Question: Patek, Rolex, and Dealer "Loyalty"

[daOnlyBG]

Hello all,

I've never posted in the Patek subforum, but thought this would be the appropriate place to ask this question.

As a budding watch collector, I have developed a "relationship" with one Rolex boutique, where I've spent about ~$50K on various Rolex watches. The other day, while chatting with my AD on the phone, I asked whether my "history" applies toward purchasing Pateks in the future. He said "no, only Rolex," despite the fact that the AD (in its other locations) is an authorized Patek dealer.

Now, this could simply be explained that the salesperson doesn't sell Patek, only Rolex, because the specific location only caters to the Rolex market.

I would like to ask, though, whether working with an AD that sells both Patek and Rolex under the same roof would allow me to "double dip" with regards to purchase history, since I'm giving the same dealer business either way. I anticipate someday buying a Patek to add the final touch to my collection.

Have any Patek/Rolex collectors here used purchase history from one watch brand to apply toward the other?

Thanks in advance!

[kepler22]

This is an interesting post. The AD I deal with sells both Patek and Rolex, I have spent similar amounts with them and was enquiring about a Patek the other day. My purchase history will not open any doors to a sought after Patek, such as a Nautilus. A complication, not an issue, so I suppose it depends what Patek you are after. In addition if you buy other products such as jewellery that may help, but unless you have a really good relationship your AD you will have to spend at least as much as what you have spent on watches. Furthermore, the AD I deal with only keeps a register of interest (not a priority list) and allocation of sought after SS Rolex models and SS Patek is made by a director. Good luck with your search!

[Calatrava r]

The good news for PP customers is the market is starting to soften on the aftermarket as reported here and elsewhere. Whether this is a start of a trend or a blip remains to be seen. But how nice it would be if the customer mattered and long term potential owners could enter the desirable Patek market at retail. I would love to see TS telling folks we are trying to earn your business.

[np2016]

My AD sells both Patek and Rolex. After purchasing a 5167a I was offered a 116500ln which I bought even though I never mentioned any interest in to my AD. They know my current collection and thought it would be a nice timepiece to add to it. I was then fortunate enough to be offered a 5711/1a-011 which they knew I wanted that I waited on and purchased. I am now waiting for a 5712 so hopefully that will happen in 2020. I would definitely switch to an AD that carries both brands and focus on dealing with one sales associate or manager for all your purchases.

[Pim]

My AD also sells Patek and Rolex. After a good first conversation I felt we connected and had a good understanding. I still thought that I would never be considered for any favors or special treatment as i will never rise to the 'fat ninja' levels of purchasing.
After a month i bought a low-end Rolex and expressed my interest in a 5212A, a 5167A and a steel Sky-Dweller. The AD told me that 'he would do his best' on the pieces.

To my surprise he came back to me within a month and offered me a SS Sky-Dweller which i took. I am actually now convinced that he is actually doing his best on the Pateks as well, given the circumstances. The circumstances here being that he did not receive a single 5212A yet and there is quite a waiting list for the 5167A.

This is the first time that I experienced a 'relationsship' with an AD and I do believe that I have good odds on a Patek

[AK797]

Everyone wants to be an AD customer now because they stand to make lots of easy cash, so really you have to buy loss makers or have had an established relationship before the hype to be credible.

[crack3rd]

Originally Posted by ak797

everyone wants to be an ad customer now because they stand to make lots of easy cash, so really you have to buy loss makers or have had an established relationship before the hype to be credible.

+1

[Sheldor]

I switched to an AD that carries both brands and purchases at the store have really helped my ability to obtain pieces in btoh categories. Purchasing Patek pieces helped allow access to hard to get stainless steel rolex watches. At the same time interval purchases of those watches (all around 10k or less) helped to sustain continued business with the dealer without having the purchase back to back pateks and only the ones I truly wanted. In summary, I started with two pateks the two rolex, now on list for another Patek.

[jon_jon]

It depends on the AD and your purchase history. Are your Rolex purchases all SS in-demand professional models or have you also purchased some PM slower selling Rolex? The same for Patek, whether you purchased some slow sellers or just are requesting SS Nautilus/Aquanaut.

Also some ADs have a long wait list of Rolex customers and a shorter list for Patek and vice versa. If you find an AD in a small to medium size city that sells both and they do not have hundreds of regular customers, you stand a better chance, than working with an AD in a major city with long list of clients who spend six figures regularly each year.

[Josh1000]

My purchases have all been PP. However he did offer me daytina BLNR and Pepsi all of which I too

[Andad]

If your AD sells both Rolex and Patek and tells you that your Rolex purchases have no bearing on your possible access to Patek purchases then your AD is dumber than a box of nails.

[Tricolore66]

From what I’ve seen, Patek’s allocation of certain pieces requires the dealer to advocate on behalf of a particular client with the PP rep, who doesn’t care how many Rolex’s you’ve bought. In fact, a big Rolex history only begs the question “why hasn’t the client put that money into PP watches that we do have available?” and might even work against you. I don’t think Rolex drills down to the client level when it comes to allocation and it’s basically the discretion of the AD as to who gets what. Both are appropriate given their production numbers and brand positioning.

[Fat_ninja]

Hey OP,

I’d recommend going with a big chain but finding a good sales person that will go to bat for you. Remember as much as you are positioning your relationship... companies grow and shrink...and those sales people have career aspirations as well. So they’ll move. Nothing is forever.


Find someone you like that doesn’t feed u bs I find is key. At the end of the day you are the client.

[daOnlyBG]

Thank you all for your responses. Each has been helpful.

Originally Posted by Tricolore66

From what I’ve seen, Patek’s allocation of certain pieces requires the dealer to advocate on behalf of a particular client with the PP rep, who doesn’t care how many Rolex’s you’ve bought. In fact, a big Rolex history only begs the question “why hasn’t the client put that money into PP watches that we do have available?” and might even work against you.

That's actually really, really insightful- and I'll probably ask around to see if others can confirm that ADs petition the PP reps. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

As for the big Rolex purchasing history- though you bring up an interesting point, I can't help but think it's a bit of a stretch for an AD to think I'm simply a flipper (which I presume is what you're referring to) simply because I spend money at a Rolex boutique. I guess I could communicate that I one day hope to own a grand complications as opposed to, say, an Aquanaut (the latter of which I sincerely have no interest in owning- no offense). At that point, PP is simply a different class of product altogether, and I naturally wouldn't be ready to splurge God knows how much on a split-second chronograph if the current "target watch" is, say, a Batman GMT or something.

Originally Posted by jon_jon

....Are your Rolex purchases all SS in-demand professional models or have you also purchased some PM slower selling Rolex? The same for Patek, whether you purchased some slow sellers or just are requesting SS Nautilus/Aquanaut.

TBH, it's a 5004R that I'd like to someday own. We're thinking long-term here, of course- not sure whether those are allocation pieces or not.

Originally Posted by AK797

Everyone wants to be an AD customer now because they stand to make lots of easy cash, so really you have to buy loss makers or have had an established relationship before the hype to be credible.

Oh I understand. I've purchased a few non-allocation Rolexes. I'm guessing the allocation Rolexes won't mean much when it comes to buying PP.

Originally Posted by directioneng

If your AD sells both Rolex and Patek and tells you that your Rolex purchases have no bearing on your possible access to Patek purchases then your AD is dumber than a box of nails.

lol
The boutique itself only sells Rolex, by definition of a boutique. The parent company sells both. Not sure how the boutique-parent relationship works, but even if the AD is that dumb, they're still... unfortunately... the AD, and they swing that leverage around like a big, well... you know.

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

I’d recommend going with a big chain but finding a good sales person that will go to bat for you. Remember as much as you are positioning your relationship... companies grow and shrink...and those sales people have career aspirations as well. So they’ll move. Nothing is forever.

Find someone you like that doesn’t feed u bs I find is key. At the end of the day you are the client.

It's solid advice- sales associates do move around.

I'm, like, 98% certain that half of what ADs tell me is either exaggerated or flat out false. However, it's difficult to simply write-off the ones that actually do work with me, even when I have a difficult time believing some of the stuff they say.

Going forward, though, I will look for that AD who will "go to bat for" me. Might be tough to see right away though, but hey, the journey is long and the best things in life are worth the wait.

[jon_jon]

The 5004R has been discontinued for ~10 years. However if you are looking for the 5204R, they are produced in small numbers and ADs have to request them for a client typically. But I have seen 5204P available at ADs for sale without specially ordering them (usually in Asia, but occasionally in Europe). So I suspect 5204R will be the same. 5204 typically sells for a discount on the secondary market, so they are not high demand watches.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

The 5004R has been discontinued for ~10 years. However if you are looking for the 5204R, they are produced in small numbers and ADs have to request them for a client typically. But I have seen 5204P available at ADs for sale without specially ordering them (usually in Asia, but occasionally in Europe). So I suspect 5204R will be the same. 5204 typically sells for a discount on the secondary market, so they are not high demand watches.

Sorry- I'm new to this. Heck I'm not even there yet.

I suppose the equivalent would be the 5204, yes. I do hope that by the time I've established a relationship and am ready to buy, the future split-second chrono would feature numerical hour markers like the 5004 did.

Could one leverage the purchase of a 5204 to acquire a Nautilus? (out of curiosity- I'm not really a big fan, to be quite honest, but I'm curious how this stuff works)

[jcoltrane]

I can't speak for every AD, but mine sells Patek and Rolex and they were straight with me from the beginning that there's no loyalty crossover. Obviously, the AD likes this because it forces you to spend more money, but I happen to love both brands, so that didn't matter to me.

If you buy a 5204, you'll definitely get a Nautilus allocation. Perhaps not immediately, but that's the dream scenario for an AD.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by jcoltrane

I can't speak for every AD, but mine sells Patek and Rolex and they were straight with me from the beginning that there's no loyalty crossover. Obviously, the AD likes this because it forces you to spend more money, but I happen to love both brands, so that didn't matter to me.

If you buy a 5204, you'll definitely get a Nautilus allocation. Perhaps not immediately, but that's the dream scenario for an AD.

I don't know why the term "loyalty crossover" didn't come to me. Thanks!

[spiker]

I have purchased a few Rolexes from a few AD's but none where PP Ad's. I was never "that" loyal. When I wanted to purchase a 5712 I called around and found a Rolex/PP AD and in 3 months (2017) I received my 5712. I think a lot of this loyalty comes down to just timing.

[MikeT]

My AD who has Rolex and Patek and I've purchased Rolexes from.I Mentioned was interested in a Nautilus not a particular model, I was told it would be a long wait. Then 3 weeks later was offered a 5980/1ar. Will be my first Patek

[Mike Jab]

Your AD is taking you for a fool. I'd stand up to him and demand to have Pateks allocated to you. Sometimes demanding is better than asking questions.

[Tricolore66]

You do recognize that the dealer holds all the cards here, don’t you? Demands and ultimatums are the surefire way to derail the relationship.

Originally Posted by Mike Jab

Your AD is taking you for a fool. I'd stand up to him and demand to have Pateks allocated to you. Sometimes demanding is better than asking questions.

[np2016]

@daonlybg I just recently purchased a Rolex blnr from my Rolex/Patek AD last Friday even though I'm waiting on a 5712 from him also. He called me and said it would be a great timepiece for my collection since I don't own a gmt do I want it. I went into the AD and bought it after trying it on.

I specifically mentioned to him what you told me about your rolex AD not helping you get a Patek from their other branch location. He said that sounds pretty shady and you should look for an another sales rep or another AD that carries both brands. Most of his clients have Pateks and Rolex timepieces in their collection. He said you should definitely be qualified to at least get an opportunity for a Patek after spending 50k with them.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by np2016

@daonlybg I just recently purchased a Rolex blnr from my Rolex/Patek AD last Friday even though I'm waiting on a 5712 from him also.

Congratulations!

Originally Posted by np2016

I specifically mentioned to him what you told me about your rolex AD not helping you get a Patek from their other branch location. He said that sounds pretty shady and you should look for an another sales rep or another AD that carries both brands... you should definitely be qualified... for a Patek after spending 50k with them.

Thanks for relaying the topic/question.

I think the takeaway from everyone's response here is that a salesman who has benefitted from ~$50K or so in sales from you (hey, by the time I'm ready to buy that Patek, that number will be much higher) should at least be willing to discuss stuff with the retailer's director of sales or the PP sales rep, regardless of whatever official policy the retailer has and its relationship with PP.

However, we have to remember what an "allocation piece" is, whether the item is a watch, automobile, or some other in-demand collectible. The "allocation model" incentivizes the AD to sell the meat of a company's line in exchange for more inventory. If an AD can't sell those Day-Dates, then it won't get those Pepsis.

When I asked my AD whether the spending history with Rolex applies to Patek purchases, he said "No, it's separate." But I try to look at it through his perspective: I'm a guy who just bought a Rolex allocation piece or two. If I'm asking questions about spending history policy with the AD, the only instance where it would be pertinent with said AD is if I was chasing a stainless steel Patek.

The AD's goal isn't to sell me stainless steel Pateks, especially at the heel of selling me stainless steel Rolexes. At that price point, they can get me to purchase a gold Day-Date, so they most certainly will try- after all, it would help them get closer to whatever sales volume quota they're trying to meet. Moreover, it's not like PP would have any problem with an AD discouraging me from purchasing a SS Patek, right?

Though I find myself constantly facing questionable policy, rules, and advice from my AD, I realize two important facts:

1. They really do have all the leverage.
   
2. Technically, they have successfully worked with me- which is far, FAR more than I can say about any other of the umpteen ADs I've spoken with.

I don't gain anything by breaking off my relationship with them. In the interim, I will look for other ADs and hope to find someone who's transparent and honest, which I realize is a ridiculously arduous task.

And if I don't find such an AD, there are still other options out there.

[Waxtactic]

I had it broken down to me by a group that sells Pateks and Rolexs as such:

1) They do want to see a history with the client
2) Rolex acquisitions though do not translate into you picking which PP you would like
3) The reason for #2 is that PP would like to see you build a relationship with them. This means buying other pieces primarily to show you are not a flipper. Once you establish that then you can begin to work with the AD to obtain a more coveted piece like a Naut

Take it for what it's worth, but this guy is a part of a big jewelry group and I have no reason to doubt him (although I am sure things vary from establishment to establishment).

[np2016]

@waxtactic I agree with you 100% my AD told me specifically Patek corporate highly frowns upon individuals making multiple Patek purchases through various AD's. They want clients to build a loyal longterm relationship with one AD and make all their purchases there. He said that is the biggest factor especially when clients ask for allocation pieces.

[daOnlyBG]

So, I should reiterate that in my personal case, this is very much a moot point- the Patek of my dreams is a split-second chronograph, and as I understand, ADs would rush to sell a brand new one to any customer. Moreover, they'd be likely to include the chance to get a 5711.

I'm just bringing up this topic out of curiosity toward the general case regarding crossover loyalty.

[jcoltrane]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

the Patek of my dreams is a split-second chronograph, and as I understand, ADs would rush to sell a brand new one to any customer.

That isn't true, Patek doesn't make nearly enough 5370p for that to be the case.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by jcoltrane

That isn't true, Patek doesn't make nearly enough 5370p for that to be the case.

Actually, I wasn't referring to the 5370P. Nice watch, though.

[Chiboy]

I can't help but read this thread and picture the Soup Nazi in Seinfeld.

If any Joe Blow with $200k (or whatever) can walk in and buy a split second chrono, a HH piece, but you have to be vetted by the the Stern Family themselves to be eligible for an Aquanaut, that says to me that PP isn't concerned about selling pieces to the "right buyer." They are just looking to leverage their highly sought after pieces to the max.

I had history with what is likely your AD and have moved my shopping out of state where there are less whales.