Tiffany and Co on the dial

[Rexplorer214270]

Is having the co-brand on the dial worth the added premium?

[Old Geezer]

For a watch I'm going to wear, I would not want a co-brand on the face so to me its not worth a premium and actually wouldn't consider such a piece. Maybe in a collector's world or vintage the co-branded watches are sought after but I don't know. Someone will come along soon with a better perspective.

[mykii]

It's just a prestige thing, and possibly collectibility. Listed prices don't reflect true demand or market prices, if they don't sell at their exorbitant mark-ups.

Personally, don't think it is worth it.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

Is having the co-brand on the dial worth the added premium?

I’d only do it if I got box and papers and bought from a reliable source. And I’d prefer serpico dial.


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[OrangeKenny]

Tiffany & Co means more to my wife than Rolex, so she’d value a Tiffany dial for sure.
The Comex subs are a different matter.
Very subjective, but obviously enough people do value them.

[cerendigit]

"worth" is subjective.

For most people paying thousands of dollars for a watch is not worth.

[77T]

Not a big multiplier of value. Especially if the watch doesn’t come with provenance. You’d need a full set plus the matching Tiffany store receipts.



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[Macnavara]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

Is having the co-brand on the dial worth the added premium?

....for me only on a gmt

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

Is having the co-brand on the dial worth the added premium?

I think many on this thread are interpreting your question in a normative sense, or how they (as users) feel about said dials. Like most collectors, they probably wouldn't shell out the extra $$$ for one and that's fair.

Objectively speaking, though, the market likes co-signed dials; looking at auction realization prices from the big houses (Phillips, Christies, Heritage, Bonhams, etc.) the data suggests "yes," people are very much willing to pay astronomically high prices for Tiffany-signed dials- and even more, Cartier-signed dials. And this isn't new: collectors have been after them for quite a while.

As the stakes and standards get astronomically high, though, so do requirements (provenance). Cartier dials are among the most counterfeited Rolex dials out there, and I can't imagine Tiffany & Co is that much behind. I'd guess a Tiffany-signed Paul Newman dial isn't going to get full potential without its box, papers, and most importantly, receipt from the Tiffany store it was purchased from.

[faimag]

Yes, for some who are willing to pay it.

[nda]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

Is having the co-brand on the dial worth the added premium?

To a collector - it is. But for the intrinsic value of the object - no, of course not. It's just some words.

So it will depend why you were buying it.

If you collect anything, there will always be the 'rare' version of something - whether that be a vintage Gillette razor, a pen, a car or a watch. Something that sets it apart from... supply and demand then makes that object more valuable.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

Is having the co-brand on the dial worth the added premium?

Back in the 1960s a few OPs and DJs had coca-cola on dial in gold and SS they were official Rolex watches and documented at Rolex HQ.Now when Rolex first started in the early 1915/1920S into the early 1930S only about 1 in every five leaving the factory had the Rolex name on the dial.The rest was blank for the various retailers to put there own name on dial.But when the Rolex oyster was born all oyster cased watches had the Rolex name on dial.For then for the European Asia market and when Rolex first entered the Canadian USA market,instead of the Rolex oyster the name Turtle timer was on dial,by the request of the then retailers Zell Brothers as this was the only way that Rolex could get a foot hold in the USA. So if things had not changed Rolex USA could have been all wearing Turtle Timers.

And other Co-brand watches like the D/ Pizza 5500 sells for around the $2000 and the 1400 perhaps up to $2500 $3000.They were given to the managers for high sales etc there is a ladies one as well.But they have never been all that collectable,D/ Pizza considered by some as a bit down market but its still a Rolex watch but now prices are rising. And Coca Cola throughout the 60S and 70S had quite a few models like the 6085 14k & 18k watches with Coca Cola on dial.Believe the last dials to bare a name other than Rolex was Cartier and Tiffany.But with Tiffany dial watches without the correct providence from Rolex its just a name on the dial, as today there are many fake Tiffany dials around.


Today its somewhat ironic that after around 90 years of some different retailers' names on many Rolex dials. The only one that was left was a company who do did not ever sell watches,and that's Comex.Now the rarest Rolex co-branded watches could be the Tiffany and Co, or Cartier dialled 16520 Daytona from the late 1980s into early 1990s.Its funny how something other than the Rolex name makes it very very expensive and desirable to collectors.But in today's Rolex market for every genuine one, there are quite a few faked ones and the only real way to check is direct with Rolex.Now there were a few black dialled S, N, T and W serial Daytona's Tiffany and Co, or Cartier dialled 16520 ,which had a manufacturing defect. The colour of the sub-dials faded to brown or like a chocolate colour,very similar to the defect from the late 1980s early 1990s that turned the TT Blue Subs dial more of a purple blue colour.Now today some are asking silly money for these watch and now very desirable to many collectors.But for myself not my cup of tea at all, would much rather any of the very early Chronographs, Rolex Subs or GMT watches.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by padi56

Back in the 1960s a few OPs and DJs had coca-cola on dial in gold and SS they were official Rolex watches and documented at Rolex HQ.Now when Rolex first started in the early 1915/1920S into the early 1930S only about 1 in every five leaving the factory had the Rolex name on the dial.The rest was blank for the various retailers to put there own name on dial.But when the Rolex oyster was born all oyster cased watches had the Rolex name on dial.For then for the European Asia market and when Rolex first entered the Canadian USA market,instead of the Rolex oyster the name Turtle timer was on dial,by the request of the then retailers Zell Brothers as this was the only way that Rolex could get a foot hold in the USA. So if things had not changed Rolex USA could have been all wearing Turtle Timers.

And other Co-brand watches like the D/ Pizza 5500 sells for around the $2000 and the 1400 perhaps up to $2500 $3000.They were given to the managers for high sales etc there is a ladies one as well.But they have never been all that collectable,D/ Pizza considered by some as a bit down market but its still a Rolex watch but now prices are rising. And Coca Cola throughout the 60S and 70S had quite a few models like the 6085 14k & 18k watches with Coca Cola on dial.Believe the last dials to bare a name other than Rolex was Cartier and Tiffany.But with Tiffany dial watches without the correct providence from Rolex its just a name on the dial, as today there are many fake Tiffany dials around.


Today its somewhat ironic that after around 90 years of some different retailers' names on many Rolex dials. The only one that was left was a company who do did not ever sell watches,and that's Comex.Now the rarest Rolex co-branded watches could be the Tiffany and Co, or Cartier dialled 16520 Daytona from the late 1980s into early 1990s.Its funny how something other than the Rolex name makes it very very expensive and desirable to collectors.But in today's Rolex market for every genuine one, there are quite a few faked ones and the only real way to check is direct with Rolex.Now there were a few black dialled S, N, T and W serial Daytona's Tiffany and Co, or Cartier dialled 16520 ,which had a manufacturing defect. The colour of the sub-dials faded to brown or like a chocolate colour,very similar to the defect from the late 1980s early 1990s that turned the TT Blue Subs dial more of a purple blue colour.Now today some are asking silly money for these watch and now very desirable to many collectors.But for myself not my cup of tea at all, would much rather any of the very early Chronographs, Rolex Subs or GMT watches.

I didn’t realize that there were Cartier dialed Rolex. Thanks for sharing this with us Peter

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by padi56

Back in the 1960s a few OPs and DJs had coca-cola on dial in gold and SS they were official Rolex watches and documented at Rolex HQ.Now when Rolex first started in the early 1915/1920S into the early 1930S only about 1 in every five leaving the factory had the Rolex name on the dial.The rest was blank for the various retailers to put there own name on dial.But when the Rolex oyster was born all oyster cased watches had the Rolex name on dial.For then for the European Asia market and when Rolex first entered the Canadian USA market,instead of the Rolex oyster the name Turtle timer was on dial,by the request of the then retailers Zell Brothers as this was the only way that Rolex could get a foot hold in the USA. So if things had not changed Rolex USA could have been all wearing Turtle Timers.

And other Co-brand watches like the D/ Pizza 5500 sells for around the $2000 and the 1400 perhaps up to $2500 $3000.They were given to the managers for high sales etc there is a ladies one as well.But they have never been all that collectable,D/ Pizza considered by some as a bit down market but its still a Rolex watch but now prices are rising. And Coca Cola throughout the 60S and 70S had quite a few models like the 6085 14k & 18k watches with Coca Cola on dial.Believe the last dials to bare a name other than Rolex was Cartier and Tiffany.But with Tiffany dial watches without the correct providence from Rolex its just a name on the dial, as today there are many fake Tiffany dials around.


Today its somewhat ironic that after around 90 years of some different retailers' names on many Rolex dials. The only one that was left was a company who do did not ever sell watches,and that's Comex.Now the rarest Rolex co-branded watches could be the Tiffany and Co, or Cartier dialled 16520 Daytona from the late 1980s into early 1990s.Its funny how something other than the Rolex name makes it very very expensive and desirable to collectors.But in today's Rolex market for every genuine one, there are quite a few faked ones and the only real way to check is direct with Rolex.Now there were a few black dialled S, N, T and W serial Daytona's Tiffany and Co, or Cartier dialled 16520 ,which had a manufacturing defect. The colour of the sub-dials faded to brown or like a chocolate colour,very similar to the defect from the late 1980s early 1990s that turned the TT Blue Subs dial more of a purple blue colour.Now today some are asking silly money for these watch and now very desirable to many collectors.But for myself not my cup of tea at all, would much rather any of the very early Chronographs, Rolex Subs or GMT watches.

Very informative as usual, thank you Padi

[joli160]

No provenance like papers and receipt it is to be considered fake.

The con artists keep producing them because a fool and his money ...

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by padi56

Back in the 1960s a few OPs and DJs had coca-cola on dial in gold and SS they were official Rolex watches and documented at Rolex HQ.Now when Rolex first started in the early 1915/1920S into the early 1930S only about 1 in every five leaving the factory had the Rolex name on the dial.The rest was blank for the various retailers to put there own name on dial.But when the Rolex oyster was born all oyster cased watches had the Rolex name on dial.For then for the European Asia market and when Rolex first entered the Canadian USA market,instead of the Rolex oyster the name Turtle timer was on dial,by the request of the then retailers Zell Brothers as this was the only way that Rolex could get a foot hold in the USA. So if things had not changed Rolex USA could have been all wearing Turtle Timers.

And other Co-brand watches like the D/ Pizza 5500 sells for around the $2000 and the 1400 perhaps up to $2500 $3000.They were given to the managers for high sales etc there is a ladies one as well.But they have never been all that collectable,D/ Pizza considered by some as a bit down market but its still a Rolex watch but now prices are rising. And Coca Cola throughout the 60S and 70S had quite a few models like the 6085 14k & 18k watches with Coca Cola on dial.Believe the last dials to bare a name other than Rolex was Cartier and Tiffany.But with Tiffany dial watches without the correct providence from Rolex its just a name on the dial, as today there are many fake Tiffany dials around.


Today its somewhat ironic that after around 90 years of some different retailers' names on many Rolex dials. The only one that was left was a company who do did not ever sell watches,and that's Comex.Now the rarest Rolex co-branded watches could be the Tiffany and Co, or Cartier dialled 16520 Daytona from the late 1980s into early 1990s.Its funny how something other than the Rolex name makes it very very expensive and desirable to collectors.But in today's Rolex market for every genuine one, there are quite a few faked ones and the only real way to check is direct with Rolex.Now there were a few black dialled S, N, T and W serial Daytona's Tiffany and Co, or Cartier dialled 16520 ,which had a manufacturing defect. The colour of the sub-dials faded to brown or like a chocolate colour,very similar to the defect from the late 1980s early 1990s that turned the TT Blue Subs dial more of a purple blue colour.Now today some are asking silly money for these watch and now very desirable to many collectors.But for myself not my cup of tea at all, would much rather any of the very early Chronographs, Rolex Subs or GMT watches.

Wow, thanks for sharing Peter.

This and also the thread by @powerfunk Rob on Co-signed dials and and to me it’s fascinating how many co-signed versions they did early in their history and that Rolex was one of a dozen or more brand names that HW tried out.

Cheers



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[1665fan]

Probably more fakes than legit ones....no Tiffany papers=not worth more

[Simon_jrees]

I wouldn't personally have anything else on the dial. Too much dodgyness about, aside from the fact that I think it ruins the watch having another brand on the dial (this is just me though)

[padi56]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I didn’t realize that there were Cartier dialed Rolex. Thanks for sharing this with us Peter

Yes but not many around perhaps a hundred or so, and today not hyped like say the flat four font 16610LV with possible thousand plus around.

[Nikrnic]

Hard pass for me. I wouldn't want a woman (or man) designer's name on my watch, even if it were less money.

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[TimeLord2]

@Padi56 great information. I have a Tiffany dial GMT from around 1973 given to me by my Dad who purchased it new. He did not keep the paper work. Do they sell for higher than a standard version? Yes they do, and I have seen estimates of 1.2 - 3.8 times the value of one without. No paper work means no way to absolutely prove the sale but still there is provenance. I would never sell given my Dad gave it to me but just because there is no paper work does not mean it's not real. These co-branded watches are sold at auction all the time, without the paperwork, but after being somehow authenticated by the auction house or independent third party. Still risky business, especially for people on this forum who know their vintage watches.

I have 3 kids with two in college this year. The watch is not high on my priorities at this point. that said, I would like to have it serviced and have explored various avenues to confirm authenticity. Went to Tiffany where it was purchased. Nope. Records only for 15 years. I had it serviced in 1985 and again in 1990 by the RSC that used to be on Bundy Drive in Santa Monica. No mention of the Tiffany stamp because at that time they didn't give a crap. I recently had it "authenticated" through Rolex as that was the only way they might sell me parts (bezel ring, insert). They took 4 weeks gave me an estimate for service which did not include any notes regarding the Tiffany stamp. I asked. They said they were aware of it but they just don't do descriptions. They will service it but insist on replacing the gold bezel ring, which is non-functional and want to put the correct insert on which should be the half and half gold and brown, not all brown like on mine. Aside from that they pointed out numerous defects but will service the watch. What do you think that proves?

On another note, it will be going to LAWW when the time comes in the next few months. In the meantime, here is a screen shot I kept of a recent auction at Sotheby's of a very similar watch to my own, which sold for $25K. Also no papers. So you tell me. Do these watches sell for more with a Tiffany stamp? In the end, all it proves is there are some who will purchase without papers, although the WIS her on TRF are very knowledgeable so have good reason to be skeptical. Those without said knowledge maybe not so much. Here are three pics. One of the Sotheby's watch, one of my watch, and one of my Dad wearing it in the late 70s. I am honestly not sure why I even posted this response now that I have finished writing it. Hope that helps OP.