What would you do to revive Panerai?

[woowoo]

Happy Thanksgiving to those celebrating.

Was trying to think of fun interesting discussion and this question came to mind:

What would you do to revive Panerai?

A little more context for those unfamiliar, back in the day, say ~20 years ago, Panerai was such a hot brand: I remember when there were hot new releases, waiting lists, many models almost impossible to get, would sell above retail, used models would hold their value, Panerai were one of the must have watches, there was a buzz about them, you looked cool in them, you felt cool, people noticed you had the hot new thing on your wrist. For lack of better wording, they were cool and popular.

And to a certain extent they still are kinda cool and popular. But nothing like before.

Disclaimer: you might be saying to yourself that you are happy with the current state of the brand, you don't care about any of the above, in fact you may be glad Panerai doesn't have the hype of other luxury brands like Rolex or AP and you prefer there not being hard to get new Panerai models you want to be seen in that everyone wants. Great!!! This thread is not for you.

Just posing this question to maybe generate a fun discussion about what you would do. New models? Advertising idea? Fix the old scandals better? Sizing? Pricing? What would you do to revive Panerai to its former glory?

[JorgeCCW]

Is all about the hype , that’s what’s driving the other brands. Except Rolex, because Rolex has a hype already embedded in our brains for decades.
Imho


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[woowoo]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

Is all about the hype

Yo Jorge, honored you replied to this thread man. You are one of the VIP OG's of TRF. Hope you're doing well.

I guess my question would what could Panerai do to rebuild hype again?

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by woowoo

Yo Jorge, honored you replied to this thread man. You are one of the VIP OG's of TRF. Hope you're doing well.

I guess my question would what could Panerai do to rebuild hype again?

Nothing , can’t be done. Panerai is filling a spot that only they can fill. It might not have retention value but their prices are reasonable so it’s matter less.
In my eyes there is nothing to revive, they could some tweaks here and there to make it better though.


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[pdnb]

Thanks for the post; not clear what they should except make less of each model? Or buy back inventory?

Off the top of my head in no particular order:

1) They went Due route, people complained about WR

2)They went in house and got rid of their dependence on eta, people complained about service costs

3)Because their design is so simple and elegant; unfortunately it is too easy to fake; in house movement and sapphire back is best they can do

4) They went into the exotic materials route; only backfire was composite; but all other materials I would consider successful... of course no issues is better than one

5) The released 38mm luminors and 42mm subs??? I think those subs are pretty popular but was taken aback when I read about a 38mm luminor.

6) 1940 radiomir design is a success and has relativelythinner cases

7) released 70 yr warranties???

8) Treat their loyal Risti’s well by giving them limited editions

In all seriousness, you cannot accuse Panerai for not trying to expand their market.

But probably too many copies of each model? Hard to say without knowing their real numbers. All we know is their resale price is not good at the moment, but is it that much than everyone else except rolex and some niche micro brands?

They prolly did the calculus that says it’s better to build x units (ie 2000) and make sure all the boutiques/ADs have all the models than to let a customer walk out disappointed because the watch wasn’t in stock?


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[pdnb]

Originally Posted by pdnb

Thanks for the post; not clear what they should except make less of each model? Or buy back inventory?

Off the top of my head in no particular order:

1) They went Due route, people complained about WR

2)They went in house and got rid of their dependence on eta, people complained about service costs

3)Because their design is so simple and elegant; unfortunately it is too easy to fake; in house movement and sapphire back is best they can do

4) They went into the exotic materials route; only backfire was composite; but all other materials I would consider successful... of course no issues is better than one

5) The released 38mm luminors and 42mm subs??? I think those subs are pretty popular but was taken aback when I read about a 38mm luminor.

6) 1940 radiomir design is a success and has relativelythinner cases

7) released 70 yr warranties???

8) Treat their loyal Risti’s well by giving them limited editions

In all seriousness, you cannot accuse Panerai for not trying to expand their market.

But probably too many copies of each model? Hard to say without knowing their real numbers. All we know is their resale price is not good at the moment, but is it that much than everyone else except rolex and some niche micro brands?

They prolly did the calculus that says it’s better to build x units (ie 2000) and make sure all the boutiques/ADs have all the models than to let a customer walk out disappointed because the watch wasn’t in stock?


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Just to add to my bias, I have 3 models in the 3XX, so I haven’t considered anything since 2012?


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[woowoo]

Originally Posted by pdnb

1) They went Due route, people complained about WR

3)Because their design is so simple and elegant; unfortunately it is too easy to fake; in house movement and sapphire back is best they can do

5) The released 38mm luminors and 42mm subs???

8) Treat their loyal Risti’s well by giving them limited editions


They prolly did the calculus that says it’s better to build x units (ie 2000) and make sure all the boutiques/ADs have all the models than to let a customer walk out disappointed because the watch wasn’t in stock?

Great reply. Thank you. Agree with much of what you said, in particular the points above.

I think for a dive watch brand, they have made mistakes with not having enough water resistance. The technology is there. 100M should be the minimum, but this is something other brands miss the point on too. People want WR, give it to them.

I think the sizing thing is one of their unique selling points and while they can offer small watches they should keep the large size models.

Do you think Panerai should work on releasing a watch with a totally new fresh design, they are basically 2-3 designs for years now. Think an entirely new watch, like AP's CODE, is worth trying?

I also wonder how much being part of Richemont holds back the brand from trying new things or from encroaching on other brands territory. Panerai isn't what it used to be but they still fit their little niche in Richemonts portfolio and maybe there is pressure not to change that.

[jestrada]

They gotta make it exclusive again; Limit the production runs, streamline the model line up and accept that the design language is probably not for everyone rather than producing new models regularly that try to cater to a mainstream audience; In a sense, literally go back to their early/pre-Vendome roots.

I know that it’s counter intuitive from a business standpoint because as a for-profit enterprise, Richemont ‘s goal is to increase revenues and ultimately grow the bottomline. But in the highly competitive luxury watch market, brands need to think outside the box and go beyond the conventional business model. Unless you are a Rolex, Patek or AP with the iconic models/money makers and pristine provenance to boot, you’d have to think of other ways to be relevant and build your own brand identity. Look no further to what brands like Richard Mille or (to a lesser extent) MB&F have done in the past decade. Moreover, Richemont has a host of other mainstream luxury brands that can drive sales revenue for their total portfolio but few (probably just Lange) that are “equity” drivers.

Panerai has taken a few missteps in the last few years and nothing will take those blemishes out of their rep anytime soon but going back to their roots will be a good first step to repairing their image IMO.

Oh and finally, for people who will frown on Panerai if they prioritize “exclusivity”/lack of availability and not having models below 44mm, they just need to accept that they are not the market for Panerai and move on to other brands.


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[rootbeer7]

These posts about how Panerai have lost their way are ridiculous. I’m sure to Richemont they are doing things right and selling more watches than ever. Smaller watches for Asian and female market, low water-resistance and snap-on cases because these new customers won’t go further than a paddling pool.
Have they lost the core fans of old (maybe a few thousand) probably yes. Are they any less successful, definitely not.
Btw I have a first series dot dial 233 and no interest in their new pieces.

[Cru Jones]

There’s nothing to “revive”. Compared to 20 years ago, they have better movements, better materials, a much wider selection, more availability, better distribution...

What Panerai no longer has is the hype of being “the new thing” and excessively limited quantities produced. Neither of those can change. Also, prices have gotten a bit out of hand. Doubtful that can change.

Have they always made right choices? No, far from it. But, they are trying and are always interesting (and yes sometimes infuriating).

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

There’s nothing to “revive”. Compared to 20 years ago, they have better movements, better materials, a much wider selection, more availability, better distribution...

What Panerai no longer has is the hype of being “the new thing” and excessively limited quantities produced. Neither of those can change. Also, prices have gotten a bit out of hand. Doubtful that can change.

Have they always made right choices? No, far from it. But, they are trying and are always interesting (and yes sometimes infuriating).

This. I love all the focus on new materials within the brand. The only issue I have with the brand right now is pricing, and that is only on some models.

[rajurama]

I wish they stick to in-house movements only and not the generic Richemont calibre. Rest all is fine. Panerai is still on the game and most of us wear it because its still a rare watch in the wild.

[enjoythemusic]

Personally don't see any 'major' downturn', in fact i see the opposite as sales seem quite good. Service / warranty is excellent, and pricing seems in-line so that's not the problem imho.

Agree about limiting production, yet also limit the overall number of models / varients as well. Sometimes too many choices works against a company.

[junamuan]

I succumbed to the hype 15years ago. Bought one but it soon became my least favorite amongst my collection.

But I'd kept it and sold it only 3yrs ago.

I think the market has moved on to smaller diameter watches. And the loyals who bought 20 - 15yrs ago have aged and have different taste.

So I suggest for Panerai to consider releasing smaller size (not chunky) and introduce a different category - away from Marina and Radiomir DNA as I find them passe'.

Unlike OPs, DJ and Subs who are timeless and classic.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by junamuan

I succumbed to the hype 15years ago. Bought one but it soon became my least favorite amongst my collection.

But I'd kept it and sold it only 3yrs ago.

I think the market has moved on to smaller diameter watches. And the loyals who bought 20 - 15yrs ago have aged and have different taste.

So I suggest for Panerai to consider releasing smaller size (not chunky) and introduce a different category - away from Marina and Radiomir DNA as I find them passe'.

Unlike OPs, DJ and Subs who are timeless and classic.

The only reason I still wear Panerai 17 years later is because of their watches that have lots of DNA. They have been making 47mm dive watches for over 80 years. If I want to wear a smaller watch I wear a Rolex. Classic and timeless for Panerai equals big, chunky 47mm watches just like classic and timeless for Rolex are 40/36mm watches.

PS I think they are doing just fine as well!

[turpe]

Originally Posted by HL65

If I want to wear a smaller watch I wear a Rolex. Classic and timeless for Panerai equals big, chunky 47mm watches just like classic and timeless for Rolex are 40/36mm watches.

Nailed it.

For better or worse, Panerai is seen as a purveyor of big, historically-styled dive watches. Either that’s your thing, or it isn’t.

If it is, Panerai’s got you covered - and, if it isn’t, you’re probably going to dismiss Panerai as a brand without ever diving deep enough (pun intended) into the catalog to find a 38mm Luminor Due.

So, what does Panerai need to do? Quit diluting the formula. Accept their identity and lean into it. Panerai doesn’t appeal to everyone, and that’s ok. Anything with universal appeal is, by definition, gonna be a bit bland.

By all means, keep playing around with materials - that keeps things interesting - but don’t lose that ‘Panerai DNA’ in the process.

[emtee]

Originally Posted by turpe

Nailed it.

For better or worse, Panerai is seen as a purveyor of big, historically-styled dive watches. Either that’s your thing, or it isn’t.

If it is, Panerai’s got you covered - and, if it isn’t, you’re probably going to dismiss Panerai as a brand without ever diving deep enough (pun intended) into the catalog to find a 38mm Luminor Due.

So, what does Panerai need to do? Quit diluting the formula. Accept their identity and lean into it. Panerai doesn’t appeal to everyone, and that’s ok. Anything with universal appeal is, by definition, gonna be a bit bland.

By all means, keep playing around with materials - that keeps things interesting - but don’t lose that ‘Panerai DNA’ in the process.

My thoughts exactly

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by turpe

Nailed it.

For better or worse, Panerai is seen as a purveyor of big, historically-styled dive watches. Either that’s your thing, or it isn’t.

If it is, Panerai’s got you covered - and, if it isn’t, you’re probably going to dismiss Panerai as a brand without ever diving deep enough (pun intended) into the catalog to find a 38mm Luminor Due.

So, what does Panerai need to do? Quit diluting the formula. Accept their identity and lean into it. Panerai doesn’t appeal to everyone, and that’s ok. Anything with universal appeal is, by definition, gonna be a bit bland.

By all means, keep playing around with materials - that keeps things interesting - but don’t lose that ‘Panerai DNA’ in the process.

I see it the other way around. Old school ‘Ristis’ complaining about the Due line and the smaller pieces and not the core big stuff the majority aren’t buying on mass. It’s these smaller pieces that clearly are selling.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

There’s nothing to “revive”. Compared to 20 years ago, they have better movements, better materials, a much wider selection, more availability, better distribution...

What Panerai no longer has is the hype of being “the new thing” and excessively limited quantities produced. Neither of those can change. Also, prices have gotten a bit out of hand. Doubtful that can change.

Have they always made right choices? No, far from it. But, they are trying and are always interesting (and yes sometimes infuriating).

Originally Posted by HL65

The only reason I still wear Panerai 17 years later is because of their watches that have lots of DNA. They have been making 47mm dive watches for over 80 years. If I want to wear a smaller watch I wear a Rolex. Classic and timeless for Panerai equals big, chunky 47mm watches just like classic and timeless for Rolex are 40/36mm watches.

PS I think they are doing just fine as well!

Can’t add anything to what these guys said

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by HL65

The only reason I still wear Panerai 17 years later is because of their watches that have lots of DNA. They have been making 47mm dive watches for over 80 years. If I want to wear a smaller watch I wear a Rolex. Classic and timeless for Panerai equals big, chunky 47mm watches just like classic and timeless for Rolex are 40/36mm watches.

PS I think they are doing just fine as well!

This is worth reposting IMHO ...

Couldn’t agree more with Ken in this line of thinking

[sokoloka]

Stop putting the date on most of their models.

[djyolky]

I just bought my first Panerai, a 1312 with in house movement. I'm really enjoying it but one thing I can't wrap my head around is the noise of the movement. Why is it so audible and why did they let that happen?

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[turpe]

Originally Posted by djyolky

I'm really enjoying it but one thing I can't wrap my head around is the noise of the movement. Why is it so audible and why did they let that happen?

Honestly, and this just just anecdotal evidence, every one of the watches I’ve ever owned that was loud in this way had a sapphire caseback, so it may be that.

I had a Patek 5066 a few years ago, and that thing sounded like a mosquito every time the rotor moved. So loud that the first couple of times it happened I actually thought it was a mosquito buzzing me.

[djyolky]

Originally Posted by turpe

Honestly, and this just just anecdotal evidence, every one of the watches I’ve ever owned that was loud in this way had a sapphire caseback, so it may be that.

I had a Patek 5066 a few years ago, and that thing sounded like a mosquito every time the rotor moved. So loud that the first couple of times it happened I actually thought it was a mosquito buzzing me.

Interesting. This is my first display case back so I didn't know that! It's not a big deal, but it's very noticeable.

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[emtee]

Originally Posted by turpe

Honestly, and this just just anecdotal evidence, every one of the watches I’ve ever owned that was loud in this way had a sapphire caseback, so it may be that.

I had a Patek 5066 a few years ago, and that thing sounded like a mosquito every time the rotor moved. So loud that the first couple of times it happened I actually thought it was a mosquito buzzing me.

I heard it could be to do with the rotor being on ball bearings? A few people said the same about the new Rolex movements. My 392 was the same and I did not like it but now all my PAM’s are manual so no longer an issue.

[Pballkm21]

I strongly believe that people of a certain generation (millennial) love the "hype" of something hard to get. I can walk into a watch store and find a completely full case of the range of Panerai watches. I believe this is to the detriment in comparison to other brands.

[turpe]

Originally Posted by Pballkm21

I strongly believe that people of a certain generation (millennial) love the "hype" of something hard to get.

I don’t know that it’s really millennials there, bud - it’s probably more of a Gen. X (of which I am a part) thing.

After all, it was us that popularized decrying our favorite bands for ‘selling out’ because they finally saw some commercial success, and it was us that rebelled against the conspicuous consumption of the 80s - not by trying to consume less (heaven forbid!), but by trying to prove ourselves connoisseurs by obtaining the hard-to-find expensive stuff. ‘I’m not just rich, I’m also discerning.’

Also, to be fair, nothing is truly hard to get in this day & age.

If I wanted a Panerai 6152 with the original Rolex movement, I could have one on my doorstep by the middle of next week, as long as I’ve got $140k burning a hole in my pocket.

Paul Newman 6263? On my wrist in a few days, as long as I don’t mind paying whatever ‘Price On Request’ ends up being.

5711? That’ll be $80k, please. Also with me before next weekend.

Hard to afford, on the other hand, is becoming all-too-common, thanks to the (perceived or real) scarcity of the ‘hot items’ of the day, and a secondary market full of speculators looking to monetize that scarcity.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

[fsprow]

I have always concentrated in Rolex, Patek and AP but during the virus took a bite of Panerai. Big and has a powerful unique look. I love it, keeps great time and makes me smile when I look at it. I could become a real fan!

[utc66]

Panerai with Platinum cases! Big and heavy. One thing always bothered me was gold Panerai should have gold movements not standard steel movements.

I predict a re-interest in the Pre-vendors and especially the Slytech. If I had extra cash I’d be buying all the Slytech I could get my hands on for investment purpose.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by utc66

Panerai with Platinum cases! Big and heavy. One thing always bothered me was gold Panerai should have gold movements not standard steel movements.

I predict a re-interest in the Pre-vendors and especially the Slytech. If I had extra cash I’d be buying all the Slytech I could get my hands on for investment purpose.

Oh no the word ‘investment’ and watches again.