The state of Rolex Subs -more common than Seiko?

[Bearxj86]

Gentlemen,

Please feel free to challenge me. This is my 2nd trip to Japan in 2 years. Most folks that understand Japan also know they have an incredibly robust grey market.

Anyway, 5 days in and I have seen over 30 rolexes on wrists, the majority are ceramic subs followed by datejusts, one hulk, one bluesy, one root beer. A pair of AP 44mm rose gold royal oak offshores on rubber and some smaller aquanauts on women.

This is about 2-3 more than last year and of course the majority of these are on Chinese tourists in the popular spots.

What does this mean? Rolex is still a fine timepiece and extremely beautiful and coveted. However seeing a ceramic steel sub literally everywhere and many on some rather loud and obnoxious Chinese tourists has made me want to not own one (yes seeing a 44mm royal oak on a small Asian wrist is also quite a trip) This is a personal reaction and i’m Chinese so don’t be saying I am racist lol. I actually felt pretty good leaving my collection behind and sticking with my grand seiko snowflake for the trip which I can say I have not seen another yet.

Did not see a ceramic Daytona yet which is a somewhat good sign

What does this mean for us collectors? Will the rarer pieces get even more coveted because the basic sub is becoming commoditized?

[Navarino]

I'd say in LA by far the most common luxury watch I see on other men is a Sub. Not saying I see them everywhere, but it's the most common among the luxury watches I take notice to.

A lot of times they aren't the current 6 digit ceramic reference -- I've spotted plenty of 5 digits Subs out and about.

[Late]

Originally Posted by Carry The Interest

I'd say in LA by far the most common luxury watch I see on other men is a Sub. Not saying I see them everywhere, but it's the most common among the luxury watches I take notice to.

I wonder how many are really Subs. I worked downtown Manhattan (as one of my offices) up until about 14 months ago; I saw quite a few DateJust - which few other watches look like - and a lot of Sub-inspired watches and some Subs.

Once I started paying attention, I was surprised how few such watches were actually Rolex. Even the Parnis, which is south of $50, is a decent copy from a distance. It's more similar than the Tudor Black Bay, which is very Sub-ish if you don't get a good look at the hands. For a while, Invicta made a clone except quartz (seconds-tick.) You'd be amazed how people will brag about their watch being "just as good but a better value" while pulling hair off their arms and turning their skin green. I can't recall a single conversation where the non-Rolex-owner was offended of me asking about their watch. (And yeah, I'm the guy who can talk to anyone, so I do.)

But not much else looks like a Rolesor or PM DJ. (i.e. sharp flutes on the bezel, Jubilee bracelet.)

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by Late

I wonder how many are really Subs. I worked downtown Manhattan (as one of my offices) up until about 14 months ago; I saw quite a few DateJust - which few other watches look like - and a lot of Sub-inspired watches and some Subs.

Once I started paying attention, I was surprised how few such watches were actually Rolex. Even the Parnis, which is south of $50, is a decent copy from a distance. It's more similar than the Tudor Black Bay, which is very Sub-ish if you don't get a good look at the hands. For a while, Invicta made a clone except quartz (seconds-tick.) You'd be amazed how people will brag about their watch being "just as good but a better value" while pulling hair off their arms and turning their skin green. I can't recall a single conversation where the non-Rolex-owner was offended of me asking about their watch. (And yeah, I'm the guy who can talk to anyone, so I do.)

But not much else looks like a Rolesor or PM DJ. (i.e. sharp flutes on the bezel, Jubilee bracelet.)

95% sure. I usually can tell the profile from a distance and then tell depending on the differential polish on the bezel whether it is modern (more shiny) or vintange. Also can tell whether it is a ceramic or non ceramic. I then look at the clasp to see if it is fliplock or glidelock. There is maxi case versus non maxi case.

You can say I can be a bit stalkerish lol.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Late

I wonder how many are really Subs. I worked downtown Manhattan (as one of my offices) up until about 14 months ago; I saw quite a few DateJust - which few other watches look like - and a lot of Sub-inspired watches and some Subs.

Once I started paying attention, I was surprised how few such watches were actually Rolex. Even the Parnis, which is south of $50, is a decent copy from a distance. It's more similar than the Tudor Black Bay, which is very Sub-ish if you don't get a good look at the hands. For a while, Invicta made a clone except quartz (seconds-tick.) You'd be amazed how people will brag about their watch being "just as good but a better value" while pulling hair off their arms and turning their skin green. I can't recall a single conversation where the non-Rolex-owner was offended of me asking about their watch. (And yeah, I'm the guy who can talk to anyone, so I do.)

But not much else looks like a Rolesor or PM DJ. (i.e. sharp flutes on the bezel, Jubilee bracelet.)

Been in Manhattan for 20 years. There are tons of subs, especially amongst the "midtown uniform" types. Walk the trading floor of any bank and you used to see tons of subs. Now you see tons of apple watches. There are more common on the banking side of the house.

[miket-nyc]

Originally Posted by Late

I wonder how many are really Subs. I worked downtown Manhattan (as one of my offices) up until about 14 months ago; I saw quite a few DateJust - which few other watches look like - and a lot of Sub-inspired watches and some Subs.

Once I started paying attention, I was surprised how few such watches were actually Rolex. Even the Parnis, which is south of $50, is a decent copy from a distance. It's more similar than the Tudor Black Bay, which is very Sub-ish if you don't get a good look at the hands. For a while, Invicta made a clone except quartz (seconds-tick.) You'd be amazed how people will brag about their watch being "just as good but a better value" while pulling hair off their arms and turning their skin green. I can't recall a single conversation where the non-Rolex-owner was offended of me asking about their watch. (And yeah, I'm the guy who can talk to anyone, so I do.)

But not much else looks like a Rolesor or PM DJ. (i.e. sharp flutes on the bezel, Jubilee bracelet.)

This is interesting. I work in downtown Manhattan also, and regularly go to a gym off Wall Street (which probably has many showoff-$$$ people as you'll find). I seldom see men, at least the younger ones, wearing ANY watch. They all use their phones to tell time, which is as inconvenient as telling time with a pocket watch (or worse -- you don't have to push buttons on a pocket watch to turn it on before you can read it).

[pkincy]

Must be a young guy or new guy thing. I suppose it is a good watch, but lusting after a Dive watch never appealed to me. Haven't dive computers been the thing for many years?
So isn't it a pretty worthless "tool?"

I do like the colors and contrast of the Bluesy but don't expect to ever get one due to the size and thickness.

[Dawg2]

Originally Posted by pkincy

Must be a young guy or new guy thing. I suppose it is a good watch, but lusting after a Dive watch never appealed to me. Haven't dive computers been the thing for many years?
So isn't it a pretty worthless "tool?"

I do like the colors and contrast of the Bluesy but don't expect to ever get one due to the size and thickness.

No. I always dive with a mechanical watch, regardless of a computer.

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[Brny11]

Originally Posted by pkincy

Must be a young guy or new guy thing. I suppose it is a good watch, but lusting after a Dive watch never appealed to me. Haven't dive computers been the thing for many years?
So isn't it a pretty worthless "tool?"

I do like the colors and contrast of the Bluesy but don't expect to ever get one due to the size and thickness.

By your rational, mechanical watches are useless (phone, $10 quartz watches which look great, etc). Is that also your opinion? Or just the dive feature? I don’t use the dive feature often, but with a slight imagination it can be useful. Or is it only allowed to be used for diving in your opinion? Most important, I find them to be the most timeless and aesthetically appealing watches in the game. So I have 3 including a Seiko, Tudor and Rolex.

To OP, this is no secret. Subs and DJ are the most popular, and for good reason IMO. I also agree that they are a common choice for non-WIS type just trying to make an impression (or as you say, loud tourists). That doesn’t change my opinion of them one bit.

[superstarmar]

I wear what I want for me not for anyone else .
What others wear does not dictate my collection or
taste/preference regarding my watches ...
All this means is that more people have good taste .

[s.m.b.]

Originally Posted by superstarmar

I wear what I want for me not for anyone else .
What others wear does not dictate my collection or
taste/preference regarding my watches ...
All this means is that more people have good taste .

[hbk75]

that is why i started switching over to seiko sumo.

[Heff]

Originally Posted by superstarmar

I wear what I want for me not for anyone else .

What others wear does not dictate my collection or

taste/preference regarding my watches ...

All this means is that more people have good taste .

Agree. I would love if everyone had a Rolex, then they would know how awesome they are!

Exclusivity means very little to me.


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[Jamie1111]

Originally Posted by superstarmar

I wear what I want for me not for anyone else .
What others wear does not dictate my collection or
taste/preference regarding my watches ...
All this means is that more people have good taste .

You know it!

[mr_gray]

i think there is more interest in specific watches (rolex, AP etc) more than a general increase in interest in watches (that has happened but i think that is separate to current demand levels).

i do think a watch like the pepsi is a great indicator of what happens. i mean that watch has always appealed to most. with current demand levels that has meant huge price increases.

so specific models are already impacted and maybe forever (hulk, daytona, gmt) but i think rarer watches that people are into for movements etc won't move at all.

my 2 cents.

(also, i love seeing fancy watches on people, but as per OP, sometimes it doesn't make you want the watch more. sometimes it does. my main issue is envy because i often see a sub and think it looks a lot better on other people than it does me).

[jb335]

Originally Posted by mr_gray

my main issue is envy because i often see a sub and think it looks a lot better on other people than it does me).

Haha!! I think the same thing when I see a Sub C on someone else. Why does it look better on them? Lol

We are always just more critical and harder on ourselves.


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[DLCU2]

If seeing the same watch on other people bothers you, just sell your sub and/or other Rolexes and enjoy your Seiko.

I personally don’t wear watches for other people, I wear it for myself. Life is to short to get bothered by things like this. Cheers!

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Gentlemen,

Please feel free to challenge me. This is my 2nd trip to Japan in 2 years. Most folks that understand Japan also know they have an incredibly robust grey market.

Anyway, 5 days in and I have seen over 30 rolexes on wrists, the majority are ceramic subs followed by datejusts, one hulk, one bluesy, one root beer. A pair of AP 44mm rose gold royal oak offshores on rubber and some smaller aquanauts on women.

This is about 2-3 more than last year and of course the majority of these are on Chinese tourists in the popular spots.

What does this mean? Rolex is still a fine timepiece and extremely beautiful and coveted. However seeing a ceramic steel sub literally everywhere and many on some rather loud and obnoxious Chinese tourists has made me want to not own one (yes seeing a 44mm royal oak on a small Asian wrist is also quite a trip) This is a personal reaction and i’m Chinese so don’t be saying I am racist lol. I actually felt pretty good leaving my collection behind and sticking with my grand seiko snowflake for the trip which I can say I have not seen another yet.

Did not see a ceramic Daytona yet which is a somewhat good sign

What does this mean for us collectors? Will the rarer pieces get even more coveted because the basic sub is becoming commoditized?

[Frank McKay]

Originally Posted by DLCU2

If seeing the same watch on other people bothers you, just sell your sub and/or other Rolexes and enjoy your Seiko.

I personally don’t wear watches for other people, I wear it for myself. Life is to short to get bothered by things like this. Cheers!

Perfectly said.

[hawkeye43]

You mean to tell me the majority of the Rolexes you saw were Subs and Datejusts. It’s almost like like they are the flagship models.....

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by hawkeye43

You mean to tell me the majority of the Rolexes you saw were Subs and Datejusts. It’s almost like like they are the flagship models.....

True...I just saw a Mk4 dial red sub today and it made my day :)

[APPRF]

If I get on a bus and see everyone wearing Rolex I will still not wear a Grand Seiko instead of me Rolex.

[Muxi]

Originally Posted by APPRF

If I get on a bus and see everyone wearing Rolex I will still not wear a Grand Seiko instead of me Rolex.

True, and I’ve been trying very hard to like GS sports models but they’re all so big

[thesharkfactor]

The Submariner is the most copied watch in the world and the copies are made in China. I wonder how many real Submariners you actually saw on your visit, we’ll never know.
Fact is, it’s a very attractive and desirable watch that appeals to everyone.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

The Submariner is the most copied watch in the world and the copies are made in China. I wonder how many real Submariners you actually saw on your visit, we’ll never know.
Fact is, it’s a very attractive and desirable watch that appeals to everyone.

There is a massive difference between Japan and China. I would bet everything he saw in Tokyo was real. Japan is very, very anti-fakes of anything.

[LandWatch]

Does it matter if you like it? I really couldn’t care less which watches other people wear, just as I don’t care what cars they drive, what jeans they buy etc!

[DLCU2]

Originally Posted by HighlandWatch

Does it matter if you like it? I really couldn’t care less which watches other people wear, just as I don’t care what cars they drive, what jeans they buy etc!

Op is way overthinking with this hobby...

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by HighlandWatch

Does it matter if you like it? I really couldn’t care less which watches other people wear, just as I don’t care what cars they drive, what jeans they buy etc!

What if every room you walked into there was someone dressed in the exact same clothes as you? Perhaps you might be ok but for me it kinda commoditizes the clothing

[42itus]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

What if every room you walked into there was someone dressed in the exact same clothes as you? Perhaps you might be ok but for me it kinda commoditizes the clothing

I'm glad you expanded on your thoughts. When I initially read your post my reaction was similar to many others that are commenting to wear what you want, yada yada. But I hear you now. If my BMW was as common as a Ford Fusion I wouldn't have bought it.

But watches might be a bit of an exception because I don't think people notice watches as much as "we" do.

[brandrea]

The Submariner is a popular reference and jumping off point for many people who buy Rolex. I see that as meaning it’s a great watch.

[docmarioce]

Rolex sub is the most iconic watch made and has always been relatively inexpensive when compared to other high end Swiss watches. Besides is a very handsome watch, robust, and masculine. Is my favorite watch of all in regards to the looks. I prefer it over any PM or TT Rolex or any other watch or brand. Is the watch I never get tired looking at it. All those attributes make the watch probably the most desirable watch on earth. Unfortunately many people own one but if you bypass that it definitely is a beautiful watch. If you don't then do like me and get a bloated sub aka SD43 more rare and very similar to the sub. I did and cannot be happier.