Conned in Cologne

[hussainsha]

Hi Guys

My first post, feels a little daunting , I have had a dilemma which has been on going for just under a year. and I keep putting myself off to take action and end up burying my head in the sand. Last. June I visited a dealer in cologne to purchase a Royal Oak jumbo 15202st for 33k euro, I was told it was a 2019 model and purchased by a customer who didn't want it as it felt to small on his wrist.

First visit I made was to have a look and put down a deposit, this. was my first time. purchasing a AP watch, I put down a 3k euro deposit via debit card and when I. got back to London made arrangements for the remainder to be. transferred via bank transfer. On my second visit I collected the watch and returned to London the same day. The next morning I woke up in excitement to register the watch for the extra 3 years warranty and the website would not recognise the warranty number, i had this rotten feeling something didnt feel right, I mentioned this. to the. dealer via WhatsApp he. reassured me saying nothing to worry about its already been registered. I decided to visit. the AP Boutique in London and they end up confirming I was sold a 2016 model with a fake warranty card, I informed the dealer and he acted like he was shocked and asked if I can have. this in writing. AP Harrods sent me a email confirming the case and the dealer promised me to sort out the issue by finding me another one with the correct paper work. as weeks went by to months and then he would stop replying until he decided to reply after 3 months and said you can. have your money back I can't source you another one as prices have gone up now to 40k Euros.

I think I have made the story. far too long, my question is what would you do in my shoe

I made a. suggestion to the dealer saying I w ill be fair at least. pay for the certificate of authenticity which costs. £1000.00 which he laughed off

my point is to obtain another one I will. lose out in flight. costs hotel. time etc, is my. watch. worth it without papers. if I am keeping long. term ?

anyone know how German law works for consumers ? should I just leave it and enjoy the watch or. take further action via authourities

I have had the watch checked and the watch is fine, if I can work out how to put picture up I will do of the warranty card and. watch


Thanks

Shaidul

shaidul

[schoolboy]

I would get my money back and call it a lesson learned.

[dauster]

maybe this helps: https://www.evz.de/en/consumer-topic...er-in-germany/

but I would get my money back and call it a day! I am German and we have strict consumer laws but if he offers you the money back what else can you ask for. It's not like any other business would refund me money for travel expenses that may be related to a purchase.

[Mills_]

Originally Posted by dauster

if he offers you the money back what else can you ask for.

It's a bit of a grey area though, isn't it?

My friend had a similar situation buying a vintage Rolex from one of the largest brick-and-mortar sellers in America (who is also an AD for Rolex). Before purchasing, he queried the bracelet because it wasn't as he expected. He was told it was 100% authentic and they stood by it; given their position and status, he accepted this. Over a year later, he has taken it to Rolex for a service and been told the bracelet is non-authentic and, further, parts of the movement are non-authentic. Is "getting his money back" the right outcome when the model has appreciated 20%? He has no ability to re-purchase this same model for the same price. Were it my business, I would have made him whole as I would make OP whole. The mistakes sit with only one party - the seller. But unfortunately this is a different decision for every business and some will not be so noble.

[Token74]

If the watch is fine, it sounds to me like you got it at a decent price and you’re stressing over nothing. Sure, something may go wrong and you end up with a repair bill, but it should be anything serious given it’s age, and that can happen ten years down the line.

Unless I’m missing something, chill out and enjoy the watch.


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[Mills_]

OP, your options are slim. Accepting a refund means losing out because you can't purchase what you were after in the first place for the same price (and besides you would be better off just selling this watch yourself given the price appreciation). I would attempt to ask for a partial refund (perhaps a few hundred Euros since 1000 seems to have been laughed off), regardless of that response "accept the L", and leave a full and frank review in as many public places as possible.

[GB-man]

I would probably keep the watch but reiterate you expect a new COA at his cost. If he laughs just let him know you'll be sharing this experience with everyone who will listen. He would be a fool to not cover the 1k and make this go away.

[AshAP]

I’m guessing you dealt with Alex at Harrods? If he’s told you that the watch is fine then you have nothing to worry about imo, especially if you don’t plan to sell it. It’s very kind of him to check the watch for you given that you bought it from a grey dealer in a different country, Hopefully it’s given you peace of mind. The price that you paid is above retail but less than secondary. If you get a refund then unless you have a relationship with AP and they’ll supply you with a 15202 at retail then you’re going to be worse off replacing the watch at current market value.


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[Andrew NYC]

Assuming you are satisfied with the condition, operation and authenticity of the watch then keeping it isn't a bad option as getting a 15202 in today's market is no easy feat (especially at the price you paid). I would be most concerned with the "fake warranty card". I could see if two authentic cards for the same model watch got mixed up however when a fake card enters into the equation I start to get suspicious with regard to what else might be wrong. There's another thread on this forum where a purchaser validated the authenticity of his AP with a retailer and then later found out that the watch was a knockoff. While I would think that having it authenticated locally in London would be sufficient you can't be too sure these days based on other stories we're hearing.

If you are convinced everything but the warranty card in on the up and up then while not ideal, I would put the box and card away and enjoy one of APs best references.

Please post some pictures once you are able.

[AK797]

He mislead and mis-sold you, now either he makes that right in a way that is acceptable to you like the Cert or a discount, or you get a refund and move on, principles are far more important than a mere watch.

[scooba]

Originally Posted by AK797

He mislead and mis-sold you, now either he makes that right in a way that is acceptable to you like the Cert or a discount, or you get a refund and move on, principles are far more important than a mere watch.

x2

[Playinwittime]

If this had occurred in the U.S., GB or other common law countries, I would certainly consider vindicating contract law and make the A.D. produce the watch or pay your damages as the difference to get a comparable model elsewhere. However, I don't know anything about German law and would otherwise default to getting my coin back and start looking elsewhere.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Playinwittime

If this had occurred in the U.S., GB or other common law countries, I would certainly consider vindicating contract law and make the A.D. produce the watch or pay your damages as the difference to get a comparable model elsewhere. However, I don't know anything about German law and would otherwise default to getting my coin back and start looking elsewhere.

It‘s the same here, but what the law says and getting that means hiring an attorney and pay him and court fees in advance. You‘ll get fees back, if you win the case and only then.

Seems to me that the seller is trying to force you to return the watch for a refund because he can sell it for more right on the spot.

Your only leverage is

A. giving him negative reviews
B. Report him with the authorities for potential fraud
C. Pull him to court

[superdog]

Bite the bullet and get your own certificate.

Based on what you paid, you still make out quite well.

[fullofboats]

It’d be stupid to get a refund at Eur33k. This watch sells for 10% above that now. The seller would gladly take it back at the price he sold to you at.

Try to get him to pay for the extract. Your leverage here is kicking up a fuss to mess with his reputation. In fact, I’m surprised you haven’t shared who you bought from already - I certainly would never buy from this seller.

[Andad]

You have to balance principle with principal.

Are you happy with the outcome?

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by directioneng

You have to balance principle with principal.

I love this line!

[wear4l]

Originally Posted by directioneng

You have to balance principle with principal.

Are you happy with the outcome?

This line

[sgwatchguy]

If you can put aside these memories, and you will enjoy what is a good watch, then keep it. Get the COA on your dime. Make sure people know what to expect from this dealer.

If you’ll never get over it, give it back, get a refund and pay more for a new piece. Peace of mind is worth something.

[Watchflair]

What solution has the seller offered? Have they offered any concession for misrepresentation of the piece? Reality is the watch is a 2019 would not need service for some time but being a 2016 will require the expense of a service sooner.

Ultimately you got a good deal for the piece regardless of the year - now it's just about the seller making it right with a concession.

[gretch6364]

What would be the net out of pocket for him to pay the 1K to get the cert, then sell it and find a 2018 version?

[hussainsha]

Updated - photos

[asingzon]

Originally Posted by hussainsha

Updated - photos

Do you have better / clearer photos of the movement?


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[hussainsha]

pic of the warranty card

[jumpmandk]

Fakes came quick on this model..

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by jumpmandk

Fakes came quick on this model..

This isn’t a fake

[Andad]

Do you have a better pix?

[hussainsha]

Another pic of the back case


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[fullofboats]

OP, the I serial would’ve been an immediate dead giveaway that this wasn’t a 2019 model

100% the seller knew this. Please reveal the sellers name if you don’t end up being compensated

[hussainsha]

My lack of inexperience, I gathered after my stupidity

The warranty card doesn’t help much either

I wil give the shop a chance one more time
To rectify the issue

What year is i


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