New Hodinkee Article About GS Direction in the USA

[Old Expat Beast]

Quite long but interesting, with some good comments.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/gr...-move-upmarket

[Justinmg]

I liked it, I’ve never been able to handle a gs but they interest me and I’ve only heard good things, would be cool to see some AD around.

[ArtNouveau]

I walked into their first dealer in Houston today, a Ben Bridge in the upscale Galleria mall. I have also handled them in a high end NY watch store. So far their style doesn’t really match mine although I can see and feel the quality. I’m hoping they branch out with more options as they grow.
I just hope the mothership doesn’t veer away from the low to midrange mechanicals. Just a few years ago I had to order mechanical divers from overseas, the Turtles are now easy to find in the US. The article seems to say they will keep that range here.

[toxicavenger]

Weird not one mention of Joseph Kirk, he has been pushing for GS to come to the US market for at least the last 10 years. Now he is working up at Seiko HQ in NYC I think.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

Weird not one mention of Joseph Kirk, he has been pushing for GS to come to the US market for at least the last 10 years. Now he is working up at Seiko HQ in NYC I think.

Grand Seiko was already officially imported by Seiko USA back in 2010, as they were in UK, EU, and Australia too. Joe worked for Arizona Finetime, one of the first ADs to take on Grand Seiko.
He since left and can now be found in the Miami boutique of Seiko.

One thing the article doesn’t do, at all, is mention the fact that (Grand) Seiko only produces less than 20K mechanical pieces, which includes Credor, GS, and Prospex, each year.
Compare that to the hundreds of thousands that IWC, TAG Heuer, Breitling, Omega, and Rolex (in ascending order), churn out annually, and it’s not hard to fathom why Grand Seiko will be a brand needing to be sought out as opposed to being seen in evey city and many of the larger towns.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Grand Seiko was already officially imported by Seiko USA back in 2010, as they were in UK, EU, and Australia too. Joe worked for Arizona Finetime, one of the first ADs to take on Grand Seiko.

He since left and can now be found in the Miami boutique of Seiko.



One thing the article doesn’t do, at all, is mention the fact that (Grand) Seiko only produces less than 20K mechanical pieces, which includes Credor, GS, and Prospex, each year.

Compare that to the hundreds of thousands that IWC, TAG Heuer, Breitling, Omega, and Rolex (in ascending order), churn out annually, and it’s not hard to fathom why Grand Seiko will be a brand needing to be sought out as opposed to being seen in evey city and many of the larger towns.

That is interesting. Where did you get the info on GS production numbers?

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by imperio

That is interesting. Where did you get the info on GS production numbers?

Oh, from a good few years ago.
Back then (2014?), I read something by someone who’d managed to meet with Hattori san, and in the Q&A it was mentioned that Seiko was working towards increasing production (by training more watchmakers) over the course of the following years. A figure of 16K was mentioned*, as what they were aiming for — so take the number I mentioned as an extrapolation and guesstimate.
The main thing to take away from it is that GS will never be at the sort of production numbers those other 5 mentioned, and possibly not even at Patek level either.
If my number is remotely accurate, then they’re still behind Vacheron’s output, which is around half that of Patek.

* At the time, that would’ve encompassed GS, Credor, Galante, and LEs from the MarineMaster range, as Ananta (the precursor to GSes being exported officially) had been discontinued.
All those were assembled by hand, everything else being mostly machine assembled.
I’ve always presumed the quartz GSes numbers are not included and the figures referring to mechanicals only, inc. Spring Drive.

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Oh, from a good few years ago.
Back then (2014?), I read something by someone who’d managed to meet with Hattori san, and in the Q&A it was mentioned that Seiko was working towards increasing production (by training more watchmakers) over the course of the following years. A figure of 16K was mentioned*, as what they were aiming for — so take the number I mentioned as an extrapolation and guesstimate.
The main thing to take away from it is that GS will never be at the sort of production numbers those other 5 mentioned, and possibly not even at Patek level either.
If my number is remotely accurate, then they’re still behind Vacheron’s output, which is around half that of Patek.

* At the time, that would’ve encompassed GS, Credor, Galante, and LEs from the MarineMaster range, as Ananta (the precursor to GSes being exported officially) had been discontinued.
All those were assembled by hand, everything else being mostly machine assembled.
I’ve always presumed the quartz GSes numbers are not included and the figures referring to mechanicals only, inc. Spring Drive.

One of the things I really appreciate about GS is their low production numbers- to me this indicates greater hands on manufacturing versus machine .
Quality hands on craftsmanship, to me, makes for a truly high end timepiece.
The Hodinkee article was very interesting!

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Grand Seiko was already officially imported by Seiko USA back in 2010, as they were in UK, EU, and Australia too. Joe worked for Arizona Finetime, one of the first ADs to take on Grand Seiko.
He since left and can now be found in the Miami boutique of Seiko.

Yep I meet Joe back in the Fine Time days. He was instrumental in helping out people with their Japan only watches and GS's.

He left the Miami boutique last summer and is now in HQ like I mentioned.

Great info.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

Yep I meet Joe back in the Fine Time days. He was instrumental in helping out people with their Japan only watches and GS's.

He left the Miami boutique last summer and is now in HQ like I mentioned.

Great info.

I stand corrected then — thought he was still there, managing it. Interesting to hear he’s back up in NJ, as he had been previously before the Miami store was set up.

[locutus49]

QUICK QUESTION: Is Credor the top of the GS line or mid-range? No one seems to be able to answer that simple question.

Originally Posted by PJ S

Grand Seiko was already officially imported by Seiko USA back in 2010, as they were in UK, EU, and Australia too. Joe worked for Arizona Finetime, one of the first ADs to take on Grand Seiko.
He since left and can now be found in the Miami boutique of Seiko.

One thing the article doesn’t do, at all, is mention the fact that (Grand) Seiko only produces less than 20K mechanical pieces, which includes Credor, GS, and Prospex, each year.
Compare that to the hundreds of thousands that IWC, TAG Heuer, Breitling, Omega, and Rolex (in ascending order), churn out annually, and it’s not hard to fathom why Grand Seiko will be a brand needing to be sought out as opposed to being seen in evey city and many of the larger towns.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by locutus49

QUICK QUESTION: Is Credor the top of the GS line or mid-range? No one seems to be able to answer that simple question.

To me it is like Tudor and Rolex's relationship. They don't fall in the same line of products exactly.

[SUPERDOC]

Originally Posted by locutus49

QUICK QUESTION: Is Credor the top of the GS line or mid-range? No one seems to be able to answer that simple question.

credor is a separate line altogether - tudor-rolex is a fair analogy, but it is more like Mercedes and Maybach..

Credor represents the pinnacle in Japanese watch making.. on par with ALS, and PP grand complications...

in Credor you get enamel dials, minute repeaters, tourbillons , and 6 figure prices...

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

credor is a separate line altogether - tudor-rolex is a fair analogy, but it is more like Mercedes and Maybach..

Credor represents the pinnacle in Japanese watch making.. on par with ALS, and PP grand complications...

in Credor you get enamel dials, minute repeaters, tourbillons , and 6 figure prices...

That's what I read as well but credor has some cheap stuff too.

[locutus49]

Thank you very much. I now crave a Credor.

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

credor is a separate line altogether - tudor-rolex is a fair analogy, but it is more like Mercedes and Maybach..

Credor represents the pinnacle in Japanese watch making.. on par with ALS, and PP grand complications...

in Credor you get enamel dials, minute repeaters, tourbillons , and 6 figure prices...

[Art 1]

I'm fortunate to have a GS AD at both places I live in N America. A buddy from London has been telling me their cases ard finishing are of PP quality, he owns quite a few PP watches. Well I agree they are wonderfully made watches. I wish GS the best of luck gaining ground in Canada and the USA

[scarlet knight]

I do wish Grand Seiko success, but I’ve never met a Seiko diver that I didn’t like.

Well once. A Kinetic Tuna shrouded GMT that weighed more than my arm.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

...

Well once. A Kinetic Tuna shrouded GMT that weighed more than my arm.

You lightweight! At least it would’ve prevented you from getting blown away in a stiff breeze.

[scarlet knight]

Originally Posted by PJ S

You lightweight! At least it would’ve prevented you from getting blown away in a stiff breeze.

But it was still too big.

[psv]

I do admire and respect the quality of the output and the ambition but at the end of the day, they won't make it into the top 5 for me. Part of the allure of owning/using a watch is the aspiration. As a teenage watch nerd in Sweden, my dream watch was a Rolex. I really liked other brands as well, ended up with a Citizen diver, later a Longines Admiral with a 7750 movement, etc, but never, at any point, did I aspire to own a Seiko. And that hasn't changed.

I recently got my son a Seiko automatic diver as his first real watch, and he really digs it. But that is the level they play at in my book, regardless of what the high priests/archbishops at Hodinkee say.

[GB-man]

This part makes sense to me.

"Another factor in the move upmarket is that Seiko's top brass see the Swiss as vulnerable. Seiko executives note that many luxury retailers are unhappy with how Swiss brands are treating them, noting that Swiss brands continue to close authorized dealers and open their own boutiques, and continue to over-produce luxury watches, which hurts jewelers by boosting gray-market sales. They say jewelers are becoming more receptive to alternatives to Swiss luxury brands."

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by psv

I do admire and respect the quality of the output and the ambition but at the end of the day, they won't make it into the top 5 for me. Part of the allure of owning/using a watch is the aspiration. As a teenage watch nerd in Sweden, my dream watch was a Rolex. I really liked other brands as well, ended up with a Citizen diver, later a Longines Admiral with a 7750 movement, etc, but never, at any point, did I aspire to own a Seiko. And that hasn't changed.

I recently got my son a Seiko automatic diver as his first real watch, and he really digs it. But that is the level they play at in my book, regardless of what the high priests/archbishops at Hodinkee say.

Sounds like ROlex's marketing worked.

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

Sounds like ROlex's marketing worked.

[Homo Sapien X]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

Sounds like ROlex's marketing worked.

After owning a few Rolexes, I started to drool over GS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the_natural]

Originally Posted by Homo Sapien X

After owning a few Rolexes, I started to drool over GS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ditto. Sold my Rolex and no going back anytime soon (though I haven't gotten a GS yet). GS ruined Rolex for me.

[psv]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

Sounds like ROlex's marketing worked.

Funny enough comment, but this was way before I was exposed to most of any Rolex marketing. Rolex Submariner was the coolest watch I knew and that is why I wanted one. That first love doesn’t change, even after I’ve own/owned various Patek, AP, Seiko, JLC, IWC, and many more. I’m sure I’ll own and appreciate a Grand Seiko at some point, but that doesn’t change the fact it has never been a watch/brand that I dreamed about owning. Make sense?

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by psv

Funny enough comment, but this was way before I was exposed to most of any Rolex marketing. Rolex Submariner was the coolest watch I knew and that is why I wanted one. That first love doesn’t change, even after I’ve own/owned various Patek, AP, Seiko, JLC, IWC, and many more. I’m sure I’ll own and appreciate a Grand Seiko at some point, but that doesn’t change the fact it has never been a watch/brand that I dreamed about owning. Make sense?

No, the funny thing about good marketing is that you don’t even know it’s working on you.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by pickettt

No, the funny thing about good marketing is that you don’t even know it’s working on you.

True

[Cru Jones]

Buy GS while you can.... my take away from the article is that prices are going up up up.

[Reddy_Kilowatt]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Buy GS while you can.... my take away from the article is that prices are going up up up.

Do you think that would result in substantially greater sales volume? I don't.