotor...it is just...some number that they stamped on the outside of the case for giggles it seems. THEY know..but we'll never know likely.

My 18k 3372 for instance has 1655 stamped above the 55k serial on the back. ????????

[77T]

Is it possible that this watch is actually a Ref. 3131?
Perhaps 1939-1940 model?

Just a sample pic of a 3131 from the Interwatches site.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1466467310.391965.jpg

[adam78]

Of course it's a ref. 3131. It's marked on the pristine outer case back (and has central seconds).

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by adam78

Of course it's a ref. 3131. It's marked on the pristine outer case back (and has central seconds).

[GLADIATOR]

OK, we know its a model 3131, that was made in both the 30s and the 40s

However on studying the movement we can see its NOT a model 1 or 2 or 3.

The model 5 was the first model to be chronometer AND movement was now serial numbered, that started circa 1942

The model 4 circa 1938 looks exactly like OPs but is not serialized numbered.

Therefore, in my opinion, this watch is between 1938-1942

It surely is not 1933 - 1936/7 - as neither those movement models fits.

For certain its an outstanding piece

Adam
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: Best of Times - Dowling & Hess

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

OK, we know its a model 3131, that was made in both the 30s and the 40s

However on studying the movement we can see its NOT a model 1 or 2 or 3.

The model 5 was the first model to be chronometer AND movement was now serial numbered, that started circa 1942

The model 4 circa 1938 looks exactly like OPs but is not serialized numbered.

Therefore, in my opinion, this watch is between 1938-1942

It surely is not 1933 - 1936/7 - as neither those movement models fits.

For certain its an outstanding piece

Adam
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: Best of Times - Dowling & Hess

I would say you will find some 3131's up into the 50's as well.

No offense intended as James is a friend of mine, but the book in question was written 2 decades ago...much of the information was based on data that was drawn and compiled from anecdotal sources and sometimes could be termed speculative and subjective in my opinion. I think as Rolex collecting has drawn more into its ranks and more information has been unearthed I don't feel like you can base some hard cold decisions on information you might find there. I think James would agree that we know more now. It's a fantastic book and it has a plethora of invaluable information and illustration, but I wouldn't etch any of that in stone with regard to release dates of series of movements etc. The truth is Rolex doesn't waste anything. They didn't one day decide that all movements of a prior nature were to be tossed and not ever used...these are what is known in manufacturing as RUNNING changes...they don't have specific date like that. They very often found another vehicle for a movement that was not the top gear for the time. You will note that the movement doesn't say Chronometer anywhere on it....only the dial does. So we really don't know...and Rolex is not going to tell you anything exactly, even if you send it. They would give you likely a rough time frame.

As I mentioned earlier...I have simultaneously owned 2 watches...one with case having a higher serial number dating a good year before another one based on timing certificates for both watches. The watches were 50 THOUSAND watches apart by case serial number...the 550,xxx cert was dated May 1947. The 505,xxx serial numbered watch was dated November 1948?????

Here is a cert for a watch I owned....this will throw you...



Serial: 68705 on the case.

Date: December 2 1938

So the watch in question is 24000 watches before that one. We're making less than 20,000 oysters a year at this point.

Like I said...cases were likely made in batches. Different movements were certified and made at different times...lots of things could have ended up anywhere...over a 1-4 year period depending on the demand. 18k watches were not a real common item for sale during the depression...I mean they did sell them but it wasn't priority for most folks...food was a bigger issue.

While I think it would be wonderful to be able to pin point dates on the 30's and 40's watches...especially in the 1940's with the war and how that effected sales worldwide, you just aren't going to be able to do that.

I think IF we can get a hallmark from the case and someone who knows how to read them for dating...having worked on as I said hundreds of these watches...of course I don't have it in hand, but I would say that it is virtually untouched. This could give a nice indicator of what year certain things are found in what. I would as I also said, like to see the base movement to see which balance it has and also what upper escape cap jewel setting it has and what crown wheel screws it has. What the color of the endstones are on the balance and escape wheel. As for the number on the rotor...that is the ROTOR serial number...NOT the movement serial number. The movement serial number is on the FRONT of the movement next to the 9 3/4H NA designation and is comprised of 4 digits.

[Old Expat Beast]

Brilliant post.

[Qinhan]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Brilliant post.

x2. A very interesting read and that certificate blows me away.

[hambik]

As I see it would be better if I post a photo of the movement without the rotor. How delicate is that procedure? Can I entrust that job to a watchmaker who was certified by Corum or it demands some special skills...?

[GLADIATOR]

Well I have no intention to argue the merits or errors of Dowling/Hess book, and yes there are some errors, but I never saw or heard any claims about the early self-winding movements.

Based on the OP watch not being a model 1 or 2 or 3 movement, and the fact Super Balance was not patented till 1935, I personally could not date the OPs watch prior to 1938.

Thats is my opinion based on all the facts I have seen (and own)

Regards
adam