Kind of unexpected love for the perpetual

[sensui]

I've been trying to get into the brand for the last year via stainless Nautilus....I think most can guess how well that's going with the environment now. I dropped by the local AD and was checking out the small inventory (expected) and got pricing for the 5146g (which I'm interested in also to possibly be the first to get into Patek) along some other models...been chatting with the sales guy since he lives around me for awhile now so he decided to pull out a 5320g to offer since the knows I'm a watch guy.....the only real problem I can see is the price....watch absolutely blew me away in so many ways. He mentioned discounts are small even with models like the 5146.....didn't ask for the 5320 but didn't sound like they'd discount. Just wondering what you guy's experiences are with your dealers when dealing with a piece like the 5320. I might actually be in the "real line" I'd imagine if I went this direction. Thanks in advance to that big Patek guys here for advice.

[codecow]

Probably tough to get one on that piece since it’s relatively new. It’s an awesome piece though and I like how you’re thinking.

[toucan]

Originally Posted by codecow

Probably tough to get one on that piece since it’s relatively new. It’s an awesome piece though and I like how you’re thinking.

Exactly

[nyc2la]

You’re suddenly in a price range with many, many options in the Patek lineup. Take your time and choose wisely. The 5320 may very well end up being the one, but thoroughly review and try on as many as you can.

[nyc2la]

PS. If your AD will barely offer a discount on the 5146g, then I’d consider trying another AD.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

PS. If your AD will barely offer a discount on the 5146g, then I’d consider trying another AD.

Thanks Steve...in a way I'm held hostage a bit with the Nautilus situation and I'd probably never get once via AD if I try a different dealer now...maybe some of the other out of state ADs that were kind enough to put me on the Nautilus list. I'm with you in thinking 10-15% being more normal for something like the 5146g.

[AK797]

If you're looking at this PC model then maybe paying up for a Nautilus is not a bad idea, time is also money.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by AK797

If you're looking at this PC model then maybe paying up for a Nautilus is not a bad idea, time is also money.

Yeah I would definitely not pay the grey premium on the Nautilus.....I honestly think it's overpriced for sure for what it is even before the price increase. But I won't deny the love I had for it when I tried it on my wrist while I admired the finish and small details of the watch. Quite frankly, I am of the mindset that I don't mind getting an annual calendar or perpetual calendar instead and have the Nautilus as a bonus....I think a lot of these designs on the complication/grand complication side are very timeless and I can totally see if I were ever to become a 1 watch guy.....I could totally be sporting one. If we're talking stainless sport watches, I still think Rolex got Patek beat in general by a long shot.....especially when I consider them with the perspective of being a tool watch.

[pam66]

Originally Posted by AK797

If you're looking at this PC model then maybe paying up for a Nautilus is not a bad idea, time is also money.

well, not sure. the 5320 is - most likely - a future collectible that will be produced in low numbers. the steel nautilus....well we all know the hype. i personally would happily pay double for the 5320, compared to the steel nautilus. but i do agree, you should get a discount for the 5320. and clearly a very good one on a 5146.

[Marciano490]

The 5320 has no discount anywhere. Most people I’ve seen who can get them through greys are paying 3-5k over.

[Ichiran]

Your AD might have difficulty selling his 5320, so that's why he offered you this way?

I'm not sure what's the price or discount available on a 5320, but maybe can ask nicely for one.

I think the 5320 is beautiful and has a great vintage look. If you buy off that watch from your AD, I'm sure he will get you a Nautilus soon. :)

[GB-man]

If you’re going to buy your way onto the 5711 list, which is pretty much the only way these days, I can support this vehicle for doing so! Gorgeous watch in my book

Btw I politely ask for a discount on almost every watch. Only Basel SS Rolex do I stand down.

[daveyw]

I don't think you'd get much of a discount on a 5146g, 3-5% max in U.K. I'd guess. You'd get some goodies (strap, service maybe) too but blase comments on discounts don't help. The 5146j can be had for a slightly better deal

[jon_jon]

On most new watches, ADs will try to sell at full price. However in a couple of years, I predict the 5320 will sell at a decent discount, when supply exceeds demand. The number of people in the market for a $80K Patek is a lot smaller than than that for a $30K USD watch.

[goog53]

5146s are in every AD readily available. It is a beautiful watch and timeless but You better buy it right. As for the 5320 it is a really cool watch but no way would I pay list. This reference will be out for a long time and in various dial and metal configurations IMO. The first and second batch will be sold close to list in many cases but after that I would expect a 15%+ discount as PCs typically do not do well in the secondary market.

[SL BRABUS]

Originally Posted by sensui

I've been trying to get into the brand for the last year via stainless Nautilus....I think most can guess how well that's going with the environment now. I dropped by the local AD and was checking out the small inventory (expected) and got pricing for the 5146g (which I'm interested in also to possibly be the first to get into Patek) along some other models...been chatting with the sales guy since he lives around me for awhile now so he decided to pull out a 5320g to offer since the knows I'm a watch guy.....the only real problem I can see is the price....watch absolutely blew me away in so many ways. He mentioned discounts are small even with models like the 5146.....didn't ask for the 5320 but didn't sound like they'd discount. Just wondering what you guy's experiences are with your dealers when dealing with a piece like the 5320. I might actually be in the "real line" I'd imagine if I went this direction. Thanks in advance to that big Patek guys here for advice.

Hey John great to see you here my friend......

I know you're very knowledgeable about Rolex & how Rolex AD work.....

As for Patek Philippe AD, they kind of play the same game as Rolex AD....

Buy 3 or 4 Patek and you get your 5711...... Which IMHO is not worth it if you buying unwanted Patek watches just to get the 5711.....

If you get the 5320 that is a serious watch..... You will be in the elite of the watch game.....

As for discount on the 5146 & 5320, it on depend the city you live in & how many in stock they have.......

Discount on the Patek Philippe don't work the same as PM Rolex, where you can easily get 15% to 20% off with out trying at the Rolex AD....

Here in LA For example:

If they only have one 5146G in stock, you be lucky to get 5% discount....

If they have two 5146G in stock, you be getting 10% discount & if the AD in a good mood, it can be had at 15% discount if you push hard......

As for 5320 discount can be had since it a $82K watch but the question is how much of the discount, since it a new watch that came out in 2017..... My advice is not hurt to ask for discount....

Know you John, you're not a flipper so short term resale value will not effect you if you buying new at the AD......

If you could get your deposit back form your AD and truly like the 5146G, one of our trusted seller have one for under $32K like new 2018

Buy it right and you a winner........

BTW agree with you on not pay grey premium at $45 to $50K on the Nautilus 5711..... You will take a bath if you selling it back to the grey.....

PM me if you need advice or have any questions.....

Best Regards,
Tony

[sensui]

Originally Posted by SL BRABUS

Hey John great to see you here my friend......

I know you're very knowledgeable about Rolex & how Rolex AD work.....

As for Patek Philippe AD, they kind of play the same game as Rolex AD....

Buy 3 or 4 Patek and you get your 5711...... Which IMHO is not worth it if you buying unwanted Patek watches just to get the 5711.....

If you get the 5320 that is a serious watch..... You will be in the elite of the watch game.....

As for discount on the 5146 & 5320, it on depend the city you live in & how many in stock they have.......

Discount on the Patek Philippe don't work the same as PM Rolex, where you can easily get 15% to 20% off with out trying at the Rolex AD....

Here in LA For example:

If they only have one 5146G in stock, you be lucky to get 5% discount....

If they have two 5146G in stock, you be getting 10% discount & if the AD in a good mood, it can be had at 15% discount if you push hard......

As for 5320 discount can be had since it a $82K watch but the question is how much of the discount, since it a new watch that came out in 2017..... My advice is not hurt to ask for discount....

Know you John, you're not a flipper so short term resale value will not effect you if you buying new at the AD......

If you could get your deposit back form your AD and truly like the 5146G, one of our trusted seller have one for under $32K like new 2018

Buy it right and you a winner........

BTW agree with you on not pay grey premium at $45 to $50K on the Nautilus 5711..... You will take a bath if you selling it back to the grey.....

PM me if you need advice or have any questions.....

Best Regards,
Tony

Hey Tony;

That is some excellent insight. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my thread.

I've been doing a lot of thinking these couple days as I'm getting closer to entering the Patek arena and simple math tells me that there isn't really much of an advantage "building the relationship" with an AD. The complication/grand complication watches take such a hit in the grey/used market that buying them at MSRP or with little discount at an AD to grant you access to a stainless Nautilus is a wash versus buying them used/grey and then paying the premium on the 5711 now. Not to mention you can have it here and now with the greys instead of waiting.

I'm still deciding how to approach this....I wish there was a nice Patek I'm into that retains value even on the secondary market that I could get in on with the AD to get me closer to the Nautilus.....but right now it's really just the 5146 (which I'm more into actually) and the 5320.....and the more I think about me rotating watches, the less point I see in the 5320 and am even more attracted to the timeless 5146. I also wish I liked the 5170 more as it's such a great watch when you look the details but I just can't get away with the thought that a chronograph should be sporty like a Speedmaster/Daytona......it's just too classy/formal despite it being uber awesome in every way if we talk design and aesthetics.

A lot to think about. I thank you and others for chiming in with their thoughts. Like Steve said earlier, I should think more carefully in how to enter the brand. Not in a super hurry I guess, maybe I might even get lucky with some list I'm on with other Patek ADs out of state calling me for a turn (won't hold my breath but answering out of state spam calls in hope sometimes lol).

[SL BRABUS]

Originally Posted by sensui

Hey Tony;

That is some excellent insight. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my thread.

I've been doing a lot of thinking these couple days as I'm getting closer to entering the Patek arena and simple math tells me that there isn't really much of an advantage "building the relationship" with an AD. The complication/grand complication watches take such a hit in the grey/used market that buying them at MSRP or with little discount at an AD to grant you access to a stainless Nautilus is a wash versus buying them used/grey and then paying the premium on the 5711 now. Not to mention you can have it here and now with the greys instead of waiting.

I'm still deciding how to approach this....I wish there was a nice Patek I'm into that retains value even on the secondary market that I could get in on with the AD to get me closer to the Nautilus.....but right now it's really just the 5146 (which I'm more into actually) and the 5320.....and the more I think about me rotating watches, the less point I see in the 5320 and am even more attracted to the timeless 5146. I also wish I liked the 5170 more as it's such a great watch when you look the details but I just can't get away with the thought that a chronograph should be sporty like a Speedmaster/Daytona......it's just too classy/formal despite it being uber awesome in every way if we talk design and aesthetics.

A lot to think about. I thank you and others for chiming in with their thoughts. Like Steve said earlier, I should think more carefully in how to enter the brand. Not in a super hurry I guess, maybe I might even get lucky with some list I'm on with other Patek ADs out of state calling me for a turn (won't hold my breath but answering out of state spam calls in hope sometimes lol).

No problem brother John just try to help out.....

No doubt if you could get the 5711 at the retail price from the AD, will be the smart move......

But then again if the AD can't make promise on the writing proof of the receipt when the watch will come in (Max: waiting time 2 year for me) , I will not put a deposit or pay in full....

As I mention before, buying complication or grand complication watches on the secondary market at the right price is always a win win situation....

I love my 5146 because it a classic icon look of what a Patek Philippe watch should be..... Can't go wrong with the best seller AC....... That if you want an AC watch.........

As I say many time I will take the 5170 over a 5711 or 5712.......

5170 is a elite level of the watch game in my book.....

5170 is sporty in a classy way (Think of it as a Bentley GT3R ....).... It can be wear casual or dress...

There a trusted seller near you selling 5170J at a reasonable price....

The 5170 is discontinued meaning it could go up in value just like 5070.....

I love the workmanship of the movements on 5170...... Check out this video...

Good luck with your choice & keep us posted.....

Best Regards,
Tony

[sensui]

I really wished you didn't post those videos against a Speedmaster especially.....just wow @ that 5170p. You got my head turning now.....christ that thing is beautiful in motion.

[Calatrava r]

We do not really know where the market will settle on the 5320g as so few are being released. There are usually 13 to 18 on Chrono24 unworn which to me is usually a bad sign where so many are all just being resold rather than worn.

The retained value on the other PP PC models, in the current era has not been not very good.

[jopek]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

We do not really know where the market will settle on the 5320g as so few are being released. There are usually 13 to 18 on Chrono24 unworn which to me is usually a bad sign where so many are all just being resold rather than worn.

The retained value on the other PP PC models, in the current era has not been not very good.

The 5320g is a beautiful piece which I would love to have but even at its RRP it is seriously expensive and not in my league.

Why is it that PP PC models do not retain a good resale value ?
If it was an AC would it be more sought after ?

For me, if the 5320g just had a date resembling a simpler Pilots watch and priced accordingly it may attract more mainstream buyers. But then I guess that might be classed as not being true to Patek's commitment to complications and exclusivity.

In the end, they have to sell watches to exist and at $80K I wonder how many real takers there will be for this model.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by jopek

The 5320g is a beautiful piece which I would love to have but even at its RRP it is seriously expensive and not in my league.

Why is it that PP PC models do not retain a good resale value ?
If it was an AC would it be more sought after ?

For me, if the 5320g just had a date resembling a simpler Pilots watch and priced accordingly it may attract more mainstream buyers. But then I guess that might be classed as not being true to Patek's commitment to complications and exclusivity.

In the end, they have to sell watches to exist and at $80K I wonder how many real takers there will be for this model.

PP PCs do no hold their value for the same reason PCs from other brands do not. People do not see the value in them. Their current cost is way above the inflation adjusted price of the same models which sold in the 1990's. The used cost reflects more appropriately the proper value of the watches. If you want a PC from Patek, the best bet is to seek out a 3940. An even better play is the 5040. Same movement in a cushion shaped case. Best value there is right now. The 5320 has had so so reviews largely due to the stamped case, bronze metal dial, short power reserve and the over the top retro look. The production release has been very limited yet their are lots and lots of them on the gray market unworn and unsold. I would seek a discount of the watch otherwise you should pass. This movement will be issued in more classical configurations and you should wait and see unless you get a good deal. Just my thoughts.

[jopek]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

PP PCs do no hold their value for the same reason PCs from other brands do not. People do not see the value in them. Their current cost is way above the inflation adjusted price of the same models which sold in the 1990's. The used cost reflects more appropriately the proper value of the watches. If you want a PC from Patek, the best bet is to seek out a 3940. An even better play is the 5040. Same movement in a cushion shaped case. Best value there is right now. The 5320 has had so so reviews largely due to the stamped case, bronze metal dial, short power reserve and the over the top retro look. The production release has been very limited yet their are lots and lots of them on the gray market unworn and unsold. I would seek a discount of the watch otherwise you should pass. This movement will be issued in more classical configurations and you should wait and see unless you get a good deal. Just my thoughts.

Thank you for a very informative reply.
Like any purchase of significant cost, it pays to take advice and do your homework. There is a great deal from others.

I will stick with my humble 5227r for the time being.

[Marciano490]

Is there any modern watch besides Milles that sells for over 100k and retains its value?

[martinr]

If you buy a 5146R for example even at 20% discount from an AD and try and sell it to a grey dealer in six months you’ll take a 10K hit. So you better love it.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by martinr

If you buy a 5146R for example even at 20% discount from an AD and try and sell it to a grey dealer in six months you’ll take a 10K hit. So you better love it.

Yeah, I'm buying Pateks to keep for sure and trying to buy correctly. I'm just not at the level of some of the guys here buying @ ADs/boutiques that don't mind losing couple 10's of thousands to move on to the next best thing. After some back and forth with an opportunity presenting itself, my first is looking to be a 5170p. Will be chasing a 3940p/g afterwards and then attacking the "sports" side with the Nautilus....hoping the market calms itself or I get lucky with some of the dealers not requiring me to spend near $100k with them just for the right to buy a $30k stainless watch hah.

Thanks for all the feedback gang.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

Is there any modern watch besides Milles that sells for over 100k and retains its value?

5131P from the catalog... discontinued in the last 10-15 years I could give you many examples.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

5131P from the catalog... discontinued in the last 10-15 years I could give you many examples.

Right discontinued models have held value, I’m saying, right now, if you were to spend 100k+ on any watch other than a Mille, and the 5131p (good call) and likely the 5740 when it comes out, you’re going to take a loss.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

Right discontinued models have held value, I’m saying, right now, if you were to spend 100k+ on any watch other than a Mille, and the 5131p (good call) and likely the 5740 when it comes out, you’re going to take a loss.

Yes... sounds about right. Limited Editions I guess too. Odd times.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

Right discontinued models have held value, I’m saying, right now, if you were to spend 100k+ on any watch other than a Mille, and the 5131p (good call) and likely the 5740 when it comes out, you’re going to take a loss.

Wow, Milles hold their value? That's even more shocking than that they sell at all.