Patek vs. Lange

[Hogtown Fatty]

Not my intention to get folks riled up over this, just hoping we can have a nice objective chat. Of course I'm well aware of Patek's history and why people love them, but I'm also aware of Lange's existence and can't help but wonder why someone might chose a Patek over a Lange. I'm hoping you more experienced folks can help me understand. A Patek will likely always win out insofar as bragging rights go with the general public, no doubt. It's got much broader recognition, while Lange will only really be recognized by true horology buffs, but is brand recognition the only reason to buy a wawtch? To me, Lange's, while cheaper (relative to the comparable Patek), seem to feature finishes and movements which are just on another level. But I aspire to own both and am not bashing Patek in any way, just trying to understand each brands place, especially when they offer several similar offerings.

[texasmade]

Some people may not like the design of Lange watches and prefer the Swiss look of Patek.

[tyler1980]

i think Lange is the best movement maker on the planet. That said, they are german, not independent, and have poor resale. So all of those to some extent are factors.

[Vaxe]

I own both and Patek is much better finished. My impression of Lange has soften a bit after buying my Saxonia Thin.

[Russell996]

I love the Lange finishing etc but to me the biggest difference is the wearability of the Pateks compared to Lange - Pateks are always a bit smaller and slimmer which really appeals.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

I own both and Patek is much better finished. My impression of Lange has soften a bit after buying my Saxonia Thin.

Can you elaborate on this? I seem to have read a lot more opinions which say the complete opposite.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

Can you elaborate on this? I seem to have read a lot more opinions which say the complete opposite.

i agree ALS movement finishing being better. Patek is superior with cases on all counts:design, complexity, and finishing.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i agree ALS movement finishing being better. Patek is superior with cases on all counts:design, complexity, and finishing.

Lange's cases are also the same across all the lines, which bothers me. I also find their dials way too bland and austere, despite the fact that I do recognize it is part of their design signature. Hence why I'm willing to sacrifice a few points in the movement finish department.

That said, the PT Datograph is still a grail for me. I just need to be in a position to be able to buy it and remain married to it without having to care about resale.

[Amiroo]

Originally Posted by tng11

Lange's cases are also the same across all the lines, which bothers me. I also find their dials way too bland and austere, despite the fact that I do recognize it is part of their design signature. Hence why I'm willing to sacrifice a few points in the movement finish department.

That said, the PT Datograph is still a grail for me. I just need to be in a position to be able to buy it and remain married to it without having to care about resale.

Maybe these dials can do something to change your mind?

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

I own both and Patek is much better finished. My impression of Lange has soften a bit after buying my Saxonia Thin.

Actually owning multiple watches from both I would say Lange's finishing is better than Patek and most others as well. The issue with Lange for many is the proportions as the watches can be quite thick. Many referred to them as hockey pucks over the years here. So if one wants a well finished watch with classic proportions then Patek all day. If one doesn't care about proportions and wants to flip watch over and admire the movement then Lange wins.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by HL65

Actually owning multiple watches from both I would say Lange's finishing is better than Patek and most others as well. The issue with Lange for many is the proportions as the watches can be quite thick. Many referred to them as hockey pucks over the years here. So if one wants a well finished watch with classic proportions then Patek all day. If one doesn't care about proportions and wants to flip watch over and admire the movement then Lange wins.

Well said Ken.

[Abdullasaif]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

I own both and Patek is much better finished. My impression of Lange has soften a bit after buying my Saxonia Thin.

If its automatic and by patek, a time only or a perpetual calendar have the same base movement.. decent but gets boring quick

[Murcielagoboy2]

Lange are really special watches, up there with Patek, possibly better finished to be honest. But I find them to be overwrought in some respects - the movements are "too much". Great watches nonetheless.

[codecow]

They look different.

I think there’s a good value case to be made for something like 1815 Chrono versus 5170, I’d go 1815 all day because the Patek is overpriced in my opinion.

Just looking at finishing you could extend the argument and say why get either? Go with an independent like Kari.

[liu_watch]

I have both and love both brands. At this pinnacle level of watchmaking, a lot of it comes down to subjective views and personal preferences. I share the same views as many have stated - about Patek’s classical design, case profile, proportion..., together they make elegant watches (the non-sports ones).

Regarding the movement finish (on the manual wind calibers), I may one of the few who prefer Patek’s. There is no double Lange is extremely well finished, with its warm color ‘German silver’ plates, blue screws, 45 degree anglage, elements that give Langes a very modern, almost jewelry-like feel. However, I prefer Patek’s classical approach to movement decoration, nothing shouts or look too contrived, except that every component is well finished. I also strongly prefer Patek’s round anglage, classical and beautiful; it really adds a bit of ‘softness’ to the overall aesthetics. Also, I’m not a big fan of Lange’s three quarter mainplate, covering much of the movement, or the ‘patina’ on German silver. My view would be different if the patina can be kept during service. The fact that it has to be removed periodically makes it feel like ‘aging’. I heard people stating that a Lange watchmaking can look at the movement patina and guesstimate whether it needs a service.

On the technical side: I’m sure both brands make exceptionally precise watches. However, for an entry level watch, I would lean towards Patek. Lange reserves the in-house hairsprings and free-sprung balance for higher end models, although gradually they’ve been upgrading the entry level calibers. For Patek, they really need to update that tiny manual wind caliber ps215! Calatravas deserve a better manual wind caliber.

All that said, I still think Lange is a great manufacture. It mostly comes to design languages between the two brands and which speaks to you more...

[tyler1980]

the other factor is longevity which is important to me. I want my watches to go to my kids and then maybe their kids too. ALS has already gone out of business once and was brought back. Patek is a brand that i am fairly confident will be around in a generation or two. Other high end brands, im not so sure of:ALS, FPJ, RM, etc.

[Vipes]

I love both brands but I favor Patek. For me, Patek wins overall for the case, dial, and hands. Lange has a slight edge with movement finishing and the feel of the watch when handling it. The feel of winding the movement and engaging the chronograph functions of the Datograph feels solid and precise.

[Amiroo]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

the other factor is longevity which is important to me. I want my watches to go to my kids and then maybe their kids too. ALS has already gone out of business once and was brought back. Patek is a brand that i am fairly confident will be around in a generation or two. Other high end brands, im not so sure of:ALS, FPJ, RM, etc.

Although to be fair, World War II was not Lange's fault.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Amiroo

Although to be fair, World War II was not Lange's fault.

Neither was the Cold War.

[Amiroo]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Neither was the Cold War.

Pretty sure they had a hand in that one.


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[Calatrava r]

As said, Lange has a softer resale value which given its small production may provide a clear window into its relative value/strengths compared to Patek in many aspects not just money.

[Navarino]

Very small and young fish when it comes to the Lange and Patek game, but thought I'd add my experience thus far. I was in the market last year for a clean, understated dress watch. Narrowed my selection down to the Saxonia and Calatrava. After going back and forth between the two (was lucky enough to be located where there was literally a Lange boutique and Patek AD across from each other) I ended up going with the Saxonia. Price was not the deciding factor -- watch just spoke to me more in the end.

Longer term, there are both Lange and Patek watches that I'd love to add to my collection. I'd really like to pick up a WG or Plat. Lange 1 at some point (probably a more feasible nearer term goal). I love Patek's 5524 (both the WG and new RG model). Don't want to even get into the grand complication pieces from Patek that I drool over -- those might be for waaaaay down the road if all goes well. But in the spirit of dream watches, I'd also love to add a VC American 1921 in "pink"/rose gold to my collection at some point as well.

[OJONES]

They’ve some stunning watches. And you’d be hard pressed to find better finishing. I’ve just the fear of Richemont. Heard too many servicing horror stories from their brands.

[Hogtown Fatty]

Originally Posted by OJONES

They’ve some stunning watches. And you’d be hard pressed to find better finishing. I’ve just the fear of Richemont. Heard too many servicing horror stories from their brands.

That's funny, I've gathered the opposite from my research and am somewhat apprehensive going Patek due to the innumerable horror stories I've read, not only about their awful service, but some of the watches they allow to leave the factory. I was in disbelief to say the least- it seems to be common knowledge at this point. I'm not talking just stuff I've read on the web, but also things I've heard from watch collector friends who own PP's.

Just check out this recent thread (start at post 30 and read into page two):

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=596150

There does seem to be a sort of stigma surrounding Richemont products and I kind of understand the snooty attitude towards not wanting to buy products from such a conglomerate, but companies like ALS and VC are granted autonomy so aren't like some of the others- I would have absolutely no qualms buying either and personally place ALS above Patek in certain regards, not least of which is their movements. I mean you just can't deny the sheer beauty of a Lange movement.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by OJONES

They’ve some stunning watches. And you’d be hard pressed to find better finishing. I’ve just the fear of Richemont. Heard too many servicing horror stories from their brands.

Mr. Alkis in NYC services Lange in the U.S. and his work is excellent.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Vipes

Mr. Alkis in NYC services Lange in the U.S. and his work is excellent.

He is one of the best in the business and have had multiple watches serviced by him.

[Ranger822]

ALS and PP are very different. Listening to the CEO or ALS or their head of design, they clearly state they have a different vision and are not trying to be like anyone else but rather forging their own path in the watch world. I think their watches are carefully conceived, designed, and executed and accomplish exactly what has been intended within the technological limits currently available. I also have no doubt ALS will be around for a very long time, being part of Richmont. If anything, they may be positioned as part of a conglomerate to weather a future downturn in the market better than a smaller, more independent watch group.

As a collector with varied interests and tastes, I like the differences that both brands bring to the market. Those lucky enough to be able to afford a watch from both will likely appreciate the differences and enjoy them.

[mps354]

I have and love both brands. The biggest negative for ALS is case thickness...some watches are less wearable than their Patek counterpart for this reason. I do, however, believe Lange has better finishing.

[AK797]

The Rolls Royce and Bentley in my watch world.

[Ichiran]

It will be interesting if ALS also launches a "Nautilus" line!