Inaccurate descriptions - HQ Milton

[Undefeatable]

So to begin, I have no vendetta against HQ Milton. I go on the website semi regularly to check out some really interesting vintage Rolex's, and their selection is some of the best I've seen.

Having said that, their descriptions vs actual condition of the watches are sometimes outright lies. This example is just one of a few that I have seen from them.

I clicked on this watch because it looked interesting, and take a look at the screenshots of the case back and their description of the case.

"Excellent case"...really?

Granted, they provide a picture so that you can see the pitting, but not all of their listings have the picture with the removed case back. I personally wouldn't trust a watch from them now unless the pictures include the case back off picture.




Here's the link to the listing: https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...ner-1680-A3281

[Nikrnic]

I've never bought from them yet but I'm always lurking for an older Sub or Tudor and check them out weekly. That's not cool at all and for their prices and reputation they need to be more candid and forthright with their description after their inspections.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Dan S]

I agree it would have been appropriate to mention the serious pitting.

[AJMarcus]

Why even sell a watch with that pitting. It’s poor quality frankly.

[Dr.Smellody]

Originally Posted by AJMarcus

Why even sell a watch with that pitting. It’s poor quality frankly.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I feel.theynare referencing the over appearance and condition with the caeback on.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Dr.Smellody

I feel they are referencing the over appearance and condition with the caeback on.

This. Condition is fully disclosed in the photos.

[snarkq]

They literally showed the pics in high definition. You think anyone spending that money isn't reviewing the photos?

I've bought from them (i think I was working with Jacek at the time) and he actually took the time to remind me of a spot on the dial that was originally unnoticed and sent additional pictures before confirming the purchase... I would definitely buy from them again.

[shaunylw]

The majority of their watches have case back off pics. But I agree, this case is bad. It looks bad enough that the watch might have a hard time sealing.

[996marty]

Some serious pitting but by adding the photo they are hardly trying to deceive,surely anyone looking to buy would check out all photos

[Dan S]

I think that if any one of us was selling this watch, we would absolutely have mentioned the pitting in our description of the watch, since it's quite serious. Yes, photos are shown, and I'm not saying that there is anything dishonest about the listing. But it would have been better to mention it explicitly, and unlike the typical dealer where sneaky behavior is expected, HQM has an excellent reputation to maintain. I really appreciate when they point out subtle flaws, such as hand-drag, etc., since that type of transparency engenders trust. I suspect they just listed the watch quickly, used boilerplate language, and simply neglected to add those details. Just my personal feelings about this.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I suspect they just listed the watch quickly, used boilerplate language, and simply neglected to add those details.

Agree. These are not the bad guys.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Agree. These are not the bad guys.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Just an oversight. As far as I know, they have a good reputation. I don’t fault them for neglecting to proofread a particular listing. The photos clearly show the condition of the case.

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

I was thinking the exact same thing. Just an oversight. As far as I know, they have a good reputation. I don’t fault them for neglecting to proofread a particular listing. The photos clearly show the condition of the case.

Oversight? Proofread? You are way too kind. Dealers can’t make “oversights“. It’s called misrepresentation in the business world. Or worse.

[Old Expat Beast]

Saying "excellent case" could suggest to the uneducated buyer that such pitting is normal.

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Saying "excellent case" could suggest to the uneducated buyer that such pitting is normal.

I agree.

No way is an “excellent case” with pitting. Period.

If that were on eBay this forum would be on fire.

[Hub6152]

How about a 1675 that I purchased from a different source but had traced back to them (because my source had used some of their photos to advertise it) that had a later sapphire type bezel insert that was super glued on to the bezel that simply would not rotate because of that. I guess that just slipped through as the occasional unlucky ones just do because they surely couldn’t have checked it at all.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by Hub6152

How about a 1675 that I purchased from a different source but had traced back to them (because my source had used some of their photos to advertise it) that had a later sapphire type bezel insert that was super glued on to the bezel that simply would not rotate because of that. I guess that just slipped through as the occasional unlucky ones just do because they surely couldn’t have checked it at all.

This could have been done after HQ Milton sold the watch.....this is just pure conjecture on your part

Back to the original post in this thread, not sure quite how including in the advert a high-definition picture of the case with the case back removed could be construed as an attempt to misdescribe the watch for sale..... My understanding (although I have never purchased a watch from them) is that HQ Milton have a good reputation that they have built up over many years of hard work. Seems a shame for the OP to go out of their way to damage that reputation......particularly as it would appear that he/she has not actually purchased a watch from them.

[Hub6152]

Originally Posted by Woody

This could have been done after HQ Milton sold the watch.....this is just pure conjecture on your part

Back to the original post in this thread, not sure quite how including in the advert a high-definition picture of the case with the case back removed could be construed as an attempt to misdescribe the watch for sale.....: thinking:My understanding (although I have never purchased a watch from them) is that HQ Milton have a good reputation that they have built up over many years of hard work. Seems a shame for the OP to go out of their way to damage that reputation......particularly as it would appear that he/she has not actually purchased a watch from them.

It wasn’t done after. I traced the original listing on HQM and it was exactly the same. I couldn’t seem to be able to edit my original post on my phone as I realised it was badly worded.

So they either they didn’t bother to inspect it, or it slipped through accidentally or they knew all about it.

[Hub6152]

Originally Posted by Woody

This could have been done after HQ Milton sold the watch.....this is just pure conjecture on your part

Back to the original post in this thread, not sure quite how including in the advert a high-definition picture of the case with the case back removed could be construed as an attempt to misdescribe the watch for sale..... My understanding (although I have never purchased a watch from them) is that HQ Milton have a good reputation that they have built up over many years of hard work. Seems a shame for the OP to go out of their way to damage that reputation......particularly as it would appear that he/she has not actually purchased a watch from them.

I still have the link to their original listing that’s now in their archive. Do you want me to post it here?

[ravenhome777]

What is hand dragging? Is that when the had drags on the dial and leaves a mark? How does that happen anyway? The hand gets bent somehow?

I think the pitting could probably be fixed relatively easily by rolliworks.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ravenhome777

What is hand dragging? Is that when the had drags on the dial and leaves a mark? How does that happen anyway? The hand gets bent somehow?

I think the pitting could probably be fixed relatively easily by rolliworks.

Yes, hand drag marks are semi-circular marks from the hand scraping against the dial, usually during part of the rotation.

I think it can be challenging to repair pitting by laser welding, since the new material may not bond very well. I have asked LAWW in the past, and they were reluctant to attempt it because they felt that the results might not be good. If others have first hand experience with having pitting repaired, I would be very interested to hear about it.

[shinyhappyobjects]

Drew Zimmerman in PA did some excellent work on the edge of a caseback for me one time. Very clean. You can check out his work on IG at zimmermanwatchrepair

Originally Posted by Dan S

Yes, hand drag marks are semi-circular marks from the hand scraping against the dial, usually during part of the rotation.

I think it can be challenging to repair pitting by laser welding, since the new material may not bond very well. I have asked LAWW in the past, and they were reluctant to attempt it because they felt that the results might not be good. If others have first hand experience with having pitting repaired, I would be very interested to hear about it.

[Watchcollectables]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Yes, hand drag marks are semi-circular marks from the hand scraping against the dial, usually during part of the rotation.

I think it can be challenging to repair pitting by laser welding, since the new material may not bond very well. I have asked LAWW in the past, and they were reluctant to attempt it because they felt that the results might not be good. If others have first hand experience with having pitting repaired, I would be very interested to hear about it.

Pitting can be a disaster for welding as the metal under the surface is compromised . It can become very fragile as it is a form of corrosion . So when you weld you bond metal to metal but because the structure of the corroded case is not solid enough you end up just blowing holes deeper into the case . And as it’s impossible to see how deep the corrosion can go it’s really a
Matter of removing all loose material and starting afresh . This could mean loosing a significant percentage of the underside of the case before
You start to weld it correctly !

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by Watchcollectables

Pitting can be a disaster for welding as the metal under the surface is compromised . It can become very fragile as it is a form of corrosion . So when you weld you bond metal to metal but because the structure of the corroded case is not solid enough you end up just blowing holes deeper into the case . And as it’s impossible to see how deep the corrosion can go it’s really a
Matter of removing all loose material and starting afresh . This could mean loosing a significant percentage of the underside of the case before
You start to weld it correctly !

Very well said. Thanks for explaining the real problems with pitting and why it is a serious issue for potential vintage watch buyers. If anyone buys a watch with pitting issues be prepared to buy a replacement case. I once bought a 1965 Omega Seamaster with known “slight“ pitting ( there is no such thing I learned) and had to pick up a new case. A tough way to learn a lesson but relatively inexpensive given the commonality of the watch. Not so much with a Submariner.

[1665fan]

Everything used is now excellent condition....back in the day we had 75%....80%....85%....95% and so on....of course the percentages are subjective but it’s a lot better than every damn watch is excellent lol......that’s what it is now.......that case is garbage....60% max far from excellent lol

[btinl]

It bothers me more when I see a dial described as "excellent" but there are obvious scratches, paint chips, or hand drag.

[1watch]

Always good to use your eyes and own judgement vs accepting descriptions. Check here or with other trusted collectors. All good dealers also allow for an inspection period and make things right if they miss something. There are also ones out there that don’t represent pieces honestly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Haywood_Milton]

For the sake of clarity, HQ Milton has nothing to do with me or any of my companies. I was never certain why they chose the name.

Their reputation, nonetheless, was historically solid --- but haven't some faces changed there recently?

H

[btinl]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

For the sake of clarity, HQ Milton has nothing to do with me or any of my companies. I was never certain why they chose the name.

Their reputation, nonetheless, was historically solid --- but haven't some faces changed there recently?

H

It's named after Scott's children.

[swish77]

HQ Milton is usually very good with its descriptions, and the photos show everything. I think the OP's example is more of an aberration than the norm.

They're not perfect, of course, and I've seen some issues in the past, such as not mentioning service parts or over-stating how "excellent" a watch might be. But in general, HQ is one of the best in the business for the amount of volume it deals with, in my experience anyway.

Also, they have a 5-day, no-questions-asked return policy, so the risk is super low, assuming you do your homework. There are plenty of other dealers out there who deserve to be picked on more.