Acquisition Thoughts

[The Argonaut]

Hi TRF,

Quick question: comparatively speaking, and acknowledging that the 5167 and 5164 are caught in the whirlwind of the current PP/SS bubble which means both are pretty much "unobtainium," which of the two do you think is "easier" to acquire from an AD? I use the term "easier" loosely, as neither are "easy" to get, unless money is no object and one goes Grey, or you are a VVVIP.

From conversations I've had with several AD's, most get in more 5167s than 5164s, and the former being $15k at MSRP cheaper, means there are more takers. That means the 5167 could be more difficult to get due to lower price point and more buyers. On the other hand, ADs get less 5164s, but which sells at nearly double MSRP of the 5167. Thus, it could be harder to get as there are fewer with ADs. I know many who want a 5167, and would turn down a 5164 based on its functionality, dislike of the case and dial layout, and the extra cost (which is quite significant). Maybe the 5167 v 5164 debate is irrelevant, and any analysis breaks as both are so sought after.

I ask because I'm focused on acquiring a 5167, but have tried on both many, many times over the last year (and very recently, again) and really do like the 5164 more. I would be happy with either. The 5167 has the simplicity going for it, whereas the 5164 has a function I use as I travel overseas multiple times a year (I also greatly prefer the symmetry of the dial). I know that one cant ask an AD for either, as it looks as if one just wants any Aquanaut. I have a good relationship with my AD, and want to make sure I target the one that I'm more likely to get.

Thoughts?

Thanks
TA

[locutus49]

I don't travel much so I got the 67. I bought it grey as both my AD and the closest Boutique (Beverly Hills) said they are not even taking names.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by locutus49

I don't travel much so I got the 67. I bought it grey as both my AD and the closest Boutique (Beverly Hills) said they are not even taking names.

And I might end up going the same way. With current 5164 prices in the $50k+, I would not be able to get one. I could pick up a grey 5167, although balk at the thought of paying $32k+ for a $20k watch. Insanity.

[Fat_ninja]

Can you put in a flexible indication of interests? Say. I am interested in these watches. I would be happy with any of these

Option 1-5?

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Can you put in a flexible indication of interests? Say. I am interested in these watches. I would be happy with any of these

Option 1-5?

I might do that. I appreciate the thought. I'll sound them out. I'm just wary these days with every man and his dog chasing a 5711 and/or 5167 just because.

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

I might do that. I appreciate the thought. I'll sound them out. I'm just wary these days with every man and his dog chasing a 5711 and/or 5167 just because.

It can work - especially if you have a good SA. It is the exact way I worked The Tiffany dial. List of references and narrow down to availability.


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[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by RHIII

It can work - especially if you have a good SA. It is the exact way I worked The Tiffany dial. List of references and narrow down to availability.


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Some people have this strategy at the bar...

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Some people have this strategy at the bar...

Yes- my wife!


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[yoast]

I'd only get the one you really want... otherwise you will never be satisfied...

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by yoast

I'd only get the one you really want... otherwise you will never be satisfied...

Hi Yoast, absolutely. That being said, I’d genuinely be happy with either, and will not part with whichever I acquire (I’m one of those rare one-watch people, and the 1675 will go to my brother). I prefer the 5164 in terms of function, and the 5167 in terms of pure simplicity and cost! However, as they’re both very difficult to acquire at an AD, I was curious as to whether TRF members had any anecdotal information or guidance as to which one is likely “easier” to source.


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[yoast]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

Hi Yoast, absolutely. That being said, I’d genuinely be happy with either, and will not part with whichever I acquire (I’m one of those rare one-watch people, and the 1675 will go to my brother). I prefer the 5164 in terms of function, and the 5167 in terms of pure simplicity and cost! However, as they’re both very difficult to acquire at an AD, I was curious as to whether TRF members had any anecdotal information or guidance as to which one is likely “easier” to source.


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It's funny as I am currently in the same situation... I have a 67(r) but am trying to get a 64 since a few months but it's hard....
The general consensus used to be that the 64 is easier to get due to the higher price point... I remember before all the craziness, they were trading below list at around 24-25k

[RHIII]

I will echo some of the above sentiments. Get what you want the first time. Settling (especially with a watch) is just a recipe for disaster.

64>67 imho.


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[ap1]

Is there a winning strategy these days. It’s nearly impossible to source any sports from an AD. There is always a top dawg with more spend. You just have to wait it out and hope you still even want the watch. Of course you have to guard against buying other stuff from
Boredom as you hope to get the call

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by ap1

Is there a winning strategy these days. It’s nearly impossible to source any sports from an AD. There is always a top dawg with more spend. You just have to wait it out and hope you still even want the watch. Of course you have to guard against buying other stuff from
Boredom as you hope to get the call

Solid points. I do, and I will wait. It will suck, but I'll wait. We're all doing it, to a lesser or greater degree.

[srvrf]

I'm not sure there's a universal strategy that works but a couple things I'd consider are

• Asking about a 5167/1A. They aren't quite as in demand because people love the rubber strap, but it was how I got one (although having a bracelet option is my preference). Then for I think $1500ish I got the strap and clasp for short sleeve weather.
• I do like the 5164 dial better as I tend to like busier dials (all watches before the 67 were chronographs with multiple subdials), and do travel to different time zones maybe 10 times a year. So I definitely wanted the 64 more than the 67. But as I've owned the 67 I've come to like it more and more. I just think it does so much right - simple, elegant, thin, acurate, and not afraid of a little water. So I do use it for travel and find that with very little though I simply add or subtract a few hours when I want to know my home time.

I know ADs and SAs are all different, but if you have a good relationship with them, I can't see how being on the list for both would be a negative.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by srvrf

I'm not sure there's a universal strategy that works but a couple things I'd consider are
[LIST][*]Asking about a 5167/1A. They aren't quite as in demand because people love the rubber strap, but it was how I got one (although having a bracelet option is my preference). Then for I think $1500ish I got the strap and clasp for short sleeve weather.[*]I do like the 5164 dial better as I tend to like busier dials (all watches before the 67 were chronographs with multiple subdials), and do travel to different time zones maybe 10 times a year. So I definitely wanted the 64 more than the 67. But as I've owned the 67 I've come to like it more and more. I just think it does so much right - simple, elegant, thin, acurate, and not afraid of a little water. So I do use it for travel and find that with very little thought I simply add or subtract a few hours when I want to know my home time.

Solid advice here Steve. I've asked myself the same questions: is the 64 really worth another $15k at MSRP when I can add and subtract! I use my GMT when traveling, but always know the "hometime" without using the the GMT hand. Old habits, and its one of those things that makes me wonder about the GMT function. Having traveled extensively for years, I genuinely think the simplest GMT is the one in your head or a duo face Reverso--although the Skydweller is a watch I greatly admire and one of the best GMTs in existence today I think.

[golfski]

I think you can say you are interested in more than one variation of the same base reference. If you give them a wishlist that is purely made up of the hottest and most resellable watches, then they might be suspicious.

I gave my AD a list that included 2 Aquanauts on there, a 5968 (my grail aqua) and a 5168g and they ended up allocating a 5168g for me. I asked specifically if this disqualifies me from getting the 5968 (or other references on my list) and he said no, in fact it helps!

What about the 5168g (blue or green)? Same proportions of the 5167 but a little bigger and it has a color dial if that sort of thing interests you. Not sure if they are easier or harder to get than the SS 5167/4...

[WatchLurv]

Best way to check popularity is the % difference between MSRP and grey. Youll soon find out the % difference for RG and SS is significantly different. RG is "easier" to obtain.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

Best way to check popularity is the % difference between MSRP and grey. Youll soon find out the % difference for RG and SS is significantly different. RG is "easier" to obtain.

An excellent point. I loved the heft of the 67 RG when I tried it on last year. I hadn't even thought about this. The 64R is well beyond my budget, but the 67R is not--at MSRP that is.

Food for thought.

[Ichiran]

With an AD relationship, the 64 is easier to get than the 67. With no relationship, both are difficult. All those recent baselworld Aquanaut releases are also very difficult to get with an AD relationship simply because of demand. VIPs love getting those shiny new watches for their IG.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

With an AD relationship, the 64 is easier to get than the 67. With no relationship, both are difficult. All those recent baselworld Aquanaut releases are also very difficult to get with an AD relationship simply because of demand. VIPs love getting those shiny new watches for their IG.

Absolutely, and I don't think the ADs really care if they are flipped. C24 currently shows 22 unworn 5167s in the US. Chase has one unworn with December papers and uncut strap. The buyer must have flipped the sucker straight away!

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

Absolutely, and I don't think the ADs really care if they are flipped. C24 currently shows 22 unworn 5167s in the US. Chase has one unworn with December papers and uncut strap. The buyer must have flipped the sucker straight away!

You can do a simple experiment to ascertain if HSWA or these US ADs care about flippers...

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

You can do a simple experiment to ascertain if HSWA or these US ADs care about flippers...

Which is? 22 is a drop in the bucket in terms of U.S. allocations but it is pretty obvious.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

Which is? 22 is a drop in the bucket in terms of U.S. allocations but it is pretty obvious.

I have pm you. Let's continue there.

[BigAppleBill]

For me, the 5164 was about as close to a personal grail watch as I ever experienced. I wanted this watch for years. At one point I even visited the Geneva boutique and tried on the display version, which only confirmed my initial enthusiasm.

Along the way, I considered the 5167 and had an opportunity to pick one up at a reasonable price. But I held out for the 64. I finally found the right one at the right price last September. Sometimes I see it in my watch box and can’t believe it’s really mine. I’m still at that stage where I baby it way too much. I primarily use it as my travel watch and the Travel Time function is so easy and intuitive. This is one of three watches that I consider permanent pieces in my collection.

My advice is take your time, look around at different pieces, then buy the one that really speaks to you. Don’t rely on my preferences or anyone else’s. In the end, it’s very satisfying to look at your watch box with no regrets or second thoughts. Own and wear what you really like.

Here’s a photo from a winter break trip to Mexico. And yes, it was safe.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by BigAppleBill

For me, the 5164 was about as close to a personal grail watch as I ever experienced. I wanted this watch for years. At one point I even visited the Geneva boutique and tried on the display version, which only confirmed my initial enthusiasm.

Along the way, I considered the 5167 and had an opportunity to pick one up at a reasonable price. But I held out for the 64. I finally found the right one at the right price last September. Sometimes I see it in my watch box and can’t believe it’s really mine. I’m still at that stage where I baby it way too much. I primarily use it as my travel watch and the Travel Time function is so easy and intuitive. This is one of three watches that I consider permanent pieces in my collection.

My advice is take your time, look around at different pieces, then buy the one that really speaks to you. Don’t rely on my preferences or anyone else’s. In the end, it’s very satisfying to look at your watch box with no regrets or second thoughts. Own and wear what you really like.

Here’s a photo from a winter break trip to Mexico. And yes, it was safe.

Thanks Bill. A great story and photo. The 5164 is such an outstanding watch. That being said, I adore the simplicity of the 67. I know that if I am extremely lucky, I may acquire a 64 or 67 this year. I can only afford MSRP for such the 64, which is just as well as there are no bargains to be had these days and may not be for many years to come. Also, as much as I would take a 67, it simply is not worth the grey price of $32k+. For that money, you can get a range of far better pieces from so many other brands.

I was in Geneva several times last year, and tried the 64 and 67 every time. The hook went in far.

[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

Thanks Bill. A great story and photo. The 5164 is such an outstanding watch. That being said, I adore the simplicity of the 67. I know that if I am extremely lucky, I may acquire a 64 or 67 this year. I can only afford MSRP for such the 64, which is just as well as there are no bargains to be had these days and may not be for many years to come. Also, as much as I would take a 67, it simply is not worth the grey price of $32k+. For that money, you can get a range of far better pieces from so many other brands.

I was in Geneva several times last year, and tried the 64 and 67 every time. The hook went in far.

I hear ya. There are more than a few outstanding watches in that price range. Have you checked out FP Journe? I think there’s a lot of value in their watches, especially on the grey market. Though the CB is my personal fav, I’d like to add one or two more someday. Anyway, best if luck on the 5167!

[subtona]

Sounds like you would prefer the 5164. It’s often more expensive to settle.

[cascavel]

I went with the strategy used by srvrf, above, that is, asking for a 5167/1a ONLY. When I asked my AD for a 5167a he gave me a sad look but when I told him I wanted the bracelet he smiled and asked if I was willing to wait a year. Sure enough, 18 months later I had my 5167/1a. Granted, this started two years ago and things have only gotten worse but it worked then.
And I love the bracelet and would't bother spending the money for a rubber strap.