Broken balance wheel? Is this really common?

[whatching]

Curios because my offshore stopped the other day, brought it to a local tech, just to see if something minor just had to be fixed. Got it done in less than 5mins. Been running well until now.

Then I get a text from them that my balance wheel is broken and it has to be replaced, cleaning or general service cannot fix it - also quoting me much higher than apsc general servicing would charge!

I find the broken balance wheel opinion odd. As far as I know these seldom break, if any, some re alignment or cleaning should be fixes to this. If I’m wrong please correct.

If anyone has encountered or been diagnosed with broken balance wheels (wherein only option is to change to a new one) kindly chime in.

Thanks all.


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[P2725TMB]

I've not heard of this, but others more knowledgeable might indeed chime in.

However, I'd strongly recommend taking it to APSC, I wouldn't let any independent work on it - particularly if they are actually more expensive! In my experience APSC are extremely good.

[whatching]

Originally Posted by P2725TMB

I've not heard of this, but others more knowledgeable might indeed chime in.

However, I'd strongly recommend taking it to APSC, I wouldn't let any independent work on it - particularly if they are actually more expensive! In my experience APSC are extremely good.

Ofcourse ofcourse - apsc is still top priority. I just had a feeling that this was one of those situations that might have needed minor tweaks (apart from being out of warranty already) to get it running again. If the local tech didn’t get to do the job then it would’ve gone straight to AP

Yes, hope others who have experience on this chime in. Out of curiosity and for more knowledge down the line as well.


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[Fat_ninja]

Lol. Was this brand new? And a 44 Offshore? I ended up returning mine when it broke on day 1

[whatching]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Lol. Was this brand new? And a 44 Offshore? I ended up returning mine when it broke on day 1

42. Used. What happened to yours?

Basically I just wanna know whether the local tech is trying to pull one on me (quoting approx 2,100usd, which is much higher than APSC) or broken balance wheels really/commonly happen. And the only way to fix this is to change the whole thing.

Taking into consideration that it is still running well as of now, after the local tech did whatever tweak that was.


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[fullofboats]

Take it into APSC. They can give you a quote

[whatching]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

Take it into APSC. They can give you a quote

I know. Just to clarify, subject of my post is whether or not others have experienced or diagnosed broken balance wheels and how they went about it. Thanks though.


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[77T]

Bent staffs are common problems when they occur organically. Usually due to a large jolt exerted during wear, or a drop to a hard surface.

Buggered hairsprings come a close second from hamhanded fingering by a less qualified watchmaker trying to adjust the balance.

The brand doesn’t matter as much as the treatment the watch has experienced.


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[whatching]

Originally Posted by 77T

Bent staffs are common problems when they occur organically. Usually due to a large jolt exerted during wear, or a drop to a hard surface.

Buggered hairsprings come a close second from hamhanded fingering by a less qualified watchmaker trying to adjust the balance.

The brand doesn’t matter as much as the treatment the watch has experienced.


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I will take note of this. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.


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[PJ S]

Balance wheels themselves don’t break, but there can be associated issues related to the staff and pivots.
Not sure how a non-APSC watch repairer is going to fix either of those without access to genuine AP parts. Could they make (have made) a new staff – sure… but to what tolerance compared with the original’s pivots?
As it’s been looked at already, and is running okay, then I’m puzzled at the diagnosis and suggested remedy. Hard to say if they’re trying to put their hand in your pocket for more than is absolutely necessary, but on the face of it, and with a certain amount of skepticism, it does look that way.
Experience is one thing, but requires a full strip down for a visual inspection, which certainly didn’t take place in the space of 5, or even 15 minutes.
In the timeframe stated, there’s actually very little they could’ve done, never mind undoing all the bolts in order to remove the movement from the case, looking at it, then putting it back together, along with a test to ensure it was watertight again.

You will gain far more by letting APSC assess it, and diagnosing what, if any, issue there may be with the balance wheel and associated componentry, as anything here will just be conjecture until a full diagnosis is carried out on the movement.
So forget about understanding a possible incorrect remedy, and either monitor it for the time being to see how it performs or get it off to APSC without delay.

[whatching]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Balance wheels themselves don’t break, but there can be associated issues related to the staff and pivots.
Not sure how a non-APSC watch repairer is going to fix either of those without access to genuine AP parts. Could they make (have made) a new staff – sure… but to what tolerance compared with the original’s pivots?
As it’s been looked at already, and is running okay, then I’m puzzled at the diagnosis and suggested remedy. Hard to say if they’re trying to put their hand in your pocket for more than is absolutely necessary, but on the face of it, and with a certain amount of skepticism, it does look that way.
Experience is one thing, but requires a full strip down for a visual inspection, which certainly didn’t take place in the space of 5, or even 15 minutes.
In the timeframe stated, there’s actually very little they could’ve done, never mind undoing all the bolts in order to remove the movement from the case, looking at it, then putting it back together, along with a test to ensure it was watertight again.

You will gain far more by letting APSC assess it, and diagnosing what, if any, issue there may be with the balance wheel and associated componentry, as anything here will just be conjecture until a full diagnosis is carried out on the movement.
So forget about understanding a possible incorrect remedy, and either monitor it for the time being to see how it performs or get it off to APSC without delay.

Well said. Yes I will monitor for the meantime.

I remember he commented the balance wheel was running shaky. Not an expert so i don’t know how this translates.

Thank you very much. Appreciate it.


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[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by whatching

I remember he commented the balance wheel was running shaky. Not an expert so i don’t know how this translates.

When the balance is broken, the balance wheel will wobble.
Generally it will not run at all at this point.

Before watches had the incabloc shock protection this was quite common.

[whatching]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

When the balance is broken, the balance wheel will wobble.

Generally it will not run at all at this point.



Before watches had the incabloc shock protection this was quite common.

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated! Well so far it’s running (pretty ok in fact). Still find the diagnosis kinda odd/weird. Add to the fact that it wasn’t a full strip down or not even halfway through it.


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[whatching]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

When the balance is broken, the balance wheel will wobble.

Generally it will not run at all at this point.



Before watches had the incabloc shock protection this was quite common.

Sorry - can a wobbly balance wheel lead to further damage on other parts? Or mainly affects timing?

Also, is a wobbly balance wheel is automatically considered a ‘broken balance wheel’ (as per what was quoted to me)?


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[PJ S]

Again, I reiterate that their diagnosis is on shaky ground if your timeframe is correct.
If, and it’s a big if, the balance wheel is “wobbly”, then it’s probably the pivot(s) that have failed, which typically only happens as a result of a rather hard knock – on the presumption that the pivot wasn’t running in a dry jewel.
If it was, then it’s wear from friction, and in that case, the balance wheel will be replaced by AP.
Assuming neither a knock nor dry running was involved, then I’d be puzzled as to what caused the pivot to fail, if that is the correct diagnosis, which I’m not convinced is the case.
As Milgauss88 says, when a balance wheel has an issue, especially something broken, then the watch generally doesn’t run.

Just out of sheer curiosity, and not to suggest you’re a bit stupid, but when it stopped, did you actually unscrew the crown and give it a number of turns, just to make sure the mainspring still had enough torque in it?
I’m surmising that if it’s running well, that in the timeframe mentioned, all they’ve done is wind it, and tap it against the heel of their thumb, to jolt a gear into position again.

Like I said, monitor it – wind it fully by hand, leave it off and see if you get the full power reserve, and see how much it deviates from the correct time whilst worn and overnight.
If it all looks good, then I‘d forget the whole thing, and just continue to enjoy using it until it happens again or shows other signs of it being time to get it serviced.

[whatching]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Again, I reiterate that their diagnosis is on shaky ground if your timeframe is correct.
If, and it’s a big if, the balance wheel is “wobbly”, then it’s probably the pivot(s) that have failed, which typically only happens as a result of a rather hard knock – on the presumption that the pivot wasn’t running in a dry jewel.
If it was, then it’s wear from friction, and in that case, the balance wheel will be replaced by AP.
Assuming neither a knock nor dry running was involved, then I’d be puzzled as to what caused the pivot to fail, if that is the correct diagnosis, which I’m not convinced is the case.
As Milgauss88 says, when a balance wheel has an issue, especially something broken, then the watch generally doesn’t run.

Just out of sheer curiosity, and not to suggest you’re a bit stupid, but when it stopped, did you actually unscrew the crown and give it a number of turns, just to make sure the mainspring still had enough torque in it?
I’m surmising that if it’s running well, that in the timeframe mentioned, all they’ve done is wind it, and tap it against the heel of their thumb, to jolt a gear into position again.

Like I said, monitor it – wind it fully by hand, leave it off and see if you get the full power reserve, and see how much it deviates from the correct time whilst worn and overnight.
If it all looks good, then I‘d forget the whole thing, and just continue to enjoy using it until it happens again or shows other signs of it being time to get it serviced.

Hey man, appreciate taking your time on this!

1. Yes, I’m 100% certain it took less than 5 mins (or 5 minutes MAX) for the tech to make it work again. Removed caseback, checked out balance wheel, did something to make it run again (I really wasn’t looking at that point), told and showed me it was shaky/wobbly after he made it run (I didn’t really care at this point as I was more relieved it was working again), sealed the case and that was it.

2. Noted on the pivot/s vis-à-vis hard knock or dry jewel (sorry I am not that technically sound when it comes to things like these).

3. The same week it stopped I remember entering a restaurant and it hit the door (impact I can say was kinda hard as the door was coming into the watch, but not hard enough to produce any aesthetic damage). I don’t know if this could’ve been the cause of the stoppage after reading all the info in this thread.

4. Yes I did. As soon as I noticed the time was wrong, I readjusted the the time, did the power reserve turns and still it wasn’t working. Tried the chronograph but didn’t work as well. Put it overnight in the winder (in hopes that it would suddenly work in the morning too).

5. Yes I assume best thing to do is just wait, monitor and see. Just really dumbfounded with their final diagnosis re broken balance wheel (with no other options) plus the horrible quotation. Which is why I had to ask here.

Again, thank you very much. Seems like everything I needed to know has been covered. Appreciate everybody’s inputs and taking time for this.


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