James Bond + Rolex = Together Again: But what's in it for each?

[delldeaton]

Since this topic has come up in a number of different Threads, in a number of different ways, I thought I'd ask it directly.

Let's say "the powers that be" were seriously considering
a return of Rolex to the wrist of James Bond in the next film.

Irrespective of whether or not money exchanges hands, or even if there is a "formal" deal to make this happen, we sorta generally know what each is after. Commercial interests regarding sales, volumes, and numbers. Improving the value of the brand.

How does that happen under some new deal you might imagine?

More importantly: How does each get more than they're getting now already?

[Quicksilver]

I could not see Rolex sponsoring Bond in the same way as Omega. Rolex don't have as much to prove - they are (rightly or wrongly) established as the premier luxury watch brand. This is reflected in their current advertising - which tries to be quitely sophisticated (but does not always succeed). Neither would Rolex ever produce a "James Bond Limited Edition".

Now, I am sure Rolex would be happy for their products to be featured in Bond again - but I just don't think they would insist on lines in the film "Ooooomeeeegaaahhhh", etc. So I think any deal with Rolex would be far more low key than with Omega.

More to the point - do Rolex need it. They are already regarded as the authentic Bond watch and I don't think that perception will change.

[Tools]

Could be ineresting to see what happens now that the heads of both Geneva and USA seem to e heading to the exits.

Rolex has never sought the endorsement of anybody except Professionals.. Paul Newmans Daytnoa, Bonds Sub, and others have all come from the fanbase..

I can see it now...... "007 Spies endorse Rolex by a 5 to 3 margin"....... "Which side are you on?"

.............

[Stratton]

If Bond goes back to wearing a Rolex he will be seen as being more sophisticated and cooler than an Omega wearing Bond. The money the film producers lose from Omega will be made up at the box office.

[delldeaton]

The fly in the ointment for me on this question is the Internet. What role does it play? How important is that role?

Omega seems to have the strategy that "to be mentioned along side Rolex" is as important or more than the content of that reference. If that's truly the case, then their strategy is brilliantly executed. Discussion of the early Connery-era Submariner will be pie-in-the-sky for most fans. "Connery will never play Bond again, Bond will never wear a Rolex again. But while we're talking about it, let me show you this Omega, which is certainly w/in reach prise-wise." Dismiss the argument about "which is better," because you can get a new Craig-era Seamaster for half of what it would cost you to get into a Dalton-era Sub-Date.

If you are EON Productions, you benefit on two fronts, precisely because of this rivalry. Omega and Rolex Forums in debate. If Bond goes back to Rolex, the debates ends w/ an "a-ha," an "I told you so," and that's that. It's not a watch question for them, nor one of income; rather, it's one of promotion - which they are getting in spades, right now, via the Omega deal. Period. The watches are secondary, I would think.

As far as Rolex is concerned, I don't know that that's so clear. If you'd have told me last summer that they'd be sponsoring a watch Forum, I'd have laughed. But they do. So the Internet means something to them, and they have come to it in an obvious way.

[DSJ]

Originally Posted by Stratton

If Bond goes back to wearing a Rolex he will be seen as being more sophisticated and cooler than an Omega wearing Bond. The money the film producers lose from Omega will be made up at the box office.

I disagree. Even Rolex lovers who dislike Omega, but like Bond aren't swayed away from seeing the film because of the watch.

As long as the film sees the money they want from Omega, they will stay.

[Parachrom]

At a London AD. Mr Bond...yes. A package has just arrived in for you Mr Bond. It came special delivery from geneva. Good thank you sir. Bond opens the package and in it is a super DSSD he removes the watch turning it over in his experienced hands. A hint of a smile on his faces tels the Ad of his satisfaction. Wear it foeever Mr Bond the Ad tells him....Yes... forever!.

fade to black.

[Gedanken]

I can't really see it fitting into Rolex's marketing strategy. Along the lines of Larry's point, their endorsements are always by real-life high achievers such as Jackie Stewart, Roger Federer and Sir Ranulph Fiennes. I doubt if the exploits of a fictional character would be part of this direction that they've taken, however popular he may be.

[dkpw]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

I can't really see it fitting into Rolex's marketing strategy. Along the lines of Larry's point, their endorsements are always by real-life high achievers such as Jackie Stewart, Roger Federer and Sir Ranulph Fiennes. I doubt if the exploits of a fictional character would be part of this direction that they've taken, however popular he may be.

I could not agree more. These endless Bond threads are becoming rather tiresome. He didn't exist!

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by dkpw

I could not agree more. These endless Bond threads are becoming rather tiresome. He didn't exist!

But he is so tied up with the history and perception of the Rolex image that he might just as well have existed

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by dkpw

I could not agree more. These endless Bond threads are becoming rather tiresome. He didn't exist!

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

But he is so tied up with the history and perception of the Rolex image that he might just as well have existed

Seems like there are two different things here.

First, that David (the "dkpw" one) is tired of endless Bond threads. Such Replies come up every now and again, of course. The great thing about TRF is that there are so many great threads that I'd be surprised if you couldn't find another topic that did excite you. To my way of thinking, having Threads which are clearly labeled "James Bond," is better than having all sorts of other threads hijacked in favor of James Bond content.

Second, in response to Dave (the "Quicksilver" one), I've always taken the "James Bond is a fictional character" thing (and its variations) as a means to an end: That end being to minimize the discussion, if not derail it. One would be hard pressed to find a Post where some one confused 007 with a real character, let alone really seemed to think he was actually real.

These discussions are about James Bond watches, which, so far as I know, are real watches that really exist. They may not be on par in significance for some as models of watches that have gone to the moon. But to me, the 007 franchise is pure and brilliant marketing that runs a continuous thread to 1952. I further think that Rolex is where it is today because of similar brilliance and focus by its founder on this very thing.

So James Bond + Rolex is a way of exploring and appreciating that for me.

Let's face it: If "real" were a limiting criteria for WIS passions, how many Submariners would be sold? I mean, it's a "diver's watch," and, if you're not a real diver, why own one? And, w/in that category, is gold really the best material for that old sea-dog with the leathery skin to wear as he goes down 1,000 feet (argh!) in search of loot from Davy's Jones' Locker?

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

Second, in response to Dave (the "Quicksilver" one), I've always taken the "James Bond is a fictional character" thing (and its variations) as a means to an end: That end being to minimize the discussion, if not derail it.

With all due respect, Dell, you need to be mindful of Nietzsche's advice, namely that the abyss gazes into you as much as you gaze into it.

There is an argument in this thread that Rolex's pattern is to use endorsements featuring real people's achievements. For example, if Daniel Craig were to be a Rolex ambassador, it would be for his accomplishments as an actor, not as James Bond.

By introducing your views on why people put forward the "fictional character" argument, you are in fact minimising the above discussion about Rolex's approach to endorsements, if not derailing it. I'd hate to think that this was the end for your means.

[rpryan55]

Here is the only way I can see Rolex coming back to the Movie Bond:

Omega's advertising budget shrinks due to a global recession. The film producers decide "for artistic reasons" to have the script more closely follow the books, and they find that Rolex is the only watch Bond wears that is mentioned in a James Bond book. Without any commercial endorsements (because the marketing money has dried up for other brands and Rolex is uninterested in participating), they put an Explorer on Bond's wrist.

Can't say it will happen, but that's the only way I can see that it would.

[yannis]

One thing i would like to point out is that Omega prices (since the introduction of Co-Axial movements across the mechanical Seamaster series) have dramatically risen!! Is that justified merely by the qualities of the movement and the amount of research/funds spent towards it? I think not. Omega is not Rolex but their marketing team seems to be doing a good job.
In short words, i personally wouldn't spend 2300 euros on a Seamaster with the Co-Axial movement because i think it is overpriced but many people will. This could be explained by the fact that Omega have successfully managed to connect the brand-name with Bond especially with regards to the newer generation of Bond fans. Also if i recall correctly, they have sponsored other films/movie stars too. So they have a ground to sell their watches on a higher premium, yet they do so while a Seamaster is still much cheaper/accessible than the Submariner. Not bad for a Bond watch and particularly not bad for consumers' pockets!
Omega will certainly gain out of this deal and i believe this is becoming apparent yet i do not see why Rolex has something to loose since - as other members pointed out - Rolex are established as the main player in this game. Still some smart marketing might be necessary on Rolex's part if they want to retain their 1.000.000 watches a year production rate whether it be being the next Bond watch or something else.

[cody p]

there's a pretty well known rolex blog that you can visit that shows lots of pics of Daniel Craig wearing a rolex in his personal life and even at events promoting his J Bond movies. i wonder if there's some kind of deal on the sly? i don't think they (rolex) are above paying for product placement in a movie - they are certainly not above have an advertising link on another well-known wristwatch forum. when i first saw it i thought "mmm, this seems kind of a cheesy thing for the great rolex to do." it struck me as if they were lowering themselves. ok, now i'm gonna run and put my fire retardant cover-alls on:)

[delldeaton]

The comment here about the Explorer got me thinking.

It truly has become cliche to say that this 007 film or that has "returned to the original Fleming." Sorta like "this Bond girl is different" (which I believe was first said about Honor Blackman in Goldfinger). To our purposes, say the next James Bond movie features as Rolex Submariner. So what? It's just what a previous actor wore, akin to featuring the blue / blue Seamaster in Casino Royale, Craig referring back to Brosnan.

The Aston Martin thing has really gotten out of hand over the years. First off, Fleming issued the car to 007 just once; it was a pool car, for a specific image and mission. Then in GoldenEye it somehow became Bond's personal car, and after that we got the backstory (supposedly) in Casino Royale.

But what if as much effort were put into "authenticating" Bond a'la Fleming next time around as reportedly went into the in-references of Die Another Day? Have him drive a Bentley. Give him that scar on his cheek. Create the sort of love and admiration that James Bond had for M in the novel Moonraker (remember the scenes at Blades?) and led him to "free lance" for M in the "For Your Eyes Only" short story.

This could be done w/ a contemporary updating and careful re-introduction of the brilliant elements Albert R. Broccoli brought to the equation in translation to the big screen.

Yet, truly - and for the first time: Ian Fleming's James Bond.

The value to Rolex could come from Fleming's own words in On Her Majesty's Secret Service. After all, we never have seen a watch used as a make-shift weapon (except when it had gadgets). Nor have we had Bond worry about his expense report covering a replacement of the watch.

As to Rolex ambassadors, I dunno. I've seen ads featuring Charleton Heston and Peter Benchley (w/ reference to JAWS). Drawing the line at James Bond seems to me to be arbitrary at best.

Still: Do it on the quiet and the next result is the same. Rolex doesn't have to be overt w/ its support to benefit.

Just thinking out loud here--.

[Trurolexer]

To me, the classic Bond is the winner. And Sir Sean Connery is wearing Submariner in his first Bond.

[baldyspoon]

Rolex may be the original but Omega is now known as the bond watch, ask youger people and the answer is always Omega. I think Omega will put up a good fight to keep thier watches in the next film, and the only way Rolex will get it is to throw more money in the pot than Omega.

[Goodwatch]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Rolex have never had any involvement with EON Productions. The Rolex's used were private purchases. And because they seem have made formal arrangements with Omega (who are willing to pay for their product placement), the door is shut for any other watch manufacturer. Whether they are willing to pay for the privilege or not. With today's mega-budgets, purchasing a couple of non-date Subs won't put a dent in EON's spendings but they simply can't because of the Omega deal.

With all due respect for Omega, the way they milk the thing is something Rolex would never do. Can you imagine a Sub with a 007 logo on the second hand?

But having said all that, I would love to see our imaginary hero sport a Rolex again. It is just the watch for the job. Dressy and sporty. A name as strong as the man himself.

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by baldyspoon

Rolex may be the original but Omega is now known as the bond watch, ask youger people and the answer is always Omega....

Actually, a little over two years ago, I surveyed this very question: "Which watch brand do you most associate with James Bond?" LINK

• Omega 44%
• Rolex 53%

There were other options, but those are the numbers to your question.

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

Correct me if I'm wrong but Rolex have never had any involvement with EON Productions. The Rolex's used were private purchases. And because they seem have made formal arrangements with Omega (who are willing to pay for their product placement), the door is shut for any other watch manufacturer. Whether they are willing to pay for the privilege or not. With today's mega-budgets, purchasing a couple of non-date Subs won't put a dent in EON's spendings but they simply can't because of the Omega deal.

With all due respect for Omega, the way they milk the thing is something Rolex would never do. Can you imagine a Sub with a 007 logo on the second hand?

But having said all that, I would love to see our imaginary hero sport a Rolex again. It is just the watch for the job. Dressy and sporty. A name as strong as the man himself.

Hard to say if Rolex is as distant from the EON Productions films as many of the stories seem to imply. If you look at credits from the films themselves, and even deeper in the records, some rather interesting jewelry suppliers crop up in films where Rolex has appeared. And this parallels at least one way I've been told for the approach Seiko took in product placement in the films: It was not corporate, but, rather, Seiko UK that cut the deal.

As far as the door being shut, certainly as long as their is an "official" supplier to the films, I think that is the case (though not claiming to be a contract lawyer, nor playing one on TV). But contracts expire, of course. And there are also terms, I'm confident, for terminating deals that are no longer working. In the case of Omega SA, as I've said elsewhere, I think the deal is working. And, frankly, if I were w/ EON Productions, I'd think the deal was working as well. Witness these Threads on TRF: Would the films be getting this much Internet chatter if it were a simply statement that "Rolex is it," as opposed to the debates about Rolex versus Omega?

Finally, there's this from a nice coffee table book titled The Art of Bond, by Laurent Bouzereau, quoting Ken Snelgrove, Senior Vice President of Global Business Strategy (for EON):

We don't want to have logos shout out at you. It has to be seamless within the storyline. So, we all work together at making sure that whatever product we choose fits with the plot of the film. We're also very selective with our product placement partners and we have a very unique strategy; we're mainly interested in our partners doing advertising and cross-promotional activities, as opposed to giving us a cheque.... We also have been taking product placement to another level in recent years. A classic example is our partnership with Omega; we went to them and we said, "we want the placement and promotion but we also want a licensed product." So in addition to promoting the Seamaster as James Bond's watch, they also developed a 40th Anniversary Seamaster watch, and produced 10,007 - which sold out in four days....

So if there is an issue w/ the so-called 007 logo on the dial or counter-balance, it starts w/ EON Productions.

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

So if there is an issue w/ the so-called 007 logo on the dial or counter-balance, it starts w/ EON Productions.

Omega could have said no, but they didn't. We are entering the realms of philosophy now but do even Omega need this? I mean, 007 logos on a watch? Are their sales that poor that they need to spice it up with a 007 logo? The Speedy Pro is another story. They actually DID supply a number of watches to the space program, which is something entirely different from a 'movie'. And yes, they are milking this, at nausea, as well.

[baldyspoon]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

Correct me if I'm wrong but Rolex have never had any involvement with EON Productions. The Rolex's used were private purchases. And because they seem have made formal arrangements with Omega (who are willing to pay for their product placement), the door is shut for any other watch manufacturer. Whether they are willing to pay for the privilege or not. With today's mega-budgets, purchasing a couple of non-date Subs won't put a dent in EON's spendings but they simply can't because of the Omega deal.

With all due respect for Omega, the way they milk the thing is something Rolex would never do. Can you imagine a Sub with a 007 logo on the second hand?

But having said all that, I would love to see our imaginary hero sport a Rolex again. It is just the watch for the job. Dressy and sporty. A name as strong as the man himself.

Your quite right but Rolex have now got a chance, Omegas deal is due to end and nothing has been annoucned to say they are renewing. However if they are not prepaid to pay I don't think EON will use them, especially with the current climate and every penny needing to be accounted for it will still boil down to who's prepaid to pay the most

[delldeaton]

What if EON Productions put the choice up to auction, and those interested in each brand could take up collections to bid against each other for the ultimate prize?

[yannis]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

With all due respect for Omega, the way they milk the thing is something Rolex would never do. Can you imagine a Sub with a 007 logo on the second hand?

I agree with you man, but i recall some Rolex models with Coca-Cola's and Domino Pizza's logos on their dials! I know they were meant to be ordered for stuff and so on but i thought they looked uglyl!

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by yannis7777

I agree with you man, but i recall some Rolex models with Coca-Cola's and Domino Pizza's logos on their dials! I know they were meant to be ordered for stuff and so on but i thought they looked uglyl!

Yep. There are also some very special commissioned dials for special occasions and some Arab states. (And they are fetching $$$$$$$). To tell you the truth, this is puzzling. Rolex sells every watch it makes and there seems to be a waiting list for some models as long as I can remember. I'm sure James Dowling has the answer. Perhaps Rolex only agreed to the use of logos on their dials (after receiving a healthy roylaty fee) but never was in their production.

[Thomas]

I don't think the watch Bond is, or isn't wearing would make someone
see, or not see the movie.

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

Omega could have said no, but they didn't. We are entering the realms of philosophy now but do even Omega need this? I mean, 007 logos on a watch? Are their sales that poor that they need to spice it up with a 007 logo? The Speedy Pro is another story. They actually DID supply a number of watches to the space program, which is something entirely different from a 'movie'. And yes, they are milking this, at nausea, as well.

We're not in disagreement on this. The point that I simply felt it important to make was that it wasn't as if Omega pulled this idea out of a hat and went rogue w/ it.

Originally Posted by Thomas

I don't think the watch Bond is, or isn't wearing would make someone
see, or not see the movie.

Agreed.

[Jimbits76]

Didn't old C Brocci give old S Conny his own Sub when Rolex refused to stump up a freeb for Dr No?

The fact of the matter is that the Rolex Ninnies have got their pantaloons in a twist because Craig has been seen wearing Rolex. Big Deal!

Brad Pitt wears a Rolex....Does that mean Tyler Durden wears one? Do we need a discussion about whether Maximus Decimus Doohdah Whojamacallhim wore a Rolex because Russel Crowe wears one?

Omega have the deal tied up...when the option comes up again, I'd bet that Omega would pay up again. The Bond (spesh the Brosnan ads) franchise did wonders for Omega's marketing. Instantly lads mags like Loaded, FHM, GQ etc started featuring the watches in their must have sections. Just before I got married, Claire bought me one of those dumb fashion mags for groom and groomsmen outfit ideas. In the sections for cufflinks etc it had an Omega Seamaster...the review said, James Bond would be wearing it, so why aren't you?

It is that simple? These ads work like laser beams into the brains of the gullible!

Rolex don't need the Bond franchise anymore, I doubt they would want it after the awful piece of dialogue in C.R.

Rolex now have this ambassador system based on achievement, as James said, they could approach Craig for his thesp achievements (he has a long way to go yet though, even if we do all love him) instead of promoting a fictional character.

As for the ticket sales would go up comments....Good Lord!!!!!!!! I know the overbearing snobbery can and probably should be inherent to a forum based around luxury watches but please get a grip!

The folks here (I included) who discuss the minutae of what bleeding wristwatch James Bond wears are the minority.

People watch Bond movies and their ilk for escapism...suspense action and eye candy not the wristwatches!!!!!!!!

J

PS Wasn't Goldeneye the highest grossing Bond movie ever? What watch did he have on again?

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

Didn't old C Brocci give old S Conny his own Sub when Rolex refused to stump up a freeb for Dr No?

The fact of the matter is that the Rolex Ninnies have got their pantaloons in a twist because Craig has been seen wearing Rolex. Big Deal!

Brad Pitt wears a Rolex....Does that mean Tyler Durden wears one? Do we need a discussion about whether Maximus Decimus Doohdah Whojamacallhim wore a Rolex because Russel Crowe wears one?

Omega have the deal tied up...when the option comes up again, I'd bet that Omega would pay up again. The Bond (spesh the Brosnan ads) franchise did wonders for Omega's marketing. Instantly lads mags like Loaded, FHM, GQ etc started featuring the watches in their must have sections. Just before I got married, Claire bought me one of those dumb fashion mags for groom and groomsmen outfit ideas. In the sections for cufflinks etc it had an Omega Seamaster...the review said, James Bond would be wearing it, so why aren't you?

It is that simple? These ads work like laser beams into the brains of the gullible!

Rolex don't need the Bond franchise anymore, I doubt they would want it after the awful piece of dialogue in C.R.

Rolex now have this ambassador system based on achievement, as James said, they could approach Craig for his thesp achievements (he has a long way to go yet though, even if we do all love him) instead of promoting a fictional character.

As for the ticket sales would go up comments....Good Lord!!!!!!!! I know the overbearing snobbery can and probably should be inherent to a forum based around luxury watches but please get a grip!

The folks here (I included) who discuss the minutae of what bleeding wristwatch James Bond wears are the minority.

People watch Bond movies and their ilk for escapism...suspense action and eye candy not the wristwatches!!!!!!!!

J

PS Wasn't Goldeneye the highest grossing Bond movie ever? What watch did he have on again?

Jimbo, your problem is that you're just too restrained. Just let it out, man!

Seriously though, I agree with you about the effects of the Bond movies on Omega's marketing. As far as the non-WIS population goes, Omega is fast becoming the Bond watch if general publications are anything to go by.

Is this a problem for Rolex? I doubt it. Omega jumps with the market, and some days it works while on other days it doesn't - just look at what happened in the 70's. Rolex, on the other hand, is blue-chip. That unfortunately means that they're too conservative to do a lot of the things that we wish they would do, but it's a philosophy that's held them in good stead for all this time.

[Idle Swede]

[QUOTE=Jimbits76;946850]Didn't old C Brocci give old S Conny his own Sub when Rolex refused to stump up a freeb for Dr No? QUOTE]


Who told you that??