Snoopy 2020 - is it too expensive?

[Rollieo]

Seems like one major hesitation of the newly released snoopy is that it’s too expensive.

But is it?

- Silver Ag925 dial
- New 3861 co-axial movement
- Ceramic Bezel with Enamel
- Naiad lock case back
- Sapphire crystal and caseback
- And extra complication on the back, with Snoopy floating over earth in 14 seconds and earth making a rotation every minute.

The standard sapphire sandwich is $6,350 on steel bracelet and $6,250 on a leather band. Has a 20 year old movement with an aluminum bezel insert. How much will the updated sapphire sandwich cost? $7500+? Think about all the features they’ve added to this watch, for a delta of $2k?

I love this watch. I was a bit hesitant about the price, but once I saw that case back, game over.


P.s. for speculators and price comparisons - everyone wants to compare it to the 45th anniversary that was $7k as a limited edition. Well we all know that watch is going for $30k+ now. I know it’s gen 2 and gen 3 snoopy, but personally I don’t see these two as comparisons. There’s no way that Omega was going to limited this watch to 1970 watches given the demand the 45h anniversary watch has. And why do that? Let people who want it, have it!

[ree7]

I believe other brands will charge even more for such a caseback.
Personally I think it's just right.
Looks like they're going to stick to +- USD 9600 for most 3861 special models.

[Sandpit]

I think that given the last few "special" releases from Omega, they're trying to elevate the brand with much higher pricing.

Everybody asked the same question about the No Time to Die seamaster and it still sells. Likewise, many eyebrows were raised with the pricing on the Apollo 11 50th speedie - it still sells.

I think this will probably fly off the shelves, but a large factor in that will be the success of the 45th Snoopy release.

[Andad]

Buy a 321?

[capote]

The Bond watch was like 9k also, seems like Omega can get away with those pricing. I’m more curious as to how they are going to play this non-LE. Will they true to form churn out as many as they can, or will they restrict supply by playing the Rolex game?

[alllexandru]

Price is justified having in mind all the details + historical pedigree
Is not for everyone taste yes.
Personally I would like to see it first in AD (if this will ever happen), I like it but not to jump in without a real world look :)

p.s
I would have loved to have he 14 sec on display as the last Snoopy

pps
Also it have been nice to have a solid good steel bracelet with Omega logo only

[mmaggi]

Some may feel that it may be overpriced by $1,000.

But when you factor in all the upgrades (movement, ceramic bezel, silver (AG) dial, caseback, domed sapphire crystal) I think it's priced just right.

The real question will be availability in the next few months. That will tell us if it was priced right.

[1William]

Don't kid yourself, this watch is over priced and will only stay solid in the market as long as Omega limits the numbers in the release. The new Bond watch is an example of how it works. Limit release on a regular production watch and the model stays somewhat solvent in the market. Now AD's are offering 20% discounts according to some of our fellow members who have purchased the watch recently and this will trickle down to the secondary market and the watch will sell for 6-7k which is the true price and value. Omega is playing it's own price game and it is easy to see. No problem with it, just know the game and the rules and you will be fine.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by 1William

Don't kid yourself, this watch is over priced and will only stay solid in the market as long as Omega limits the numbers in the release. The new Bond watch is an example of how it works. Limit release on a regular production watch and the model stays somewhat solvent in the market. Now AD's are offering 20% discounts according to some of our fellow members who have purchased the watch recently and this will trickle down to the secondary market and the watch will sell for 6-7k which is the true price and value. Omega is playing it's own price game and it is easy to see. No problem with it, just know the game and the rules and you will be fine.

I haven’t seen the Bond watch available at any AD or OB yet, but maybe I’m not getting out enough.

Will be interesting to see if Omega will play the game and limit release. I can’t see them producing a 50th anniversary still in 2022. There was about 45 people on the deposit list for my OB before the release yesterday, so I’m guessing that it’ll take at least a year for all the OBs to just work through deposits.

We’re already in October, so only 14 months away from 2022.

But regardless of speculation on future value, with all the technology in this watch. Easily worth $10k to me!


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[The Continental]

Originally Posted by 1William

Don't kid yourself, this watch is over priced and will only stay solid in the market as long as Omega limits the numbers in the release. The new Bond watch is an example of how it works. Limit release on a regular production watch and the model stays somewhat solvent in the market. Now AD's are offering 20% discounts according to some of our fellow members who have purchased the watch recently and this will trickle down to the secondary market and the watch will sell for 6-7k which is the true price and value. Omega is playing it's own price game and it is easy to see. No problem with it, just know the game and the rules and you will be fine.

20% discounts from Omega ADs on "No Time to Die" Bond watch?? Wow.....would love to know which ADs as I'm about to pull the trigger. Gray market prices are at retail or slightly above.

[samson66]

Unfortunately it is probably priced correctly. We have gotten used to getting Omega watches at steep discounts on the secondhand market, so the idea of actually paying $9,600 for a $9,600 Omega is something we are all struggling with. My coaxial Speedmaster moonphase came with a >$10K MSRP. Would I have bought the watch for that price? No way. It may be "worth" the price but I like the idea of saving >40% of sticker by buying used. Not gonna happen with the new Snoopy sadly. I think I'm gonna hold off on this piece...

[Ringhio]

The Snoopy 45 was 7K, 5 years ago.
If Omega released essentially the same watch yesterday it could have been priced fairly around 8.5k.

I would argue that they actually almost did that, but with an important spin:
- the movement is updated
- they added a complication (although it's only an aesthetical one and technically not too challenging to achieve, it's still a complication and makes the reference unique)

Does these factors justify $1100 delta in price? I believe yes.

At this point the main and huge difference is the LE.
Because, let's be honest, if yesterday Omega had announced that they would have made a LE with 2020 pieces, we wouldn't even see one comment about the look of the watch in comparison to the 45, or the "gimmick" back, or Snoopy is a name for kids we like superheroes like Batman to show that we have big balls... (my personal favorite comment )

Now, the bottom line is that, in terms of value of the piece this is a bet on the brand.
If Omega plays it well, there is a good chance that the piece will retain its value (I'm not saying it will grow, because that is a very difficult prediction).
If Omega floods the market with the Snoopy and the flippers flip them, the reference will lose 30% of its value in a couple of years, easily.

Now, the real point is: Is Omega so dumb that they will switch their business model, build a potentially "hot reference", and then go full force in mass production causing depreciation of their own new reference?

We will see in a couple of months what is the trend, and in 1-2 of years if this hypothesis holds.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by Ringhio

The Snoopy 45 was 7K, 5 years ago.
If Omega released essentially the same watch yesterday it could have been priced fairly around 8.5k.

I would argue that they actually almost did that, but with an important spin:
- the movement is updated
- they added a complication (although it's only an aesthetical one and technically not too challenging to achieve, it's still a complication and makes the reference unique)

Does these factors justify $1100 delta in price? I believe yes.

At this point the main and huge difference is the LE.
Because, let's be honest, if yesterday Omega had announced that they would have made a LE with 2020 pieces, we wouldn't even see one comment about the look of the watch in comparison to the 45, or the "gimmick" back, or Snoopy is a name for kids we like superheroes like Batman to show that we have big balls... (my personal favorite comment )

Now, the bottom line is that, in terms of value of the piece this is a bet on the brand.
If Omega plays it well, there is a good chance that the piece will retain its value (I'm not saying it will grow, because that is a very difficult prediction).
If Omega floods the market with the Snoopy and the flippers flip them, the reference will lose 30% of its value in a couple of years, easily.

Now, the real point is: Is Omega so dumb that they will switch their business model, build a potentially "hot reference", and then go full force in mass production causing depreciation of their own new reference?

We will see in a couple of months what is the trend, and in 1-2 of years if this hypothesis holds.

Ringhio spot on.

Omega wants to get back on top. The gap is too far between Omega and Rolex now, but the products that Omega put out are still top notch. Marketing, distribution, control of supply - that’s what Rolex has been doing so well that’s put them ahead of Omega.

Omega lacks control over all its distribution points, there will always be ADs that will say or do what they want. Maybe one AD is on hard times, they want to take deposits to float cash. Come back to you later and convince you to buy something else when they can’t get a snoopy. They can hold your money and play that game for 6 months. Omega can’t tell ADs not to take deposits, not enough control over the ADs to do this. So the idea that an AD said they’ll take your deposit and can get you the watch, or the AD was trying to convince me to put down a deposit. Doesn’t give me the indication they actually will.

On the other hand - I just spoke with an AD (store manager, been there 20 years) today that did the opposite. This AD is at a multi chain store (4 store locations), so decent size. They said interest and demand for Snoopy 50 has been sky high, and because allocation to their store has been unclear, they have not taken a single deposit. They explained to me in the past for another watch they just don’t take deposits on watches they are unsure they can get; since they don’t want to manage the backlash of returning deposits.

This same AD has taken my deposit before on another watch, and I did get that watch in a timely manner. So without getting into what the AD says, to me this is what did the AD do. They didn’t want my deposit, and it’s a multi store chain. I have to say it’s has to be because allocation is going to be tight, or maybe ADs won’t even get allocation at all. Why go through the ADs when they’re having their OBs stop taking deposits?

So far I think Omega is playing the game well, and given they will control supply closely, those that wait a year or two to get this watch, will find it hard to get.

Glad to say I already got my deposit on this watch at an OB back in May, and paid the balance in full yesterday!


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[Skyrider01]

If you compare it to the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary piece, I think the Snoopy is overpriced by $1500 to $2000.

The A11 50th is only $50 more than the Snoopy 50th.
Yet the A11 has a SS bracelet, touches of gold, and is a limited edition.

Although the Snoopy has the animated caseback which the A11 doesn't, I don't think that in itself should bring the price in line with the A11.

[Ringhio]

Originally Posted by Skyrider01

If you compare it to the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary piece, I think the Snoopy is overpriced by $1500 to $2000.

The A11 50th is only $50 more than the Snoopy 50th.
Yet the A11 has a SS bracelet, touches of gold, and is a limited edition.

Although the Snoopy has the animated caseback which the A11 doesn't, I don't think that in itself should bring the price in line with the A11.

I actually like the Snoopy 50th more than the A11. I see your point.
It has the gold (which I don't really like in a sport piece) and the bracelet.

Anyway I think the comparison with the 45 it's fair, both no gold, both no bracelet, both Snoopy!
The Snoopy 50 could have been 9K... maybe. I don't see going lower than that.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by Skyrider01

If you compare it to the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary piece, I think the Snoopy is overpriced by $1500 to $2000.

The A11 50th is only $50 more than the Snoopy 50th.
Yet the A11 has a SS bracelet, touches of gold, and is a limited edition.

Although the Snoopy has the animated caseback which the A11 doesn't, I don't think that in itself should bring the price in line with the A11.

So just comparing from a technology perspective - personally I think the extra complication with the caseback alone its worth an extra $2k.

Then you have the Naiad locking system and the full silver Ag925 dial that’s laser cut.

Apollo 11 only has ss bracelet and touches of gold as you mentioned.

When talking about it being limited edition, that brings in a lot of other factors like desireability, hype, rarity, supply vs demand. Ultimately if the Snoopy 50 has a lot more demand than supply, not sure Apollo 11 being a LE means more than not being able to get a Snoopy 50.


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[mmaggi]

This is what I believe: If you want this watch, you must go to an AD and put a deposit down. If 100,000 people put a deposit down, then Omega will make and deliver 100,000 watches. It's that simple.

This is my opinion. It's not based on any facts. But I truly believe this is what will happen. It may be a less than 100,000 and it may be more than 100,000. Omega is in this to make money. And I don't have their balance sheets, but I'm guessing that 2020 so far hasn't been that great a year for them in terms of sales.

[Ringhio]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

This is what I believe: If you want this watch, you must go to an AD and put a deposit down. If 100,000 people put a deposit down, then Omega will make and deliver 100,000 watches. It's that simple.

This is my opinion. It's not based on any facts. But I truly believe this is what will happen. It may be a less than 100,000 and it may be more than 100,000. Omega is in this to make money. And I don't have their balance sheets, but I'm guessing that 2020 so far hasn't been that great a year for them in terms of sales.

Being actually objective you could say that the mark would be 10.000 pieces in 4-5 years run or more than 10.000. The value Is established by the rate of production, demand and accessibility to the reference.
If you go on 47th st you will see how many “masculine Batman” are available there! Nobody knows how many they are truly producing every year, it’s not a LE, you can get on a list that is not “ 5711 like impossible”, but the reference still hold its value.

I don’t think that Omega wants to cause inflation of this reference.
It would be self distruttive.

[mmaggi]

@Ringhio - Good point about the Batman. However that's a Rolex. This is an Omega.
We'll see where Omega takes this reference. Afterall, Omega reports to Swatch. My guess is they are in it to sell as many watches possible. Again.... just my opinion.

[Ringhio]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

@Ringhio - Good point about the Batman. However that's a Rolex. This is an Omega.
We'll see where Omega takes this reference. Afterall, Omega reports to Swatch. My guess is they are in it to sell as many watches possible. Again.... just my opinion.

Agree.
To stay on the Rolex example, I believe they are for selling as well.
They have two approaches:
They flood the market with DJs.
They make hot SS references more challenging to get (GMT, Subs...) increasing their market value.

I’m convinced Omega is trying to play the same game.
The new snoopy is the perfect example.
We will see in 1-2 years.

(btw I like the watch, I’m already on the list... as I’m on the list for the Batman... so hopefully will have plenty of comic characters soon!)

[Ringhio]

... I mean

[mmaggi]

Originally Posted by Ringhio

(btw I like the watch, I’m already on the list... as I’m on the list for the Batman... so hopefully will have plenty of comic characters soon!)

JEALOUS! Good luck getting the Batman. You'll get the Snoopy soon.

Back to the original discourse: Keep in mind that Rolex does an outstanding job marketing their brand. And that's the #1 reason why it's near to impossible to get the majority of models other than the DJ36 when you walk into an AD.

I visited the Omega Boutique on 5th Ave in April 2019. The sales associate told me in no uncertain terms that Omega is horrible with their marketing to the point where it made her crazy-angry. LOL! She believed that Omega could be every bit as desirable as Rolex if they only knew how to market their product. I couldn't agree more.

As you said, we'll see in a year or 2 where this reference stands.

[Nodzex]

If Breitling and Panerai can put those silly price tags Omega, for sure, can go higher!

[Rrpdc]

Originally Posted by Nodzex

If Breitling and Panerai can put those silly price tags Omega, for sure, can go higher!

Totally agree.

[Ringhio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwWRo8VHDSg

Minute 7:10 ...

[enjoythemusic]

I'd be curious what licensing fees are, as have a feeling that overly increased costs. Fees should be paid, absolutely, yet have the Speedy 50th Buzz Ltd. Ed. and for about the same money I got a better bezel and great bracelet imho plus MANY added bits (cork band, Lunar Lander, patches, etc). My AD asked about Snoopy... I passed.

Yes, the trick back-of-case on Snoopy / planet rotating bits is cool. For maybe $8k is where she should be imho for non-LE on strap. In addition add the bracelet to get closer to asking msrp.

Added: Since Omega is now seemingly doing a higher pricing scheme, it may work if demand supports it... as long as they limit supply.

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

I'd be curious what licensing fees are, as have a feeling that overly increased costs. Fees should be paid, absolutely, yet have the Speedy 50th Buzz Ltd. Ed. and for about the same money I got a better bezel and great bracelet imho plus MANY added bits (cork band, Lunar Lander, patches, etc).

Yes, the trick back-of-case on Snoopy / planet rotating bits is cool. For $6.5k, maybe $7k is where she should be imho.

Given that Omega was awarded the Silver Snoopy award 50 years ago (or whenever the award was given) for their invaluable services during the Apollo 13 mission I’d think licensing would be nil cost.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

Given that Omega was awarded the Silver Snoopy award 50 years ago (or whenever the award was given) for their invaluable services during the Apollo 13 mission I’d think licensing would be nil cost.

Perhaps. It is an impressive timepiece, and the back is fun too. Guess I'm not their target market at that price level for something with Snoopy on it. Then again I have the PAM1118 reserved, so my levels of 'timepiece crazy' has different tastes

PS: Re-watching the video, have AD include a bracelet gratis and call it a day.

[Ringhio]

Lists with full deposits will be closing today for the US market.

They might reopen eventually if people drop out.
But from today the OB can register "interest" in the piece, but cannot put you on the actual list and cannot take a deposit to officially secure a piece.

It seems they will be limiting production to me.
So far i like how they are playing.

[DTNSS]

Originally Posted by Ringhio

Lists with full deposits will be closing today for the US market.

They might reopen eventually if people drop out.
But from today the OB can register "interest" in the piece, but cannot put you on the actual list and cannot take a deposit to officially secure a piece.

It seems they will be limiting production to me.
So far i like how they are playing.

Yes. I had my deposit from before with OB. Today they said only 1000 pieces will come to US 😳