Really? Are you actually paying these gray market prices?

[BillA]

Just as the title says, looks like gray prices and resales on forum member pieces are higher. Asking over $8K for an Explorer (214270) with a msrp of $6550. Just one example. Are you really paying these numbers for a mass produced, SS watch? I just don’t think these pieces are that hard to get. If you go to a few AD’s put your name on a list for an Explorer, you will get one in a few months.

[brandrea]

I suppose it depends on the AD.

I can see why those with the means just prefer to buy now and receive the watch in a day or two vs. waiting.

I’m patient so I only buy gray if it’s a reference that my AD doesn’t carry

[harvey]

They are fishing, hoping some caught up in the frenzy, bite!

[rtalk]

To each their own. People don’t want to wait and I also think some people don’t trust ADs.

Plus if you are really wealthy, what does it matter.


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[didikwahyu]

If it's cheaper than AD ....why not

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[macrowatch]

Are people really paying or Tesla stock at these prices?

For those that bought 10 or even 100 shares of tesla a year ago, and don’t want to wait, why wouldn’t they pay these relatively small premiums relative to their investment gains as a reward or milestone to themselves?

I agree the secondary price are crazy, but some people are beneficiaries in other asset bubbles and cash out and celebrate.

[Podmornica]

BillA, I was with you regarding this one even before the March 2020. However, what I realized is that the prices on grey market are going up with each passing month.

It's disgusting considering the shape of economy and job losses, but that's the way it is with Rolex.

I am on the fence myself actually and will hold until May 2021 to see if anything will change considering the availability and economy in general. If it doesn't, I think I will pull the trigger and buy what I want on the grey market without playing games with my AD.

All you can hear are the stories that now people have even more money to spend on watches than before the pandemic as they were sitting at home and didn't spend on holiday journey and other stuff. You can hear as well that ppl who lost jobs were not the Rolex buyers anyway, so they are not influencing the prices on grey market.

If these current grey prices survive the Winter of 2020 and Spring of 2021 intact, I don't think we will be seeing them go lower ever again, especially considering the inflation. Hardly anything that goes up with Rolex is returning to previous values ..

[MRPWRPATX21]

Originally Posted by Podmornica

BillA, I was with you regarding this one even before the March 2020. However, what I realized is that the prices on grey market are going up with each passing month.

It's disgusting considering the shape of economy and job losses, but that's the way it is with Rolex.

I am on the fence myself actually and will hold until May 2021 to see if anything will change considering the availability and economy in general. If it doesn't, I think I will pull the trigger and buy what I want on the grey market without playing games with my AD.

All you can hear are the stories that now people have even more money to spend on watches than before the pandemic as they were sitting at home and didn't spend on holiday journey and other stuff. You can hear as well that ppl who lost jobs were not the Rolex buyers anyway, so they are not influencing the prices on grey market.

If these current grey prices survive the Winter of 2020 and Spring of 2021 intact, I don't think we will be seeing them go lower ever again, especially considering the inflation. Hardly anything that goes up with Rolex is returning to previous values ..

I don't quite understand why rising market-based prices in the closest example to a truly capitalistic society is "disgusting" in any way. The "economy" doing poorly relative to its immediate past is not necessarily indicative of falling prices across the board; especially when it comes to 100% pure luxury goods. Moreover, the market is not truly efficient if it's not discounting the future, so for prices to not be falling off a cliff it might also imply that the players in the market do not foresee the current downturn as either a long-term issue or so severe that it affects the full spectrum of consumers with the same degree of severity (or both). Market prices are set based on the market, and if someone next to you is willing to bid $5k more than you for the same watch, that's just what the price for that watch is...can't be upset about it in any way.

[Podmornica]

Originally Posted by MRPWRPATX21

I don't quite understand why rising market-based prices in the closest example to a truly capitalistic society is "disgusting" in any way. The "economy" doing poorly relative to its immediate past is not necessarily indicative of falling prices across the board; especially when it comes to 100% pure luxury goods. Moreover, the market is not truly efficient if it's not discounting the future, so for prices to not be falling off a cliff it might also imply that the players in the market do not foresee the current downturn as either a long-term issue or so severe that it affects the full spectrum of consumers with the same degree of severity (or both). Market prices are set based on the market, and if someone next to you is willing to bid $5k more than you for the same watch, that's just what the price for that watch is...can't be upset about it in any way.

Disgusting in terms that luxury items are getting more expensive while average family is living harder and harder and closing their businesses permanently. Delinquency rates are getting higher lately..

I perfectly understand It's capitalism at it's finest though considering the prices ..

[offrdmania]

The prices keep going up because people are paying these ridiculous prices.

[neilm92]

I completely agree. I find myself attracted to some variety of watches recently, TAG Heuer being my latest weird infatuation. I can't fathom why, like you say, a SS mass produced, technically average watch, can ask such a price. It all comes back to the brand recognition I guess. Rolex is now(probably more for the past 10 years), a statement piece rather than a tool. To each their own of course, but for me, I think the only new Rolex I ever buy, will be an old Rolex.

[77T]

Some asking prices are 50% higher than MSRP and moving briskly. Our avocation has moved up the scale - but callouts make little sense here.

What would a Bonfire of the Vanities serve?


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[BillA]

Originally Posted by 77T

Some asking prices are 50% higher than MSRP and moving briskly. Our avocation has moved up the scale - but callouts make little sense here.

What would a Bonfire of the Vanities serve?


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Paul,
Not are some 50% higher, some are 100% over msrp!
I think there are also some other things going on here under the heading of human nature.
1. We become a “ Now” world. When we want something, we want it Now. No longer can we wait, but we really can have it tomorrow. Sites like Amazon feed into this. Order it today, and many items can be delivered tomorrow. In fact in some cities, you can get same day delivery!
2. “What you can have you don’t want, and what you cannot have, you want”. If all SS Rolex Professional pieces were sitting in the AD’s display, we would not demand them. I remember a few years ago walking into my local AD and they always had an Expl II, Explorer, Hulk in the display. Those times have changed. The AD could not give away the Hulk, then. Now a different story.

[Robf52]

Originally Posted by BillA

Paul,
Not are some 50% higher, some are 100% over msrp!
I think there are also some other things going on here under the heading of human nature.
1. We become a “ Now” world. When we want something, we want it Now. No longer can we wait, but we really can have it tomorrow. Sites like Amazon feed into this. Order it today, and many items can be delivered tomorrow. In fact in some cities, you can get same day delivery!
2. “What you can have you don’t want, and what you cannot have, you want”. If all SS Rolex Professional pieces were sitting in the AD’s display, we would not demand them. I remember a few years ago walking into my local AD and they always had an Expl II, Explorer, Hulk in the display. Those times have changed. The AD could not give away the Hulk, then. Now a different story.

Well said. It is the world we live in.

[1William]

As this topic continues to march forward despite the evidence present at hand I ask, why not? I keep up with the market and routinely buy from our Trusted Sellers at the best fair market price I can get at the time. I purchased all three SS Sky-Dwellers above retail and can make thousands off the sale should I decide that is the direction I want to go. I have a Hulk, new Pepsi, a Daytona-C in SS, a DSSD JC new style and two Explorer II's all purchased from our Trusted Sellers. At any point I want to trade or sale I will get fair market value from them. I refuse to play the AD game, wait and then still not get the watch I want. I have always had the attitude that I will buy what I want, when I want it and get the best price I can get. The problem is not with the Grey Market nor the AD's. It is Rolex and the minute they decide to stop the silliness they can. But they won't, so on and on we go.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by 1William

As this topic continues to march forward despite the evidence present at hand I ask, why not? I keep up with the market and routinely buy from our Trusted Sellers at the best fair market price I can get at the time. I purchased all three SS Sky-Dwellers above retail and can make thousands off the sale should I decide that is the direction I want to go. I have a Hulk, new Pepsi, a Daytona-C in SS, a DSSD JC new style and two Explorer II's all purchased from our Trusted Sellers. At any point I want to trade or sale I will get fair market value from them. I refuse to play the AD game, wait and then still not get the watch I want. I have always had the attitude that I will buy what I want, when I want it and get the best price I can get. The problem is not with the Grey Market nor the AD's. It is Rolex and the minute they decide to stop the silliness they can. But they won't, so on and on we go.

You have quite a nice and envious collection. Some of us who like the brand don’t have excess monies to burn. You seem successful and paying continually over msrp is not a problem for you and your life style. Congratulations.

[Rolexatlast]

Originally Posted by 1William

As this topic continues to march forward despite the evidence present at hand I ask, why not? I keep up with the market and routinely buy from our Trusted Sellers at the best fair market price I can get at the time. I purchased all three SS Sky-Dwellers above retail and can make thousands off the sale should I decide that is the direction I want to go. I have a Hulk, new Pepsi, a Daytona-C in SS, a DSSD JC new style and two Explorer II's all purchased from our Trusted Sellers. At any point I want to trade or sale I will get fair market value from them. I refuse to play the AD game, wait and then still not get the watch I want. I have always had the attitude that I will buy what I want, when I want it and get the best price I can get. The problem is not with the Grey Market nor the AD's. It is Rolex and the minute they decide to stop the silliness they can. But they won't, so on and on we go.

Hmmm, are you an end user or grey dealer?

“...routinely buy...”

Why would an end owner routinely buy Rolex watches? They are not consumables.

So presumably, you are a dealer of some kind. But how do you make a profit if you are buying at market prices? So do you get a discount?

So, are you for real? That you routinely buy at the advertised prices from greys? Or are you hyping the market?

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by Rolexatlast

Hmmm, are you an end user or grey dealer?

“...routinely buy...”

Why would an end owner routinely buy Rolex watches? They are not consumables.

So presumably, you are a dealer of some kind. But how do you make a profit if you are buying at market prices? So do you get a discount?

So, are you for real? That you routinely buy at the advertised prices from greys? Or are you hyping the market?

I think it's possible (albeit expensive) to look at buying 'routinely' from grays as a way to enjoy many watches on a 'lease' with the cost being the spread you end up losing sending the watch back to them. I would normally abhor the cost of this as a way to enjoy the hobby, but in the current environment I'd rather be out a 2k to have experienced the watch in person instead of 10k being stuck with a watch I ended up not liking because I had to buy the watch sight unseen.

On the flip side of course, great time to have a pre-existing and long standing relationship with AD's to get everything you want at retail.

[supernova]

If the price reaches an amount then obviously there are people paying the prices that is moving it up. That’s how a free market moves.

Nothing wrong with it either, some like to acquire the piece they really want regardless of prices and grey dealers will try make as much money to feed their families.


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[Tanuki]

Rolex fanatics and flippers just keep upping the prices in a crazy game just between the two groups. They keep churning prices in a frenzy when the watches are already way overpriced.

Reminds me of the last housing bubble when everyone kept saying get in now or you will be out priced and never be able to own a house. We all know how that turned out. Even Rolex knows it won’t last and is keeping a level head. Why do you think they are not asking 25k for a SS Daytona.

Read the above posts. The justifications given sound just like those who paid a million dollars for a $500,000 house a few years ago. The prices are unsustainable and there will be a correction and those holding the bag when it happens will take the hit.

Be cautious my friends!!!

[77T]

Well, I can’t make a value judgement since I am an Amazon Prime member and if I wanted to waste $$$ on overpriced models, I could.

I don’t choose to, though.

Those who do pay the high prices from secondary marketeers have the means so that’s a choice they make in a free market.


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[Dyim]

FOMO.

The newer generation doesn’t need, or want to wait for anything. Everything is what you want, and when you want it.

When I was young, I have to get up to the TV to change the channel.

Now, it is all on your phone with a finger swipe. Everything on demand! Right now!

[Where]

Originally Posted by Dyim

FOMO.

The newer generation doesn’t need, or want to wait for anything. Everything is what you want, and when you want it.

When I was young, I have to get up to the TV to change the channel.

Now, it is all on your phone with a finger swipe. Everything on demand! Right now!

In some markets, there is no other option but to pay Grey Market prices. ADs simply say they're not taking any EOI for popular steel models, unless your're willing to spend $$$ on crap you don't want.

[joli160]

Compare vintage against their original MSRP

Lots of people have enough money to buy what and when they want, a service provided by grey sellers.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by joli160

Lots of people have enough money to buy what and when they want, a service provided by grey sellers.

I have no problem paying a premium for a watch that is hard to get, but calling this a "service" is stretching things a bit. Where do you think they get these watches to sell? Some magical separate inventory not available to the masses? Any watch sold by a grey dealer could have alternatively been sold to an end-customer to begin with. It's a process being fueled by greed and flippers, and they are the only people benefitting.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by BillA

Just as the title says, looks like gray prices and resales on forum member pieces are higher. Asking over $8K for an Explorer (214270) with a msrp of $6550. Just one example. Are you really paying these numbers for a mass produced, SS watch? I just don’t think these pieces are that hard to get. If you go to a few AD’s put your name on a list for an Explorer, you will get one in a few months.

To some people this type of money isn't an issue, so "paying" as an obstacle is a moot point. It's their money, $8k is a lot to you but to them it's peanuts.

Also, every market is different, some places it's actually quite difficult to find any ss Rolex, even a Milgauss. Consider yourself fortunate, and have some empathy for those that live in difficult markets, where even a mass produced Explorer is hard to get. All Rolex are mass produced, that's not relevant in the Rolex world. A Daytona is mass produced, try to find one.

I'm of the mindset that what ever people pay is their personal choice, who cares and it isn't polite to ask someone how much they paid for something unless maybe it's an intimate friend or family. There are people that have Apple watches and G-Shocks that are dumb founded that we would spend thousands of any kind on a watch period. To those that got their watch at whatever price, huge congrats.

[watchdisplay]

I wouldn’t pay the price you mentioned for the explorer 1 ref however, I do pay grey market prices and have been for the past two years or so.

I don’t understand why people get fixated on the “retail price.” Yes mass produced watches... hard to get... well that’s subjective. The market price is the market price! If I pay over retail for a Daytona and ensure that it’s slightly below market I can wear the watch as long as I’d like and most likely still make money on it.

I have yet to loose money on a stainless steel sports rolex model that I paid over retail for. It also is about when you want something. If I want to spend thousands of dollars on an item I want it yesterday not wait for someone to give me a call.


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[ZeGerman11]

To some people, the value of owning and wearing the watch right now is worth more than the extra $500-$1000 on the gray market.

An Exp listed for $8k seems high until you factor in taxes (varies by location) and likely negotiating with the dealer. In Chicago, that $6550 msrp jumps up to $7100 real quick. On top of that, I’d assume you can get $250-$500 off the Exp (all my gray purchases have been reduced by at least $500 from asking price and they’ve all been in the ballpark of the #’s we’re discussing here). Now you’re talking a difference of about ~$500.

That’s a lot more palatable to people than what initially looks like a $1,500 differential. You go into your AD and they give you the runaround, and you leave with nothing set in stone, or you pay +$500 and the watch arrives at your door in a day or two.

It’s not always attributable to FOMO or instant gratification. Sometimes people just make the best decision they can with the information available.

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by ZeGerman11

To some people, the value of owning and wearing the watch right now is worth more than the extra $500-$1000 on the gray market.

If an Exp is listed for $8k, that seems high until you factor in taxes (varies by location) and likely negotiating with the dealer. In Chicago, that $6550 msrp jumps up to $7100 real quick. On top of that, I’d assume you can get $250-$500 off on the Exp (all my gray purchases have been reduced by at least $500 from asking price and they’ve all been in the ballpark of the #’s we’re discussing here). Now you’re talking a difference of about ~$500.

That’s a lot more palatable to people than what initially looks like a $1,500 differential. You go into your AD and they give you the runaround, and you leave with nothing set in stone, or you pay +$500 and the watch arrives at your door in a day or two.

It’s not always attributable to FOMO or instant gratification or whatever the other poster said. Sometimes people just make the best decision they can with the information available.

Umm. You are only looking at a couple of watches. The watches most people want are going for $5k-$15k over retail and not just $500 to $1000.

[ZeGerman11]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

Umm. You are only looking at a couple of watches. The watches most people want are going for $5k-$15k over retail and not just $500 to $1000.

Huh? I’m responding to the specific example cited in this thread.

That doesn’t change the spirit of my post, though. To many, $5-15k is a rounding error in relation to their net worth.