Ceramic Daytona Premium - My Perspective

[Chadridv]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just looking to add a little perspective to what is a relativity polarizing subject.

To no one's surprise, the Daytona C's hit the market with soaring premiums. I admit I never ever thought I'd be willing to pay the premium to get my hands on one. But this is mostly because I didn't really have much interest in modern Daytonas to begin with.

Anyhow, fast forward to about a year after the initial 2016 Basel Announcement, i found myself in a situation to trade into a LNIB Daytona 116500LN (basically brand new - but not my name on the card). Without getting into the details of the trade, I put myself in to this watch for a little more than $15k. Based on market value, I believe this to be a great deal. Based on MSRP, it obviously sucks.

But here's what I'm thinking...

I've owned my 116500LN for almost 2 months now, and it's quickly rivaled my LVC as my favorite watch. Between my Super Jubilee Bracelet, OEM PCL Oyster Bracelet, and my Everest Rubber Band, it's easily become more versatile than my LVC and is simply a pleasure to wear for any occasion.

Most people are paying secondary market on the LN $16k-18k. Since I paid $15k, let's split the difference and hypothetically discuss this based on a purchase price of $16.5k.

I'm also hearing from most (normal non-"VIP" people) that the estimated wait time for the DaytonaC is 4+years. Then of course there's an entirely different group of people that can't get on a list at all.

So let's say the wait time is 4 years (which i think is optimistic). MSRP is $12,400 + about $1100 for tax (most states) which leaves a premium of $4100. That means you'd be paying about $750 a year to enjoy your Daytona.

I personally am happy to pay that premium to enjoy this watch NOW, after all life is short :)

Is it better to pay less? Of course.

Would it be very nice to have a good enough relationship with your AD to get on the top of a list? Of course.

But for everyone else considering paying the premium to cut the line and for everyone else who thinks it's crazy to, I just wanted to contribute that I couldn't be happier to have mine in hand (on the wrist) TODAY! Well worth it IMO :)

PICS!

[sensui]

Great shots, looks good on you. I personally wouldn't pay over msrp for the watch but I did get it pretty early last year....can't deny it's a great watch and you are absolutely right in the regard that if you love this watch that much and you're not yet on a promising list, I'd pay the premium without flinching to have it on today versus waiting for years. Because I'm not in the camp of seeing this watch as a must have (albeit awesome), I'd actually pay a bit more and buy into a PM Daytona instead with a more interesting dial. My wife tells me I'm crazy though, she loves the white Daytona probably the most out of my entire collection....especially over the "vintage crap" I've been buying lol.

I'm thankful there are reliable options though markup or not via our favorite sellers should we need it without the wait.

[schnitzerphilip]

Great narrative. I agree wholeheartedly. I went grey, didn't look back. Two things:

Your math is wrong, in your example the delta is $3000. Love the jubilee bracelet...can you share the model number and where you got it?

[904VT]

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

Great narrative. I agree wholeheartedly. I went grey, didn't look back. Two things:

Your math is wrong, in your example the delta is $3000. Love the jubilee bracelet...can you share the model number and where you got it?

The OP probably added the $1100 tax estimate on top of the $16.5k so called median, because technically taxes are due in most states, even if not always in practice.

Congrats OP! IMO still a great value at a premium compared to what you typically pay for a comparable quality Chrono and in-house. Blancpain, AP, VC etc. don't give as much value IMO $12.4k is serverly underpriced in current market.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Most people are paying secondary market on the LN $16k-18k. Since I paid $15k, let's split the difference and hypothetically discuss this based on a purchase price of $16.5k.

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

Great narrative. I agree wholeheartedly. I went grey, didn't look back. Two things:

Your math is wrong, in your example the delta is $3000. Love the jubilee bracelet...can you share the model number and where you got it?

Thanks for the comments! Yeah see above and below. I was basing my math on a hypothetical number, not my actual purchase price.

Originally Posted by 904VT

The OP probably added the $1100 tax estimate on top of the $16.5k so called median, because technically taxes are due in most states, even if not always in practice.

Congrats OP! IMO still a great value at a premium compared to what you typically pay for a comparable quality Chrono and in-house. Blancpain, AP, VC etc. don't give as much value IMO $12.4k is serverly underpriced in current market.

Thanks! Yeah, that's more like it with the math. Average price $16.5k, out the door AD MSRP Price w/tax $13.5k. Premium is $3k, divided by 4 years + $750 per year.

[Bigsykedaddy]

I normally don't like to pay over retail for certain things but in this case I understand it. If you really love the Daytona and don't want to wait 4 years I don't think paying $1,500 over list is all that bad (you said $12,500 + $1,000 in tax and you paid $15,000 so that's a $1,500 difference. Not too bad to get it four years early if you really want it )

Looks awesome btw. Your pic of it on the everest has made me rethink my preference for the white dial

[padi56]

Main problem as long as there are some willing to pay premium prices then prices will stay high.Although myself not a fan of the modern Daytona all models,personally I would not pay a premium for any watch.

[wytrader]

Originally Posted by padi56

Main problem as long as there are some willing to pay premium prices then prices will stay high.

Here is where I think many people's logic is off. Everything is supply and demand. The "problem" is that at 13k there are around 20x as many demanded as there are supplied. Thus the equilibrium market price rises.

I would be REALLY curious to know how many people would buy the Daytona from AD's if MSRP was 17k and freely available. I believe Rolex have a marketing and branding Gem in the form of the SS Daytona and they know it, and milk it to the max.

[Swiss Mad!]

Originally Posted by wytrader

Here is where I think many people's logic is off. Everything is supply and demand. The "problem" is that at 13k there are around 20x as many demanded as there are supplied. Thus the equilibrium market price rises.

I would be REALLY curious to know how many people would buy the Daytona from AD's if MSRP was 17k and freely available. I believe Rolex have a marketing and branding Gem in the form of the SS Daytona and they know it, and milk it to the max.

How are Rolex milking the situation?

Rolex only sell each watch once! so make make exactly the same profit on each one - no more no less.

Its what happens to the watch AFTER Rolex have sold it thats the problem.

Rolex dont supply watches to grey dealers directly only to Authourised Dealers who are supposed to sell at RRP to regular Joe's like you and me.

Unfortunately, some of these AD's are shifting stuff through the back door to the highest bidder and making extra proffit behind Rolex's back.

Its the grey dealers that are making all the additional cash not Rolex themselves.

Rolex are only sellling the same number of watches so arn't making any more or any less profit than they would if grey dealers didnt exist.

Rolex arn't the problem - the grey dealers and the people that supply them are.

Think about it - if all those watches currently being sold on websites like Chrono24 that are advertised as 'BNIB unworn with stickers' had never ended up on those websites and had remained with the AD Rolex originally supplied them to, there wouldnt be the ridiculous shortage of available watches that there is currently.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

Rolex arn't the problem - the grey dealers and the people that supply them are.

Think about it - if all those watches currently being sold on websites like Chrono24 that are advertised as 'BNIB unworn with stickers' had never ended up on those websites and had remained with the AD Rolex originally supplied them to, there wouldnt be the ridiculous shortage of available watches that there is currently.

I am so glad you posted this because it is an incorrect thesis, it's a myth really, and needs discussion.

If you had your way and those Daytona's that wound up in the grey market for $18,000 were controlled and stayed with their original AD's for $12,400 you would have the same ridiculous shortage and a massive brand problem for Rolex.

At MSRP, you'd have all those Daytona's going only to the big buyers at each AD, most of whom would buy them because $12,400 is cheap to them and there is no risk of losing money. They'd put them in a safe for a decade or two, sell them at a profit years later, they wouldn't care about actually wearing it.

And with no grey market, you'd have thousands of Average Joe's (raises hand) swallowed up in frustration, prevented from ever getting their hands on one, we'd be on 10-15 different AD waiting lists for 10-15 years before the next model came out and we, again, move to the back of the line.

The grey market is good for everyone. It's good for the AD who in a tough economic environment gets a cash bonus through the back door. It's a bonus for the grey dealer who also helps the AD's move dead inventory that doesn't sell, it's not an easy business. And, big win, it's good for the Average Joe (raises hand) who instead of being frustrated and hateful of the Rolex brand can feel like part of the insiders-club because all that takes is a few thousands dollars and that's not so hard to pony up.

Point is, if Rolex really controlled things and shut the back door to the grey market, average buyers would still never see a new SS Daytona and instead of a competitive market of secondary watch dealers, you'd have a bunch of really rich guys hoarding them and eventually trickling them out on eBay. It's better the current way. It's actually cheaper and easier for the Average Joe this way.

[lovetherolex]

Originally Posted by padi56

Main problem as long as there are some willing to pay premium prices then prices will stay high.Although myself not a fan of the modern Daytona all models,personally I would not pay a premium for any watch.

Agreed, this ruins it for everyone else. The prices stay high and they take advantage of people because we allow them to.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by lovetherolex

Agreed, this ruins it for everyone else. The prices stay high and they take advantage of people because we allow them to.

Well this is not addressing the basic imbalance of supply and demand which Rolex could manipulate to their will at any time but they choose this situation and market, so I don't believe in "blaming the victim/customer" as it were, and absolving Rolex.

[SC11]

It looks good on you and life's to short to worry!

People say never pay over retail but if it was a case of 6 months wait I could understand but if I wanted something and was looking at 2 years plus I'd pay the premium.

[Etschell]

The cermaic Daytona will never sell for msrp. Will always be above. There is the forums hot take.

[jazznpool]

What you're saying makes perfect sense. At the moment I do not consider the SS Daytona C a must have--or I'd pony up the extra bread to buy one from a grey market seller. If one is made available to me from one of the lists I'm on through the near future, I'm a buyer. Otherwise it's not a big deal. Fortunately I have other Rolex watches to wear that I prefer more than the SS Daytona C and there is another PM Rolex watch I'm likely to purchase by the end of the year. Given future Baselworld releases, the SS Daytona C could fall off my radar screen entirely. I'm sure I'm not alone in this line of thought.

[anakyn101]

I perfectly agree with you! Congratulations!

[Gaijin]

This is polarizing but to each his own. If someone wants to pay the premium I'm ok with that. I won't.


I also will never play the list game with an AD that I have a good relationship with. Played that game back in 2005-2006 for the SS Daytona and got bold face lied to and jerked around as Daytonas were going out the backdoor. Never again.


Congratulations on your's. It looks great.

[george023]

Here's my issue with paying over list price. And I'm in Australia so I'll use the AUD figures.

List price here is $15700. If I pay the going rate which is currently $25-26000, I'll enjoy it for years to come. But let's say that in the next 5 years the supply increases, I won't be able to sell it anywhere near what I paid for it, in the event I needed to find some capital. I'm waiting it out for now, putting my name on lists and working the network as hard as possible.

By the way yours look great on you, especially the rubber strap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gaijin]

I don't suspect that the supply will increase. It never did on the older version we just had the 2008 economic crash which kinda leveled things out.

[grnbean]

Nice shots Chad! loving the different bracelet options you have there.
I think another thing to consider is the prices increases that Rolex will most likely have on the Daytona (as well as all their other models) to close the premium gap even further through the 4 years.

[Singslinger]

It's a nice watch for sure but for me, even if it's a "must-have'', I would not pay over the RRP.

[Ruud Van Driver]

I wouldn't pay that sort of money, absolutely no way. There are far more watches of interest to me that I would pick up beforehand.

As long as you're happy Chad, that's all that matters

[zoenoadad]

I was one of the lucky ones to get mine at MSRP, but had that not been the case I would have picked it up on the grey market. Just love it.

Any chance you could post some more pics on the Everest band? I'm considering picking up a RubberB or Everest to add some options for mine. The ones you've posted look great, but love to see even more angles!

[Mick P]

Chaps

What is MRSP - answer a fictitious price that hardly anyone pays.

Most go into a shop and haggle the lowest price they can. Discounts can range from 5% down to 30%.

Occasionally a new watch will sell above the MSRP and who cares, the watch is worth what someone will pay for it.

Rolex have a lousy pricing mechanism for a luxury brand and like most other commodities, it is now priced on what the market will stand.

If you want it, buy it, you worked for the money and it is your choice entirely.

Regards

Mick

[ejvette]

Originally Posted by Mick P

Chaps

What is MRSP - answer a fictitious price that hardly anyone pays.

Most go into a shop and haggle the lowest price they can. Discounts can range from 5% down to 30%.

Occasionally a new watch will sell above the MSRP and who cares, the watch is worth what someone will pay for it.

Rolex have a lousy pricing mechanism for a luxury brand and like most other commodities, it is now priced on what the market will stand.

If you want it, buy it, you worked for the money and it is your choice entirely.

Regards

Mick

Well said Mick I totally agree with that statement and also with Chad's rational life is to short not to get what makes you happy if you have the money and love the piece its nobody's business what you paid for it

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by zoenoadad

I was one of the lucky ones to get mine at MSRP, but had that not been the case I would have picked it up on the grey market. Just love it.

Any chance you could post some more pics on the Everest band? I'm considering picking up a RubberB or Everest to add some options for mine. The ones you've posted look great, but love to see even more angles!

Thanks very much! Just post this yesterday, but will add more photos soon.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BUfpyyzF...oldcasewatches

[Old Geezer]

I would love to have one, I'm on a list and probably some have flowed through the AD to VIPs and out the back door while I have been waiting. I don't like it but I'm not going to worry about it. I never really cared for the non C version but the black with ceramic appeals to me. If the call ever comes, I'll try it on and see if it sings to me.
Paying or not paying a premium can be easily rationalized based on what anyone wants to do and I'm fine with that. If I wanted it more strongly, I might be rationalizing myself into paying a premium. As it stands now, I don't want it that much. It's not going to keep me from enjoying the brand or acquiring other models I like.

[regnant]

Congratulations, it's nice to see you like your watch, you may or not pay premium over any product as it's your money. If there is no buyers remorse that is what counts the most

[Amex4711]

Originally Posted by regnant

Congratulations, it's nice to see you like your watch, you may or not pay premium over any product as it's your money. If there is no buyers remorse that is what counts the most

100% agree
and it looks fantastic on you chadri

[HL65]

The reality is you can get a white one for $16,000 and a black one for $15,000 if you look around and talk to the better grey dealers out there. Is it too big of a premium to pay? Not if you really want one. Again glad I paid $12,400 out the door. With that said if I couldn't have gotten one right away last June I would have paid the premium and sucked it up. That's life and life is short so why not. I am sure we have all done far more foolish things than pay over retail in life!