About to pick this up on the weekend. Want to check if this is legit

[Mrjohnhuo]

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. I'm about to pick this 2018 116610 up this weekend. It's purchased through an acquittance I know. The watch is from one of his contacts and my acquittance is a watch enthusiast aswell, especially Rolex.

His has a few Rolexes and AP, hence why I trust his judgement. But not 100% confident of his contact. Hence I want to ask you guys for help to see if this is legit.

Thanks for your help.



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[Mrjohnhuo]

Forgot to add this pic.


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[ThatExplorer]

From what I can see if looks good, the bracelet looks like it has been re-brushes which could be normal for a service. Does the Serial match the serial inside the rehaut? Does it wind smooth?

Most importantly how do you feel about it?


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[Mrjohnhuo]

Originally Posted by ThatExplorer

From what I can see if looks good, the bracelet looks like it has been re-brushes which could be normal for a service. Does the Serial match the serial inside the rehaut? Does it wind smooth?

Most importantly how do you feel about it?


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I'll definitely check the serial numbers to the case and rehaut. I think I'll take it to a swiss watch repairer to make sure it's genuine. The local RSC has very bad reviews with lots of people compalining repairs not been done properly.



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[GLADIATOR]

IMPOSSIBLE to authenticate those photos
BUT if anything, looks suspect!
A

[freefly]

Originally Posted by Mrjohnhuo

I'm about to pick this 2018 116610 up this weekend.

Looks OK (no red flags), but I'd want to put eyes/hands on it in person prior to handing over the cash. I certainly wouldn't purchase it sight-unseen based on those photos.

If you are going to pick it up locally, you might just consider meeting your friend at the RSC in Sydney.

[socalwatchcollector]

No way of knowing for sure unless you open it up.. The fakes out there now days are scary good!

The other question is.. What does he want for it? Too low of a number and it's usually a red flag. AD's don't have them unless you're on the "list" and gray dealers selling for almost 10k new and close to that preowned.

[Mrjohnhuo]

Originally Posted by socalwatchcollector

No way of knowing for sure unless you open it up.. The fakes out there now days are scary good!

The other question is.. What does he want for it? Too low of a number and it's usually a red flag. AD's don't have them unless you're on the "list" and gray dealers selling for almost 10k new and close to that preowned.

Well the guy wants 9300USD equivalent to AUD for a 2018. Definitly taking this and opening it up for verification. Keep you all posted. Will confirm tomorrow.

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[Gtecko]

The sub has been copied, replicated so many times ... it is one of the most counterfeited Rolex out there and some of their replicas are very well done. As mentioned, only opening it will give you the piece of mind.
Good luck

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Gtecko

The sub has been copied, replicated so many times ... it is one of the most counterfeited Rolex out there and some of their replicas are very well done. As mentioned, only opening it will give you the piece of mind.
Good luck

Even opening it not a guarantee.
The latest fakes have genuine movements!
A

[Gtecko]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Even opening it not a guarantee.
The latest fakes have genuine movements!
A

wow ... that is scary then ...

[Mrjohnhuo]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Even opening it not a guarantee.

The latest fakes have genuine movements!

A

Yeah I saw some of those one somewhere. With partial genuine parts.

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[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Mrjohnhuo

Yeah I saw some of those one somewhere. With partial genuine parts.

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Movement is 100% genuine and untouched
Case, dial, bezel and bracelet are fake

But those get scary close

[PRSWILL]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Movement is 100% genuine and untouched
Case, dial, bezel and bracelet are fake

But those get scary close

WHERE are the counterfeiters getting genuine movements in enought volume to sell? That doesnt' make sense. I have seen some really good COPIED movements- but "genuine"? that's not possible.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Even opening it not a guarantee.
The latest fakes have genuine movements!
A

Hahaha this guy is all over the board with his comments. So he says you can get "real" movements but not real "sapphire LEC's without a parts account".

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Simply incorrect
Rolex only supply to their own service centers and approved repairers.
Who have to account for each one.

[Mrjohnhuo]

Hi All, update, good news. Just came from a swiss watch servicing centre. They open the case and verified case, rehaut and inner mechanics and they confirmed it's genuine.

For $75, it's worth checking.

Happy with my new watch.

Cheers.



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[Jim Smyth]

Good news you did it the right way. Now enjoy your new watch.

[jfigs82]

Congrats and great bye. Small price to pay for peace of mind.


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[dhknola]

It is crazy the fakes now have genuine movements...It's one of the reason I stick w 5 digit watches, the new ones seem like a minefield in secondary market and this AD glad handing is not for me.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These movements are 100% GENUINE
And are flooding New York.
so much so that WATCH CSA issued a warning to all members.

I have seen 5 pieces.

Which models were they?
Surely you have photo-documented those 5 pieces, right? Let's seem them!
If they are truly "flooding" the market, I'm sure the sources have been identified by now (like all other suppliers of "super fakes" out there), right? So who are they? Where are they coming from? PM me if you don't want to discuss here.


I think the reason that your claim is a bit hard to believe is that genuine Rolex movements just aren't available in the quantities needed to facilitate "flooding the market" with fakes using them.
You can't just pop by your local RSC and say "I'd like to buy a complete 3135 please". Rolex will not sell you a single one, let alone bulk purchases to sustain a massive counterfeiting operation.

The only option then would be to source them on the secondary (used) market...In which case there are still not enough out there to "flood the market" with fake watches using genuine movements. I can maybe see a small-scale/one-man operation putting them together in limited numbers. However, the logistics and expense of sourcing complete genuine movements and retrofitting them into fake cases just doesn't make sense on the scale that the major counterfeiters operate at.
It is MUCH more cost-effective to simply clone a genuine movement, which has been going on for years (and they seem to be getting better with each evolution).

So, there really are only 2 explanations, IMO:

1. The scale of the "fake watches using genuine movements" problem is MUCH smaller than you (or "CSA") are describing.
2. The movements that some think are genuine, are simply really good clones.


Just my take anyway...

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by freefly

Which models were they?
Surely you have photo-documented those 5 pieces, right? Let's seem them!
If they are truly "flooding" the market, I'm sure the sources have been identified by now (like all other suppliers of "super fakes" out there), right? So who are they? Where are they coming from? PM me if you don't want to discuss here.


I think the reason that your claim is a bit hard to believe is that genuine Rolex movements just aren't available in the quantities needed to facilitate "flooding the market" with fakes using them.
You can't just pop by your local RSC and say "I'd like to buy a complete 3135 please". Rolex will not sell you a single one, let alone bulk purchases to sustain a massive counterfeiting operation.

The only option then would be to source them on the secondary (used) market...In which case there are still not enough out there to "flood the market" with fake watches using genuine movements. I can maybe see a small-scale/one-man operation putting them together in limited numbers. However, the logistics and expense of sourcing complete genuine movements and retrofitting them into fake cases just doesn't make sense on the scale that the major counterfeiters operate at.
It is MUCH more cost-effective to simply clone a genuine movement, which has been going on for years (and they seem to be getting better with each evolution).

So, there really are only 2 explanations, IMO:

1. The scale of the "fake watches using genuine movements" problem is MUCH smaller than you (or "CSA") are describing.
2. The movements that some think are genuine, are simply really good clones.


Just my take anyway...

Eric
You can believe what you want.
You can also try to dispel the facts that these watches exist.

You can also make your claims that these are "just good clones" - its fine to me

Of course I have photos of the pieces we have seen.
Why should I share with you? You already know everything.

In conclusion, I have tried to warn members here, as has CSA.

People can decide as they please
I wont respond further

I already stated one was a DEEPSEA (James Cameron) the others were a HULK, a BATMAN and Submariner.
3135 movement
I also have a ladies datejust (older movement) and its fake too
A

[freefly]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

You can believe what you want.
You can also try to dispel the facts that these watches exist.

Not wholly dispelling that they exist, only the scale of which that was implied, if they actually do exist.

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Of course I have photos of the pieces we have seen.
Why should I share with you? You already know everything.

Why? To back up your claim, and help educate your fellow watch enthusiasts.
I certainly don't know everything, but will raise an eyebrow when something just doesn't sound right.
I am always happy to concede when presented with actual facts/evidence.

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

In conclusion, I have tried to warn members here, as has CSA.

Warning others about such developments, if legitimate, is certainly a good thing.
However, unsubstantiated and/or embellished/overblown fear-mongering serves nobody...well, except those who offer authentication services I suppose...

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by freefly

[PRSWILL]

SO I think I see what's happening here. There's counterfeiters out there buying LOWER cost REAL SeaDwellers as an example, and putting them into the Cameron cases- THAT I can see happening. There was a fraken-Cameron on this board mid-2018.
Buying a Genuine Rolex in a beat-up old case and "repackaging" them to improve margin could be done easily.

My only comment was that to attain a significant volume of 100% genuine (new) movements and putting them in fake cases- not happening. The security at ROLEX is too high and there's no way that enough movements- if any, walk away.

All of the examples you mention could EASILY be lower cost Subs/GMT/Seadweller/Seamaster movements- reboxed ands upsold and I'd believe that all day long.

[05carbondrz]

Originally Posted by PRSWILL

SO I think I see what's happening here. There's counterfeiters out there buying LOWER cost REAL SeaDwellers as an example, and putting them into the Cameron cases- THAT I can see happening. There was a fraken-Cameron on this board mid-2018.
Buying a Genuine Rolex in a beat-up old case and "repackaging" them to improve margin could be done easily.

My only comment was that to attain a significant volume of 100% genuine (new) movements and putting them in fake cases- not happening. The security at ROLEX is too high and there's no way that enough movements- if any, walk away.

All of the examples you mention could EASILY be lower cost Subs/GMT/Seadweller/Seamaster movements- reboxed ands upsold and I'd believe that all day long.

This makes the most sense to me as well.Take an original movement from a lesser Sub,put it in a fake Hulk Case and then part out the original Sub.

[mistermann]

Originally Posted by 05carbondrz

This makes the most sense to me as well.Take an original movement from a lesser Sub,put it in a fake Hulk Case and then part out the original Sub.

Or put a high quality non original movement into the lesser sub as well instead of parting out the sub.

[CorradoBrit]

Seems like a big disconnect here

"Movement is 100% genuine and untouched
Case, dial, bezel and bracelet are fake"

"good news. Just came from a swiss watch servicing centre. They open the case and verified case, rehaut and inner mechanics and they confirmed it's genuine."

Does Rolex put a serial number on their movements?

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

Does Rolex put a serial number on their movements?

Yes

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

Does Rolex put a serial number on their movements?

And you question me?
Have you ever seen inside a Rolex??

[TAG_TOSSER]

I’m reading this thread as a neutral- I do not understand why this forum allows conspiracy tbeories and fake truths. Very frustrating. I honestly don’t make much of claims that are in all caps and filled with condescending comments.