FYI... PP 2 yr. warranty is non transferable to the second owner.

[Dancing Fire]

My BIL took my PP 5396 to HSW in NYC for service and he was told that the factory 2 yr. warranty is non transferable.My watch still have about 2 months remaining on the factory warranty, but HSW say they will not honor the remaining two months of the warranty. PP said they will Email me with an estimate in about two weeks.

Dosen't other major watch companies honor their factory warranty no matter who is the original owner?..

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by Dancing Fire

My BIL took my PP 5396 to HSW in NYC for service and he was told that the factory 2 yr. warranty is non transferable.My watch still have about 2 months remaining on the factory warranty, but HSW say they will not honor the remaining two months of the warranty. PP said they will Email me with an estimate in about two weeks.



Dosen't other major watch companies honor their factory warranty no matter who is the original owner?..

This (non-transferable) is what I've heard from my AD as well.

[martinr]

So you're saying that if you buy a preowned Patek still under warranty and there is a problem Patek will charge to fix it? That's insane. What about all the for sale watches that state "plenty of warranty left", no warranty? How does a policy like this take effect and when did it happen? Also, what about buying a BNIB Patek from a grey dealer with someone else's name on the certificate, forget about any warranty?

[Dancing Fire]

Originally Posted by martinr

So you're saying that if you buy a preowned Patek still under warranty and there is a problem Patek will charge to fix it? That's insane. What about all the for sale watches that state "plenty of warranty left", no warranty? How does a policy like this take effect and when did it happen? Also, what about buying a BNIB Patek from a grey dealer with someone else's name on the certificate, forget about any warranty?

Yup!, AFAIK.
Yup, no warranty.
Yup, forget about any warranty.

Spoke on the phone with the service manager at HSW and it sounds like I'll have to pay for the repair. I am waiting for an Email from HSW hoping that they'll reconsider and repair my watch as a courtesy.

[jon_jon]

Very interesting discussion indeed. So HSWA and Geneva are honoring warranty work to original owners only.

Any experiences in London, Paris and other regions?

This can certainly kill the gray market if the warranty only applies to original owners.

[kimmop]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

Very interesting discussion indeed. So HSWA and Geneva are honoring warranty work to original owners only.

Any experiences in London, Paris and other regions?

This can certainly kill the gray market if the warranty only applies to original owners.

As already mentioned, EU consumer law would say that if it's an original manufacturer piece and there is warranty left, change of ownership doesn't matter.

In fact, the current interpretation of EU consumer laws would give you even more protection but the point here is clear: this wouldn't ride in London / Paris / EU in general.

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by kimmop

As already mentioned, EU consumer law would say that if it's an original manufacturer piece and there is warranty left, change of ownership doesn't matter.

In fact, the current interpretation of EU consumer laws would give you even more protection but the point here is clear: this wouldn't ride in London / Paris / EU in general.

Since Switzerland is technically not part of the EU, then I suppose Geneva would be exempt from this consumer law. Nevertheless it would be good to get clarification if the new warranty issue is regional or more widespread.

[cmcm3]

There's no way they'll get away with that in Europe.

[Socal to az]

If this is true, this is new and obviously a way to combat the grey market.

[Dancing Fire]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

If this is true, this is new and obviously a way to combat the grey market.

Yup, that's what I was told. I can understand if the CoO was left blank, but mine was stamped and dated by an AD, but still no good?..

[de66]

Its a sure fire way to make your customers lose faith in the quality of the brand.
New watches are not always available, whether due to budget or supply constraints.

A warranty covers the product. Not the owner. Its not a personalized insurance policy.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by de66

Its a sure fire way to make your customers lose faith in the quality of the brand.
New watches are not always available, whether due to budget or supply constraints.

A warranty covers the product. Not the owner. Its not a personalized insurance policy.

Apparently HSWA say they’re mirroring Geneva’s policy, which is that if the name on the CoO is not the one bringing or sending it in for a warranty claim, then the remainder of the manufacturer warranty is void.

As I said over on WUS, the UK distributor confirmed that only a copy of a valid CoO (signed, dated, and AD stamped/written details) is required, irrespective of whomever is the current legal owner.
And again, I suggest you find a bit of spare time to have a brief chat (15-20 mins free?) with a lawyer, vis-a-vis how the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 pertains to secondary ownership of products for which a manufacturer has given a written warranty to.

Personally, I believe HWSA is acting outside of this Federal Statute, and trying to impose a non-binding arbitrary policy – so unless they offer to perform a warranty repair, accept nothing and don’t instruct them to do anything, until you’ve clarified your position under local and/or Federal Consumer Law.


From http://www.patek.com/en/retail-netwo...cate-of-origin

Certificate of Origin
Every Patek Philippe comes with a Certificate of Origin. This certificate is like the watch's birth certificate, it shows the full details pertaining to your watch. The certificate also serves as your guarantee and also means that your watch is registered in our archives as every Patek Philippe watch has its own serial numbers recorded in the firm’s archive registers. The Certificate is unique and must be kept safely. No duplicate will be issued if lost.

For the guarantee to be valid, the certificate must be properly filled out, dated and stamped by an Authorized Patek Philippe retailer. The Certificate of Origin is only valid if the watch was sold by an Authorized Patek Philippe retailer.

Our Guarantee
The Patek Philippe guarantee is based on the following terms and conditions:
A Patek Philippe watch is guaranteed for a period of two years from the date of purchase specified on the Certificate of Origin. The guarantee is valid only for timepieces accompanied by a signed, dated and stamped Certificate of Origin delivered by an Authorized Patek Philippe retailer from whom the watch was purchased. The guarantee will be considered void if the Certificate of Origin is incomplete or has been modified or altered in any way.
The guarantee covers all manufacturing faults and material defects as confirmed by an Authorized Patek Philippe Service Center only. Any claim under the terms of the guarantee must be made via one of our worldwide official Patek Philippe agents or officially Authorized Service Centers.

The guarantee does not cover:

• Normal 'wear and tear' and abuse such as dropping, hitting of the watch, exposure of a non water-resistant watch to wet conditions, etc
• Leather straps
• Batteries for quartz watches
• Damage arising from servicing performed by a non-authorized Patek Philippe representative.

Any intervention carried out under the terms of this guarantee does not extend its validity or affect its conditions.

[HorologyK]

Confirmed this with Larry P. last week at HSWA. Warranty void if name on COO doesn't match person sending or bringing in for warranty service.


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[77T]

If the written warranty limits the benefits solely to the original owner, then it is legal in USA. Magnuson-Moss is silent on that point.

If the written warranty is not specifically limited then an implied warranty exists (that any owner may benefit during the warranty period).

Many people don't understand the Act - here is a great resource: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...#Magnuson-Moss


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[texex91]

That's brutal if true...great way to drive people away.

[martinr]

Originally Posted by texex91

That's brutal if true...great way to drive people away.

No kidding. The dumbest move ever! Think about the many people that buy not really sure about the watch but willing to take a hit if they don't really like it and sell to another collector or trusted seller. Now the hit they take is going to be that much bigger. Combine that with the past few years of questionable quality control and who in their right mind will want to buy a new Patek unless they have unlimited funds and just don't give a shit. Incredibly short sighted in my opinion.

[Marciano490]

Many contracts are non-transferable and don't run with land or chattel. It's an attempt to stomp out grey sales, particularly - I assume - of application pieces. We'll see how it goes for them.

[jschmidtdmd]

^ As someone considering the purchase of an expensive Patek right now, this really concerns me.

[PJ S]

And from page 20 – Taking care of your watch – http://www.patek.com/pdf/instruction..._QA_LU_24H.pdf – online PDF version of owners manual.

Certificate Of Origin
A Certificate of Origin was issued for your watch. Among other information, it indicates the movement and case numbers. It must be signed and dated by an Authorized Patek Philippe Retailer. It guarantees the authenticity of your watch and validates your warranty privileges.
The unique movement and case numbers of each watch are transcribed into the workshop journals, and each owner of a Patek Philippe watch may use the registration card supplied with the watch to be added to the Patek Philippe “Register of Owners.”
Registered owners are entitled to receive the periodically published International Patek Philippe Magazine free of charge.

As mentioned in a comment above, the written warranty does not stipulate that it is restricted to the original purchaser solely, and as per the M-M Act, is therefore a Limited Warranty, as opposed to Full Warranty.
Nevertheless, the Act states that:

(a) Full and conspicuous disclosure of terms and conditions; additional requirements for contents in order to improve the adequacy of information available to consumers, prevent deception, and improve competition in the marketing of consumer products, any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty shall, to the extent required by rules of the Commission, fully and conspicuously disclose in simple and readily understood language the terms and conditions of such warranty. Such rules may require inclusion in the written warranty of any of the following items among others:

(2) The identity of the party or parties to whom the warranty is extended.
(13) The elements of the warranty in words or phrases which would not mislead a reasonable, average consumer as to the nature or scope of the warranty.

Taken from https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/2302

It would be my understanding, as a “reasonable, average consumer”, that there is no limitation to which owner the warranty only ever applies.

[77T]

Pretty clear to me.
"...and validates your warranty privileges"

Not your and your heirs and assigns...just "your"...

Not your warranty rights - just your privileges....


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[lapince]

Ok so this is insane, but if you go where they don't know you, I would be really extremely surprised if you give them the watch that they will know you are the second owner, if you didn't register the watch don't and do that. Can't believe they could do that, the warranty is on a product, not an owner, shameful if true, had I known that I would NEVER have bought my first 2 Patek as they were new but second hand, and I would not own any today having been disgusted by the brand, way to go if they want to turn people away in a huge way, plus I think that's illegal as hell

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by 77T

Pretty clear to me.
"...and validates your warranty privileges"

Not your and your heirs and assigns...just "your"...

Not your warranty rights - just your privileges....

That’s purely how you’re choosing to read/interpret it as – at best, it’s ambiguous.
The word your, which you’re latching on to, can apply equally to the 3rd owner, as it does the original buyer.
It even states the requirements – "signed and dated by an Authorized PP Retailer”.

So as long as the CoO is filled out accordingly, the warranty is applicable to the legal title holder of the goods.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by pj s

that’s purely how you’re choosing to read/interpret it as – at best, it’s ambiguous.
The word your, which you’re latching on to, can apply equally to the 3rd owner, as it does the original buyer.
It even states the requirements – "signed and dated by an authorized pp retailer”.

So as long as the coo is filled out accordingly, the warranty is applicable to the legal title holder of the goods.

+1

[AK797]

The sea-change to a limited warranty has to be announced more publicly than this and cannot apply to already bought pieces surely.

[texex91]

If I need to hire an attorney to understand my watch warranty, there's an issue.

BTW - 2 years is a weak warranty period for price the point IMHO.

Rolex - 5 years
RM - 5 years
AP - 3 years

[conkers]

This is pretty shocking. I think a lawyer would have a field day with this if PP denied a warranty claim on this basis.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by conkers

This is pretty shocking. I think a lawyer would have a field day with this if PP denied a warranty claim on this basis.

As a lawyer, I'd advise you that the repair would be far less than hiring me. Now, a class action...

On the other hand, I disagree with PJS reading. Patek puts your name on the papers. It's signed by the AD, as referred to in his quote. It seems pretty clear the "your" is addressed to the person whose name is on the materials.

[Dancing Fire]

Originally Posted by conkers

This is pretty shocking. I think a lawyer would have a field day with this if PP denied a warranty claim on this basis.

Roger
PP will probably treat you with much higher regard since you do own a big and very expensive collection. This is my 4th PP, but I'm still a little fish in a big pond, so I guess PP don't give a $hit about a little fish like me.

[conkers]

Originally Posted by Dancing Fire

Roger
PP will probably treat you with much higher regard since you do own a big and very expensive collection. This is my 4th PP, but I'm still a little fish in a big pond, so I guess PP don't give a $hit about a little fish like me.

In theory you would think this would be the case, but in practice we are all small fish in a big pond. I have never received any sort of preferential treatment, invitations, gifts, allocation of limited pieces etc..

[Dancing Fire]

This is the second paragraph on the back of PP's certificate of origin.

The guarantee is valid only for timepieces accompanied by a signed, dated and stamped Certificate of Origin given to the purchaser by an Authorized Patek Philippe retailer from whom the watch was purchased.


The bold part is where they got me by the balls.