14060M 2-Liner Advice

[ACF123]

After a few years delay (I've previously been a Glashütte guy so this is a bit of a departure) I have decided to buy my first Rolex and, having spent no insignificant amount of time looking at different references and lurking on this forum, I am now set on a no-date 14060M 2-line Submariner (I think!).

My question is, apart from the obvious (i.e. seller reputation + condition + box and papers), are there any other nuances or factors that should be considered when it comes to no-date 14060M 2-liners?

Thanks in advance!

[dbhak22]

One thing I would call out is that there is "14060" and "14060M"...so just making sure you're aware so you're not only searching on "14060M" as you may be missing out on many more examples. The 'M' version has a slightly different movement (you can search on that).

[ACF123]

Originally Posted by dbhak22

One thing I would call out is that there is "14060" and "14060M"...so just making sure you're aware so you're not only searching on "14060M" as you may be missing out on many more examples. The 'M' version has a slightly different movement (you can search on that).

Thanks for the advice and encouragement folks.

Looking for a 14060M is deliberate in that my simplistic working assumption has been that the caliber 3130 is better than the 3000. I understand the main changes were in relation to the overcoil and the balance wheel and having a full balance bridge (vs balance cock) but my knowledge sort of stops there TBH i.e. I have no real understanding of how significant (or not) these changes are IRL.

All other things being equal would folks generally subscribe to the view that the caliber 3130 is better than the 3000 and take a 14060M over a 14060 if they had the option?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by watchtung

If you are looking for a 14060 there are various lume materials used in that era, you can find some with tritium, luminova, and superluminova. If you are looking for a lume that could (big could) age, or one that is already aged a little then you will want one with the tritium swiss T<25 at the bottom.

Thanks and understood - I am OK without (possible) lume aging and if I go with M per the above then it seems like there is no choice in the matter because Tritium was phased out in 1998 and 14060M introduced in 1999 (or so I gather from other TRF posts).

[watchtung]

If you are looking for a 14060 there are various lume materials used in that era, you can find some with tritium, luminova, and superluminova. If you are looking for a lume that could (big could) age, or one that is already aged a little then you will want one with the tritium swiss T<25 at the bottom.

[justjay82]

The 14060 was my first Rolex buy as well.
Great choice. Wish I still had mine. You’ll love it.

[Rsubnodate]

Originally Posted by justjay82

The 14060 was my first Rolex buy as well.
Great choice. Wish I still had mine. You’ll love it.

Same

[oysterquartz17000]

I've still got my 1996 14060 and it is an amazing watch. It has such an iconic look to it.

[Hendrikus]

The 14060M is a perfect choice! I am only a week or two in to my ownership of it, but I love it. It has yet to come off the wrist.

[RHJ]

My preferred Submariner. Still old style yet saphire and 3130

[Old Expat Beast]

Make sure the crown guards are not overpolished. They often are on the 14060.

[ACF123]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Make sure the crown guards are not overpolished. They often are on the 14060.

Thanks - I've really noticed that on the watches I have seen so far in the UK. But there are a few in Paris of all places at the moment that look to be super sharp. Aiming to get over there to see them in the metal in the next few weeks.

[daveo5]

Aside from some part changes, the primary difference between the two is the finishing on the cosc movement. The edges are beveled, reducing friction, to achieve the COSC rating.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[sillo]

The 3130 is a better movement, but in real world usage you aren't going to notice a difference. The 3000 is also perfectly capable of COSC accuracy as it was COSC certified in the 14270.

If you're set on an M then you rule out tritium dials. Whichever is more important to you is the one you'll have to go with.

For me I wanted a tritium dial so I ended up with a non M, caliber 3000 14060.

[ACF123]

Originally Posted by sillo38

The 3130 is a better movement, but in real world usage you aren't going to notice a difference. The 3000 is also perfectly capable of COSC accuracy as it was COSC certified in the 14270.

If you're set on an M then you rule out tritium dials. Whichever is more important to you is the one you'll have to go with.

For me I wanted a tritium dial so I ended up with a non M, caliber 3000 14060.

Thanks - this is v helpful - appreciate it.

[Crazy Lugs]

Be patient and hold out for a mint case. 7 out of 10 of these watches have a hacked up or overpolished case. As mentioned, always look at the crown guards. Refer to photos of NOS examples so you know what to look for.

Also, be aware these were priced at less than half current retail when new- so the current market value is not aligned with the intrinsic value. In other words, in hand these feel like a $3,500 piece, so if you’ve handled any six-digit references, you might be initially underwhelmed. Fantastic, piece, though- Rolex really nailed it!

[ACF123]

Originally Posted by Crazy Lugs

Be patient and hold out for a mint case. 7 out of 10 of these watches have a hacked up or overpolished case. As mentioned, always look at the crown guards. Refer to photos of NOS examples so you know what to look for.

Also, be aware these were priced at less than half current retail when new- so the current market value is not aligned with the intrinsic value. In other words, in hand these feel like a $3,500 piece, so if you’ve handled any six-digit references, you might be initially underwhelmed. Fantastic, piece, though- Rolex really nailed it!

Thanks. Noted on over-polishing and appreciate the heads-up re potentially being underwhelmed by it in the metal vs six-digit references (that's an interesting point).

FWIW a pic of the one I am going to see in the metal is below (2004 with box and papers and allegedly in "perfect" condition).

Originally Posted by The Libertine

Would be helpful if you know the service history.

Will definitely be asking about serve history - thanks.

[The Libertine]

Would be helpful if you know the service history.

[sillo]

That one looks great. The brushing on the lugs is still very distinct.

Here’s a shot of my supposedly unpolished U serial.

[ACF123]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Here’s a shot of my supposedly unpolished U serial.

Wow that looks great - what a beaut!

Originally Posted by LarsFS

I hope you don't mind some questions, OP - I don't think this qualifies as hijacking the thread, as I intend to stay on topic. Please let me know if I should just start a separate post.

All good mate - please feel free.

Originally Posted by LarsFS

What is the difference between the different lumes mentioned (tritium, luminova, and superluminova)?

I found this post v informative on lume: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...=superluminova

If you look closely at the pic sillo38 posted of his sub above you can see it is just starting to go a bit of a creamy yellow/gold (vs the bright white of the 2004 I am looking at).

EDIT: there will be hundreds of other good examples on TRF, but for a much clearer example of Tritium lume aging have a look at this 1982 GMT (which the dealer I am dealing with on the sub is also selling):

[cpefy3]

Personally I would look for a Tritium example. I think as good examples of 5513 become more and more scarce (expensive) people will start looking at these as good substitute. Good luck on your hunt!!

[LarsFS]

This is helpful for the rest of us who are also on the lookout for the same watch (albeit stateside). I hope you don't mind some questions, OP - I don't think this qualifies as hijacking the thread, as I intend to stay on topic. Please let me know if I should just start a separate post.

Originally Posted by watchtung

If you are looking for a 14060 there are various lume materials used in that era, you can find some with tritium, luminova, and superluminova. If you are looking for a lume that could (big could) age, or one that is already aged a little then you will want one with the tritium swiss T<25 at the bottom.

What do you mean when you say age? As in, it changes/doesn't change color, or in that it continues to glow, despite age? What is the difference between the different lumes mentioned (tritium, luminova, and superluminova)?

Thank you

[sillo]

Originally Posted by LarsFS

This is helpful for the rest of us who are also on the lookout for the same watch (albeit stateside). I hope you don't mind some questions, OP - I don't think this qualifies as hijacking the thread, as I intend to stay on topic. Please let me know if I should just start a separate post.



What do you mean when you say age? As in, it changes/doesn't change color, or in that it continues to glow, despite age? What is the difference between the different lumes mentioned (tritium, luminova, and superluminova)?

Thank you

Tritium will age over time, turning a yellowish color with over time. It's a radioactive paint mix that doesn't need light to glow, but has a half life of 12 years so at this point they're all basically dead and do not give off a usable amount of lume

Luminova and Superluminova are the same thing. The difference in name comes from where the material was produced. I believe the SL is produced under licence in Europe while Luminova was produced in Japan. I may not be 100% right there about production, but they are functionally the same. They use light to charge up and as far as we know do not age like tritium and will continue to provide usable lume for the life of the watch.

Dials marked T<25 are Tritium
Dials marked Swiss are Luminova
Dials marked Swiss Made are Superluminova

[Firsttimebuyer14060M]

Jumping into this this old 14060M conversation and wondering if there is a 14060M (e.g. 3135) that has the Tritium dial or are they all Superluminova? I'm currently looking at a 1999 that is Superluminova, and I think this is the first year of the 14060M reference.

I'm a first time buyer and looking for an example that has the more vintage look and feel (two liner) but later model mechanics. Though, it seems like a shame not to get the Tritium and the patina that comes with that.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by Firsttimebuyer14060M

Jumping into this this old 14060M conversation and wondering if there is a 14060M (e.g. 3135) that has the Tritium dial or are they all Superluminova?

All Ms are luminova

[lx384]

I own both the two liner and the 4 liner 14060M. If I could travel back in time, I would have gotten a two liner with a tritium dial instead. The color of the tritium markers gives the watch so much character. *Drool*

[faimag]

As all other have said, the 14060 is a great ref. Here is mine from 1991:

[Oldfellow]

Originally Posted by faimag

As all other have said, the 14060 is a great ref. Here is mine from 1991:

That looks stunning.
Whilst not as amazing as yours, I have a 14060M 2 liner and it is my favorite Rolex.

[Kliminator]

Originally Posted by faimag

As all other have said, the 14060 is a great ref. Here is mine from 1991:

Awesome condition. Lugs still look crispy

[stil]

Originally Posted by faimag

As all other have said, the 14060 is a great ref. Here is mine from 1991:

That looks awesome. I have a '93 and am waiting for the dial and hands to show a bit more yellowing...

[illiguy]

Sounds like you’ve put a lot of time and effort into researching before concluding to want a 14060M 2-Liner. Excellent choice.

That said, if you want the most modern version of the 14060M (and I assume you’ve already ruled this out), you should check out the late series 14060Ms before they were discontinued. To me, the late model 4-Liner is perfection.