Rolex 1655 Freccione: your opinion.

[El prosa]

Good morning Gents,
I'd like to know your opinion about this 1980 Freccione. Serial is 6,4. I'd like to know what do you think about lugs. It seems to me one is thinner than others.
Unfortunatly I only have this pics.
Thanks a lot.

[btinl]

It has been polished

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by btinl

It has been polished

Sure it is, unfortunately I can't afford a 1980's 1655 never touched ;)
My question is: what do you think, is it still a good piece, or better I move forward?
Thanks a lot!

[1675-David]

the case looks good, it's the dial that troubles me, looks like some problem around the plots

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

the case looks good, it's the dial that troubles me, looks like some problem around the plots

Something like tritium dust or something? Maybe fosforum. What do you think?
Many thanks.

[swish77]

Decent example at the end of the MKIV range, but agreed that the tritium on the dial's hour markers has issues, as if it's flaked off, or at least some of it, leaving that uneven patina/coloring of the tritium.

Looks pretty good all around except that problem, which is significant, IMHO.

Sure, many vintage dials will have some kind of issue, but you want it to be minimal, which it ain't in this case.

[El prosa]

Thanks a lot for your answer. Do you think this dust will continue to detach itself from indexes leaving them naked, or it's possible to blow it away and the problem will be solved? Thanks a lot.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by El prosa

Thanks a lot for your answer. Do you think this dust will continue to detach itself from indexes leaving them naked, or it's possible to blow it away and the problem will be solved? Thanks a lot.

No, it's a bigger issue than that. I suspect that the top layer of tritium has flaked away on the larger markers, leaving them whiter than the smaller darker square markers at the edge of the dial. See how the patina is different when comparing the markers? That can never be fixed, not naturally or easily, anyway. (That's just a theory based on the photos. I don't know for sure what caused it, of course.)

I'd only pursue if that issue doesn't bother you and the watch is priced accordingly. But know that you'd need to live with it.

[El prosa]

It's absolutely as you say: the bigger markers are clearer and around some of them there is a strange "dust". Price is quite good, but not great!
Can you also tell me something about the insert? Is it mk4? I don't feel confortable with this reference.
Thank you very much for the answers.

[/B][/B]

Originally Posted by swish77

No, it's a bigger issue than that. I suspect that the top layer of tritium has flaked away on the larger markers, leaving them whiter than the smaller darker square markers at the edge of the dial. See how the patina is different when comparing the markers? That can never be fixed, not naturally or easily, anyway. (That's just a theory based on the photos. I don't know for sure what caused it, of course.)

I'd only pursue if that issue doesn't bother you and the watch is priced accordingly. But know that you'd need to live with it.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by El prosa

It's absolutely as you say: the bigger markers are clearer and around some of them there is a strange "dust". Price is quite good, but not great!
Can you also tell me something about the insert? Is it mk4? I don't feel confortable with this reference.
Thank you very much for the answers.

[/B][/B]

Yes, the bezel appears to be MKIV, like the dial, and accepted right up until around the 6.5 million serial numbers, or thereabouts.

[El prosa]

Any other opinion guys? Thanks.

[Tom1675]

That's some odd smudging on the plots. With any vintage piece the dial is where a great deal of the value lies... You would have to be getting this for a GREAT deal for it to be priced well, and then be OK with the condition every time you looked at it. I suspect, after a while as you become more familiar with vintage, you will need to swap this one for a better example. When you do, it will be painful due to this dial.

[dhknola]

Originally Posted by Tom1675

That's some odd smudging on the plots. With any vintage piece the dial is where a great deal of the value lies... You would have to be getting this for a GREAT deal for it to be priced well, and then be OK with the condition every time you looked at it.

I really agree with this, if the price is beyond right, get it for what it is; if the price is wrong walk away.

The dial would not be a deal killer for me if you were going to wear this watch, it still has tons of character....all breaks down to what they are asking/will take for the watch.

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by dhknola

I really agree with this, if the price is beyond right, get it for what it is; if the price is wrong walk away.

The dial would not be a deal killer for me if you were going to wear this watch, it still has tons of character....all breaks down to what they are asking/will take for the watch.

Thanks a lot for your opinion guys. At this point let me ask a very direct question (I sincerely hope that it is in accordance with the forum's rules): how much would you pay for this? I like it, but for sure I don't want to lose money when I decide to sell it. Also because I'll have to sell my 5513 that I love to buy it!

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by Tom1675

That's some odd smudging on the plots. With any vintage piece the dial is where a great deal of the value lies... You would have to be getting this for a GREAT deal for it to be priced well, and then be OK with the condition every time you looked at it. I suspect, after a while as you become more familiar with vintage, you will need to swap this one for a better example. When you do, it will be painful due to this dial.

Thanks Tom. How much this deal should be in your opinion? 16k? 12k? 10k?

[El prosa]

Bump!

[SubKing]

the 1655 dials are a little tricky. The finish on them are matte but a smoother matte than on other dials..

I have seen random darkening on the very edges of the dials that happen just from age or UV exposure while others would think it was water spotting or oil staining.

But, from my experience, when I see that the lume is effected in the area's of the darkening, that tells me at some point that watch came into contact with water.

In some cases the staining is worse than others.. You have to inspect the entire case and movement and look for pitting or corrosion.

The smudging is suspect of possible poorly done dial restoration. Perhaps someone tried to brush off the staining on the tritium?

Once you properly determine the extent of the damage, that's when you can put a fair price on the watch.

Overall the watch does look period correct from what i can see in the photos provided.

these watches tend to go for north of 20k in nice condition, so I suppose you should start doing as much investigating into that piece as possible and start subtracting. The dial being the largest part that will depreciate this piece. For me, it's too hard to put a fair value on it when there are too many unknowns. I need clear macros and pictures in between the lugs and pictures of the movement to determine.

Just my 2 cents

[El prosa]

Thanks a lot SubKing.
I'm sorry but i don't have pics of serial and reference. I know Is important... The seller is asking 16k. But i know you need more pics to say if it's correct.
Thanks a lot.

[storm66]

I like it......it’s a very nice vintage Rolex, not perfect but
Buy it , wear it, enjoy it...... you’re always get your money back if not a bit of profit in a few years, and in the meantime you’re enjoy wearing a desirable vintage watch......
Go for it 👍

[TurboWatch]

those tritium smudges can be easily cleaned up by any competent watchmaker. Very easy !

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by TurboWatch

those tritium smudges can be easily cleaned up by any competent watchmaker. Very easy !

Really? Like blowing away that kind of dust?

[TurboWatch]

Originally Posted by El prosa

Really? Like blowing away that kind of dust?

Nope. That's not tritium dust that you're seeing.

It has to be scraped off and cleaned. I've had it done to one my Omega SpeedMasters

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by storm66

I like it......it’s a very nice vintage Rolex, not perfect but
Buy it , wear it, enjoy it...... you’re always get your money back if not a bit of profit in a few years, and in the meantime you’re enjoy wearing a desirable vintage watch......
Go for it 👍

Thanks. What do you think about the case?

[storm66]

Originally Posted by El prosa

Thanks. What do you think about the case?

I haven’t a clue about the case..... all I know is,it’s a 39 year old watch that I personally like.....

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by storm66

I haven’t a clue about the case..... all I know is,it’s a 39 year old watch that I personally like.....

[El prosa]

Hello again gents, I got some more pics of this "Freccione". What do you think? Thanks a lot.

[Lgear080]

The dial is a bust for me... and I have a hard time with the hand set. It’s as if they’re from a different time period than the watch and dial. Clearly different levels of exposure.

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by Lgear080

The dial is a bust for me... and I have a hard time with the hand set. It’s as if they’re from a different time period than the watch and dial. Clearly different levels of exposure.

Thanks forse your opinion. What about "orig Rolex design"? Is It correct on this serial? Thanks.

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by El prosa

Thanks forse your opinion. What about "orig Rolex design"? Is It correct on this serial? Thanks.

it's right about then the change over occurs from REGISTERED DESIGN.. yours is 6.4m, I've seen REGISTERED DESIGN on later cases but with Rolex nobody know's 100% but someone round here will know more than me thats for sure

[El prosa]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

it's right about then the change over occurs from REGISTERED DESIGN.. yours is 6.4m, I've seen REGISTERED DESIGN on later cases but with Rolex nobody know's 100% but someone round here will know more than me thats for sure

Ok. Thanks a lot. I read "ORIG ROLEX DESIGN" it's about from 7 million. Or on some service cases that the owners have had write the same serial number of the original case (different then from the usual 4 million for the service cases). Something like that... I also have seen some 7,5 million with REGISTERED DESIGN, but I think the exception applies only in one direction and not in the other. Maybe I'm wrong, of course. Thanks a lot.