Waiting list for rolex watches- an illusion?

[Kosgad]

Dear friends,
I enjoy reading the wealth of information available on this forum. Thanks a lot. I do have a question.

How many if you truly believe that there are waiting lists for some rolex watches at AD's ? Or is it just an illusion what we believe?

I feel that If you are ready to pay and have good relationship with AD then you get the watch, what ever may be your number on the list. More over many of the AD would not tell your position and you would never know if your position in moving at all?

Let us see how others feel and what is the reality😀






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[Tomas Eriksson]

Rolex control tightly control the supply to keep demand high. Even when sales has gone down there are still waiting lists for many models in most parts of the world.
A Rolex is seen as an investment by many, if Rolex would open the flood gates it could kill the second hand market which also would hurt new sales pretty soon.

That is at least my interpretation of how they operate.

[locutus49]

There are a couple of facts to consider.

World population is increasing by millions of people per year.

Overall, world economies are improving, giving citizens more disposable income.

Social media is spreading status markers in many growing economies; people internationally are recognizing brands as status markers and quality indicators.

On the other hand, younger people rely less on watches to tell time.

So, a lot of forces at play.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by locutus49

There are a couple of facts to consider.

World population is increasing by millions of people per year.

Overall, world economies are improving, giving citizens more disposable income.

Social media is spreading status markers in many growing economies; people internationally are recognizing brands as status markers and quality indicators.

On the other hand, younger people rely less on watches to tell time.

So, a lot of forces at play.

What about the waiting list?

[locutus49]

Oh, that.

Originally Posted by MonBK

What about the waiting list?

[Tommyc626]

Waiting list does exist. Expect to wait a long time even if you have purchased from a AD before.

This is what I found out. I was looking to buy a new Daytona Ceramic 116500LN. Called over 10 different AD and they have put me on their waiting list and was told the wait time is about 2 years. If i'm lucky I can get the watch in a year.

Four different AD sales REP told me that there's a general waiting list, and also the AD owners VIP list. Rep told me the owner has the final decision on who to sell the watch. So this waiting game is total BS. I ended up buying the watch from a TRF trusted seller and got my watch overnight. Yes I paid extra, and I don't regret it. I love this watch so much!!

Tommy

[peterskinner]

Is there evidence that Rolex deliberately create a shortage? When they make up to 800,000 watches a year ? Even with the ceramic Daytona they seem to be churning them out at a frantic rate.
They do not have unlimited manufacturing capacity. I suspect they make as many watches as they can manage....they offer 400 variations on the Day-just alone. And that,s just one model.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

Is there evidence that Rolex deliberately create a shortage? When they make up to 800,000 watches a year ? Even with the ceramic Daytona they seem to be churning them out at a frantic rate.
They do not have unlimited manufacturing capacity. I suspect they make as many watches as they can manage....they offer 400 variations on the Day-just alone. And that,s just one model.

I've heard this argument before and I still don't buy it. Most big ADs will get like 2 116500s a month. I don't think that's capacity. Especially when they are shipping them a boxload of other watches that aren't sold the minute they land.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I've heard this argument before and I still don't buy it. Most big ADs will get like 2 116500s a month. I don't think that's capacity. Especially when they are shipping them a boxload of other watches that aren't sold the minute they land.

It's clear that they're not shifting production to build more daytonas. Rolex decides how many of each model to make and that's it. No matter how many more they could sell.

Patek could sell more 5711s in SS, but Patek doesn't want to become a one reference brand. I think Rolex is the same.

[cornerstore]

My AD has a list and for some models it's long. But then again if everyone on a list is at ten AD's as one poster has sugggested then the lists are overstanding demand 10 fold for a new Daytona

[Muzz]

Lists I believe are utilized when the market slows down on an item. Once the grey is selling at MSRP then the lists come out.

[Chewbacca]

there's a list, but i don't think its a list way most believe... from my limited discussions with my preferred AD's and local intoxicated wis friends (non TRF); this is my tongue-in-cheek opinion... 19

1) The serious grey buyer & AD rescue buyer's list: AKA, the i can't sell these duds that are 90 days old but if you take 10 off my hands, i'll give you first dibs on my hottest incomings from the factory for your clients. AKA the buyers who are in the know and help make and reciprocate deals for AD's... the DavidSW, takuya's et al list. These people help AD's move stock which helps us get stock. every large market has them, they're usually under the radar or venture off on their own. Deals done by reputation and verbal agreements are as good as written contracts.

2) The serious regular, non-sport haggler, non-tirekicker list who always get a fair deal because they buy if you call them: AKA, the Dr.Tom's, some of the mods etc... The store usually stays open after close for these folks.

3) The salespersons list: AKA, the full list price buyers traditionally in tourist, large metro locations who buy then-and-there so they have to have the stock available (in the back) to sell at full or near-full gross. These are not always on display but if you're there for a business trip, you'll get it before you're delayed in Atlanta for 4 hrs.

4) The negotiated price WIS's list with deposit or paid in full: AKA, the deal is done but you've got some time to deliver, so if there's a full price buyer in front of you, you'll sell it and work hard to get a replacement to sell at the negotiated price. The owner or manager of the AD can nix this deal at any time for a VIP but will replace the item asap as it's already a done deal.

5) The known-in-the-store WIS' list: AKA, the longer lead-time known browser/enthusiast who does eventually buy, but isn't overly immediate with the purchase. Usually has options in the non-AD world/forum and is well informed with what's hype and what isn't.

6) The 'I'm on the list' listers: AKA, there's no list but if you call them, they'll be good for a sale if your 2 - 5 doesn't show up or is AWOL for a few days in Maranello

7) The smaller market list, list: AKA, the indy AD that does it for the love and really doesn't care if they don't hit a home run with a sale but are happy that a good local client will help with referrals and the occasional shout out. Their list is on a napkin but they're good for it. You'll get the watch you want but they may not stay in business for much longer.

20!!!

[Kosgad]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

there's a list, but i don't think its a list way most believe... from my limited discussions with my preferred AD's and local intoxicated wis friends (non TRF); this is my tongue-in-cheek opinion... 19

1) The serious grey buyer & AD rescue buyer's list: AKA, the i can't sell these duds that are 90 days old but if you take 10 off my hands, i'll give you first dibs on my hottest incomings from the factory for your clients. AKA the buyers who are in the know and help make and reciprocate deals for AD's... the DavidSW, takuya's et al list. These people help AD's move stock which helps us get stock. every large market has them, they're usually under the radar or venture off on their own. Deals done by reputation and verbal agreements are as good as written contracts.

2) The serious regular, non-sport haggler, non-tirekicker list who always get a fair deal because they buy if you call them: AKA, the Dr.Tom's, some of the mods etc... The store usually stays open after close for these folks.

3) The salespersons list: AKA, the full list price buyers traditionally in tourist, large metro locations who buy then-and-there so they have to have the stock available (in the back) to sell at full or near-full gross. These are not always on display but if you're there for a business trip, you'll get it before you're delayed in Atlanta for 4 hrs.

4) The negotiated price WIS's list with deposit or paid in full: AKA, the deal is done but you've got some time to deliver, so if there's a full price buyer in front of you, you'll sell it and work hard to get a replacement to sell at the negotiated price. The owner or manager of the AD can nix this deal at any time for a VIP but will replace the item asap as it's already a done deal.

5) The known-in-the-store WIS' list: AKA, the longer lead-time known browser/enthusiast who does eventually buy, but isn't overly immediate with the purchase. Usually has options in the non-AD world/forum and is well informed with what's hype and what isn't.

6) The 'I'm on the list' listers: AKA, there's no list but if you call them, they'll be good for a sale if your 2 - 5 doesn't show up or is AWOL for a few days in Maranello

7) The smaller market list, list: AKA, the indy AD that does it for the love and really doesn't care if they don't hit a home run with a sale but are happy that a good local client will help with referrals and the occasional shout out. Their list is on a napkin but they're good for it. You'll get the watch you want but they may not stay in business for much longer.

20!!!

Thanks chewbacca for interesting comments.

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[keschete]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

there's a list, but i don't think its a list way most believe... from my limited discussions with my preferred AD's and local intoxicated wis friends (non TRF); this is my tongue-in-cheek opinion... 19

1) The serious grey buyer & AD rescue buyer's list: AKA, the i can't sell these duds that are 90 days old but if you take 10 off my hands, i'll give you first dibs on my hottest incomings from the factory for your clients. AKA the buyers who are in the know and help make and reciprocate deals for AD's... the DavidSW, takuya's et al list. These people help AD's move stock which helps us get stock. every large market has them, they're usually under the radar or venture off on their own. Deals done by reputation and verbal agreements are as good as written contracts.

2) The serious regular, non-sport haggler, non-tirekicker list who always get a fair deal because they buy if you call them: AKA, the Dr.Tom's, some of the mods etc... The store usually stays open after close for these folks.

3) The salespersons list: AKA, the full list price buyers traditionally in tourist, large metro locations who buy then-and-there so they have to have the stock available (in the back) to sell at full or near-full gross. These are not always on display but if you're there for a business trip, you'll get it before you're delayed in Atlanta for 4 hrs.

4) The negotiated price WIS's list with deposit or paid in full: AKA, the deal is done but you've got some time to deliver, so if there's a full price buyer in front of you, you'll sell it and work hard to get a replacement to sell at the negotiated price. The owner or manager of the AD can nix this deal at any time for a VIP but will replace the item asap as it's already a done deal.

5) The known-in-the-store WIS' list: AKA, the longer lead-time known browser/enthusiast who does eventually buy, but isn't overly immediate with the purchase. Usually has options in the non-AD world/forum and is well informed with what's hype and what isn't.

6) The 'I'm on the list' listers: AKA, there's no list but if you call them, they'll be good for a sale if your 2 - 5 doesn't show up or is AWOL for a few days in Maranello

7) The smaller market list, list: AKA, the indy AD that does it for the love and really doesn't care if they don't hit a home run with a sale but are happy that a good local client will help with referrals and the occasional shout out. Their list is on a napkin but they're good for it. You'll get the watch you want but they may not stay in business for much longer.

20!!!

Yes, this exactly!

[dcash0615]

Wait lists really are meaningless at AD's. The AD will sell the watch to what they perceive are their good customers first regardless of who is on the list. It really doesn't matter if you were first to call the AD to be put on the list or not. The AD will offer the watch to their best customers first.

Here is an example of what I mean:
I have a great relationship with my AD. I emailed the owner within an hour of the Daytona C being anounced at Basel letting him know I want the watch in either dial color. My AD was at Basel and when he saw the new Daytona C he knew I would want it and expected a call, text, or email from me. He said I was the first to inquiry about it. When he received their first two he called me letting me know and that they were both going to very good customers first who he said do a lot of business with them each year. He said I will get the next one. I'm cool with that as I know I'm not his largest or longest loyal customer.

Moral of the story is I was first on the so called list and didn't receive the first allocation they received and I expected that. What I appreciated was the honesty from the beginning as he didn't have to call me letting me know he received his first allocation. Said he was torn on who to sell them to first.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by dcash0615

Wait lists really are meaningless at AD's. The AD will sell the watch to what they perceive are their good customers first regardless of who is on the list. It really doesn't matter if you were first to call the AD to be put on the list or not. The AD will offer the watch to their best customers first.

Here is an example of what I mean:
I have a great relationship with my AD. I emailed the owner within an hour of the Daytona C being anounced at Basel letting him know I want the watch in either dial color. My AD was at Basel and when he saw the new Daytona C he knew I would want it and expected a call, text, or email from me. He said I was the first to inquiry about it. When he received their first two he called me letting me know and that they were both going to very good customers first who he said do a lot of business with them each year. He said I will get the next one. I'm cool with that as I know I'm not his largest or longest loyal customer.

Moral of the story is I was first on the so called list and didn't receive the first allocation they received and I expected that. What I appreciated was the honesty from the beginning as he didn't have to call me letting me know he received his first allocation. Said he was torn on who to sell them to first.

It sounds like you have a good and honest relationship with your dealer
That's about all that one can expect

[Timesurfer]

- I think there is a so called list...
- I also believe its not a standard linear counting progression, meaning the 8 might come before the 6 and other interesting "anomalies" ;-)

[Kosgad]

Originally Posted by Timesurfer

- I think there is a so called list...
- I also believe its not a standard linear counting progression, meaning the 8 might come before the 6 and other interesting "anomalies" ;-)

Absolutely true.
You might be 2nd or 3rd on the list and stay there for ever even though they get supply of that particular model regularly. There is no way of proving or disproving that.

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[scombs263]

I have a special relationship with an AD. Recently I inquired about the new ceramic Daytona and was told the list had 24 names on it and they will get maybe 2-3 a year right now. He told me he could get me one by summer, which is about 6-8 months. He would be putting me at the top of the list. So I believe they have discretion of their lists and exercise it with valued/loyal clients they want to take care of.

[nick h]

Originally Posted by scombs263

I have a special relationship with an AD. Recently I inquired about the new ceramic Daytona and was told the list had 24 names on it and they will get maybe 2-3 a year right now. He told me he could get me one by summer, which is about 6-8 months. He would be putting me at the top of the list. So I believe they have discretion of their lists and exercise it with valued/loyal clients they want to take care of.

this truthfully sums it up - its not what you know but who you know

in other words lists are just a marketing ploy to create demand that exceeds supply - whilst all it really does is help re sellers/grey market

however its not just Rolex - through contacts i have totally avoided all waiting lists on items heavily in demand and out of stock

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by nick h

however its not just Rolex - through contacts i have totally avoided all waiting lists on items heavily in demand and out of stock

Such as?

[nick h]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Such as?

various such as cars/high end audio and home cinema equipment/and especially art

if you ever want to explore the strangest market in the world have a look at original art - and i'm not talking grand masters, but work starting at say £1K

when i started collecting so many doors were closed - people would not even return my calls!

after a while when it becomes known that you are a genuine buyer opportunities do occur but you have to act quickly

and i NEVER buy at auction - you really risk your sanity and finances - its like jumping into a pool of man eating sharks

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by nick h

various such as cars/high end audio and home cinema equipment/and especially art

if you ever want to explore the strangest market in the world have a look at original art - and i'm not talking grand masters, but work starting at say £1K

when i started collecting so many doors were closed - people would not even return my calls!

after a while when it becomes known that you are a genuine buyer opportunities do occur but you have to act quickly

and i NEVER buy at auction - you really risk your sanity and finances - its like jumping into a pool of man eating sharks

Interesting, never thought of waiting lists for audio/cinema equipment or art.

[Abdullah71601]

Three different AD's told me your priority on the list depends primarily on two factors. One, did you pay full price in advance. Two, are you one of their best customers. Number one beats out number two on low allocation watches. If you are neither of these, you have a long wait.

I have no reason to doubt this, since it would be the way I would do it. Money talks, BS walks. If you're not inclined to prepay, you won't be at the head of the line.

[nick h]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Three different AD's told me your priority on the list depends primarily on two factors. One, did you pay full price in advance. Two, are you one of their best customers. Number one beats out number two on low allocation watches. If you are neither of these, you have a long wait.

I have no reason to doubt this, since it would be the way I would do it. Money talks, BS walks. If you're not inclined to prepay, you won't be at the head of the line.

of course you could look at it in another way?

maybe a 'new' AD you approach could be keen to get you as a regular customer so will go the 'extra mile' to get you a 'listed watch'?

when i was recently buggered about by an AD i had previously used (wanted another Datejust after price rise)

went to a totally new AD and got 8% discount on new prices

new AD has now got all my future business - particularly as they are a small family group and not a UK wide dealership under various names

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by nick h

of course you could look at it in another way?

maybe a 'new' AD you approach could be keen to get you as a regular customer so will go the 'extra mile' to get you a 'listed watch'?

when i was recently buggered about by an AD i had previously used (wanted another Datejust after price rise)

went to a totally new AD and got 8% discount on new prices

new AD has now got all my future business - particularly as they are a small family group and not a UK wide dealership under various names

Or, it might just be that your new AD consistently discounts to move stock.

Now, if the new guy discounted 8% on the old price, you'd have something. Considering he paid Rolex for it under the old scheme, he essentially sold it to you for October's full retail.

[nick h]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Or, it might just be that your new AD consistently discounts to move stock.

Now, if the new guy discounted 8% on the old price, you'd have something. Considering he paid Rolex for it under the old scheme, he essentially sold it to you for October's full retail.

sorry but your wrong!

the watch was ordered AFTER the price rise and was not in stock at the dealers and had to be ordered from Rolex UK which took seven days - and i saw the dated delivery 'slip' for said watch after price rise

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by nick h

sorry but your wrong!

the watch was ordered AFTER the price rise and was not in stock at the dealers and had to be ordered from Rolex UK which took seven days - and i saw the dated delivery 'slip' for said watch after price rise

Awesome!

You got it for October full retail under the new price scheme.

[keschete]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Three different AD's told me your priority on the list depends primarily on two factors. One, did you pay full price in advance. Two, are you one of their best customers. Number one beats out number two on low allocation watches. If you are neither of these, you have a long wait.

I have no reason to doubt this, since it would be the way I would do it. Money talks, BS walks. If you're not inclined to prepay, you won't be at the head of the line.

I didn't put a deposit on my Daytona C at all. That said, they know me and if I order something they know I will pay for it. It was understood that I would not get a discount. I am a good customer but I am sure I am not their "best customer". I asked for the black face Daytona before any other customers and they counted that as a sold order. The AD told me there were other people waiting behind me who did put money down. I think it depends on your AD, their honesty and your relationship with them.

[Jack T]

After reading this thread one thing is clear...lists are an illusion.