The Challenge: Choosing a Patek AD to work with. How does one choose?

[daOnlyBG]

Hello all.

If you were scoping out several Patek Philippe authorized dealers to choose one that you'd buy from to build your collection- what type of Patek AD would you look for? Any "green flags" as well as "red ones"? Anything you'd ask the AD during your first meet?

See, with Rolex, if one AD wears you out... you can just move onto the next one. From what I understand, Patek Philippe is a little different- you don't want to switch ADs unless you really have to, as I understand the manufacturer keeps a closer eye on who buys what, where.

So, I want to be sure I'm going my diligence before choosing one Patek dealership.

Thanks in advance!

[Moondoggy]

To be honest, I doubt any of them will give you any air time at all, unless you are ready to shred your wallet like a whale.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

To be honest, I doubt any of them will give you any air time at all, unless you are ready to shred your wallet like a whale.

I've scheduled an appointment with one shop this weekend. I'm wondering what I should ask, look for, etc.

I don't plan on buying just one or two pieces- and I'm not in a rush, either. Just looking for a tell-tale sign of an honest retailer.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

I've scheduled an appointment with one shop this weekend. I'm wondering what I should ask, look for, etc.

I don't plan on buying just one or two pieces- and I'm not in a rush, either. Just looking for a tell-tale sign of an honest retailer.

Maybe share what pieces you are looking for ?!?

[azizu]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

I've scheduled an appointment with one shop this weekend. I'm wondering what I should ask, look for, etc.
I don't plan on buying just one or two pieces- and I'm not in a rush

i can tell you what not to ask
don't ask about a nautilus or aquanut. ADs get annoyed with the amount of people walking in to ask about that.
dress for the occasion, don't go in a suit but also don't go in shorts and flipflops. I respect the SAs, so if i am there to look around i let people who are their to make a purchase ahead of me (and the SA appreciate that) and when the place is not busy the SAs will take the time to answer your questions and explain things to you as well.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by Trainedmonkey

My strategy was pretty simple.

- Family owned dealer
- Always deal with the owner or immediate family

You don't want to be building a relationship with a sales representative that will suddenly leave one day.

Then buy everything for the same dealer and have them service your watches. Yes it takes money and time, but if you are serious that's the way.

I didn't think to deal with the owner/immediate family. Once the time comes to make that first purchase, I will absolutely take that advice. Thanks

Originally Posted by azizu

i can tell you what not to ask
don't ask about a nautilus or aquanut. ADs get annoyed with the amount of people walking in to ask about that.
dress for the occasion, don't go in a suit but also don't go in shorts and flipflops. I respect the SAs, so if i am there to look around i let people who are their to make a purchase ahead of me (and the SA appreciate that) and when the place is not busy the SAs will take the time to answer your questions and explain things to you as well.

100%. I did not ask for the Nautilus in my meeting today, and tbh, I don't really gel with the Aquanaut. I'd like to think the SA appreciated being able to pitch the brand on his own terms without someone like myself coming in with a narrow focus on 1-2 models.

[Mrngrz46]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Hello all.

If you were scoping out several Patek Philippe authorized dealers to choose one that you'd buy from to build your collection- what type of Patek AD would you look for? Any "green flags" as well as "red ones"? Anything you'd ask the AD during your first meet?

See, with Rolex, if one AD wears you out... you can just move onto the next one. From what I understand, Patek Philippe is a little different- you don't want to switch ADs unless you really have to, as I understand the manufacturer keeps a closer eye on who buys what, where.

So, I want to be sure I'm going my diligence before choosing one Patek dealership.

Thanks in advance!

I can give you some advice:

1) if you are really passionate and have knowledge about Patek then that is the one and the only emotion you need to transfer. If you know 0 about then maybe get informed first.
2) remember that body language anticipate and verify your words. SA at that level could read it.
3) prepare anyhow your wallet. It will suffer

Coming to the red and green flags:
1) I visited 2 AD here and after 1 minute I could exclude one already. I noticed how they looked at me and to what they pay attention like dress code etc. Generally a red flag. In this case if you Lamborghini customer style then you have chance.

2) The other one literally welcoming like I would expect. Doesn’t matter that in terms of wallet compared to the average Swiss or Arabic or Russian customer they serve I’m close to 0.
Their main interest was why I want exactly Patek, if I know the brand story, the movement and why that watch.
Green flag indeed they provide me some key pieces in reasonable time.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Mrngrz46

Sorry man but looks like you are preparing a job interview.

Strange approach.

If you are really passionate about Patek then that is the one and the only emotion you need to transfer.

There is no a code written and it extremely depends by the SA will welcome you but as I said real passion never lie.

+1
Show passion about the brand and talk watches. You will either be rewarded with the same passion and that is your AD or you won’t and move on.

[Billfav]

Originally Posted by Mrngrz46

I can give you some advice:

1) if you are really passionate and have knowledge about Patek then that is the one and the only emotion you need to transfer. If you know 0 about then maybe get informed first.
2) remember that body language anticipate and verify your words. SA at that level could read it.
3) prepare anyhow your wallet. It will suffer

Their main interest was why I want exactly Patek, if I know the brand story, the movement and why that watch.

I believe your passion for the brand will speak volumes. It has for me as I was a customer of my AD for years and they knew I was a watch nut. It has served me well once I decided to reach for my first PP. I am sure my past business helped but I was not one of their high rollers in terms of spend either.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by Mrngrz46

I can give you some advice:

1) if you are really passionate and have knowledge about Patek then that is the one and the only emotion you need to transfer. If you know 0 about then maybe get informed first.
2) remember that body language anticipate and verify your words. SA at that level could read it.
3) prepare anyhow your wallet. It will suffer

Coming to the red and green flags:
1) I visited 2 AD here and after 1 minute I could exclude one already. I noticed how they looked at me and to what they pay attention like dress code etc. Generally a red flag. In this case if you Lamborghini customer style then you have chance.

2) The other one literally welcoming like I would expect. Doesn’t matter that in terms of wallet compared to the average Swiss or Arabic or Russian customer they serve I’m close to 0.
Their main interest was why I want exactly Patek, if I know the brand story, the movement and why that watch.
Green flag indeed they provide me some key pieces in reasonable time.

Thank you!

The one AD I visited today was particularly warm and generous with their time. They explained to me Patek Philippe's basic history, and briefly described their relationship with Swiss company. I did not make any specific requests, but I did tell them that I would stop by once again in the next month or two. They look forward to seeing me again, and vice versa.

Needless to say, you are correct about the wallet hurting.

[jfriedkin]

I don't think you can go wrong with an AD. Patek has TOO much at stake to have AD that ignore their customers that just walk through the door. The fact the you have ZERO knowledge is the very best thing you have going for you. Let them educate you on what to buy (their best interest, not yours), ALL ADs want to build a relationship with new buyers. Call an AD, make an appointment. If I were you, I would look at everything they have in the showcase. Those are the models you will be able to buy. Try them All on. Ask a lot of questions and get educated.

[David001]

Originally Posted by jfriedkin

I don't think you can go wrong with an AD. Patek has TOO much at stake to have AD that ignore their customers that just walk through the door. The fact the you have ZERO knowledge is the very best thing you have going for you. Let them educate you on what to buy (their best interest, not yours), ALL ADs want to build a relationship with new buyers. Call an AD, make an appointment. If I were you, I would look at everything they have in the showcase. Those are the models you will be able to buy. Try them All on. Ask a lot of questions and get educated.

Absolutely this ^

If you walk in like a know-it-all they'll tire of you quickly, but go in with what you know and be willing to be educated. If you love watches then that will come across when you look at a piece you like.

I think ADs are probably tired of people coming in waffling away like they're best mates with TS and trying to smarm their way into a hot watch.

[HMHM]

Generally my first impression of an AD is honesty. I appreciate if they can say something as it is or provide a reasonable counter offer. Waitlist kind of thing is generally nonsense I feel. It’s either they want your business or not. I appreciate being told a NO than being jerk around with a non-existence wait list. At least I can figure out how to approach the situation instead of waiting for something that never arrives.

[2nastie]

I mean generally people pick the one from their city and usually it's the only one in town.

Or if there is no local one then a place where you might visit most often.

I won't tend to be picky unless that AD rubs you the wrong way. No guarantee that each and every experience at a particular AD is good. I'll focus on the kind of watches you want first. It seems like you are going to through buying the entire catalogue and need to screen where you money should go... if you were, then it really doesn't matter cause AD would judge you based on your wallet anyways and provide top notch service at that point.

[ap1]

None of this matters, no supply for anything good. Be prepared to spend

[jon_jon]

Before you start looking for Patek ADs, ask yourself "why are you looking into Patek?" That honest answer from yourself will be something an AD will appreciate.

There is no right or wrong answer to the above question. Not everyone is a big watch enthusiasts who has collected watches since childhood. Not everyone has the deep pockets to spend 6 or 7 figures on a watch collection. Maybe it is a curiosity with the SS sports watch craze, perhaps it's just the brand and the mystery behind it. Some AD salespeople know a lot, but many know very little. Some of the SAs jump between watch/jewelry stores regularly and for some, it is just a job. Some ADs are snobbish and judge you based on age, appearance, etc. Some watch collectors are snobbish too, so it goes both ways. Just like shopping at any luxury brand retail store, go in with an open mind. Sometimes it is not very different from walking into a Hermes store or a Ferrari dealership. Some SAs are very friendly and others are not.

Good luck with your venture into the brand. It is a special watch brand that has a lot of history. It takes time to get over the surface appeal and understand the watch brand for what it is.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

Before you start looking for Patek ADs, ask yourself "why are you looking into Patek?" That honest answer from yourself will be something an AD will appreciate.

There is no right or wrong answer to the above question. Not everyone is a big watch enthusiasts who has collected watches since childhood. Not everyone has the deep pockets to spend 6 or 7 figures on a watch collection. Maybe it is a curiosity with the SS sports watch craze, perhaps it's just the brand and the mystery behind it. Some AD salespeople know a lot, but many know very little. Some of the SAs jump between watch/jewelry stores regularly and for some, it is just a job. Some ADs are snobbish and judge you based on age, appearance, etc. Some watch collectors are snobbish too, so it goes both ways. Just like shopping at any luxury brand retail store, go in with an open mind. Sometimes it is not very different from walking into a Hermes store or a Ferrari dealership. Some SAs are very friendly and others are not.

Good luck with your venture into the brand. It is a special watch brand that has a lot of history. It takes time to get over the surface appeal and understand the watch brand for what it is.

+1 on Hermes
Walked into a local Hermes boutique and snubbed by the first SA we talked to who basically told us to shop at another store then few minutes later connected to a wonderful SA. We have been with her for over 10 years now and the other one disappeared 5-6 years ago.

I think it is the SA and not the AD which matters more. AD is a thing and SA is a person

[Milibrk@]

if you're ready to spend then they all will treat you like the Prince of Dubai regardless of how you dress...needless to say if you're just kicking tire while you're visiting.

[Trainedmonkey]

My strategy was pretty simple.

- Family owned dealer
- Always deal with the owner or immediate family

You don't want to be building a relationship with a sales representative that will suddenly leave one day.

Then buy everything for the same dealer and have them service your watches. Yes it takes money and time, but if you are serious that's the way.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by Trainedmonkey

My strategy was pretty simple.

- Family owned dealer
- Always deal with the owner or immediate family

You don't want to be building a relationship with a sales representative that will suddenly leave one day.

Then buy everything for the same dealer and have them service your watches. Yes it takes money and time, but if you are serious that's the way.

This is the way

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by ap1

None of this matters, no supply for anything good. Be prepared to spend

This is the best advice you'll get ^^^^^.
Here are the details of how to do it.
Go into the AD and ask to see a 5227, a 5905, a 5960 and a 5711 (which, of course, they won't have). Don't ask about any other brand, buying those won't help your Patek cause. If they have any of those references in stock buy the two least expensive. A month later go back and buy another Patek. Two months later, repeat this.
After you have purchased at least 6 Pateks tell your AD, nicely but firmly, that you want a 5711/1R.
If this kind of spending is beyond your budget then look for another brand to collect.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by cascavel

This is the best advice you'll get ^^^^^.
Here are the details of how to do it.
Go into the AD and ask to see a 5227, a 5905, a 5960 and a 5711 (which, of course, they won't have). Don't ask about any other brand, buying those won't help your Patek cause. If they have any of those references in stock buy the two least expensive. A month later go back and buy another Patek. Two months later, repeat this.
After you have purchased at least 6 Pateks tell your AD, nicely but firmly, that you want a 5711/1R.
If this kind of spending is beyond your budget then look for another brand to collect.

+1

Sometimes I read through these threads and I wonder what the expectations are without actually BUYING anything.

You're absolutely right. If a person desires Patek, then go to the Patek AD and start actually buying Patek's...

[ts3]

Depending on which watches you want they will try to do at least as much diligence on you as you are planning to do on them. Like where you are from, which watches you own and why, possibly what you do, why you are now interested in Patek, why you want the reference(s) you want, why you went to see them vs the next AD etc. Gauging if you are a flipper may be high on their mind too.

If you tell them what you are planning to buy you'll see how they react and if they'll give you some comfort as to whether that is realistic including an idea on timing. When I was looking years ago I just wanted one watch and some ADs pretty much told me it is not going happen (which is ok), whereas another one said it may take 2-3 years after we had a long chat, which was how long it took in the end.

[daOnlyBG]

I'd like to thank the many insightful responses here, and I will respond to each in kind.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by jfriedkin

I don't think you can go wrong with an AD. Patek has TOO much at stake to have AD that ignore their customers that just walk through the door. The fact the you have ZERO knowledge is the very best thing you have going for you. Let them educate you on what to buy (their best interest, not yours), ALL ADs want to build a relationship with new buyers. Call an AD, make an appointment. If I were you, I would look at everything they have in the showcase. Those are the models you will be able to buy. Try them All on. Ask a lot of questions and get educated.

Thanks. I did as much of that as time permitted today (conversed with the gentleman, had him point out many watches to me, asked many questions, tried a few on, and so forth).

Originally Posted by Billfav

I believe your passion for the brand will speak volumes. It has for me as I was a customer of my AD for years and they knew I was a watch nut. It has served me well once I decided to reach for my first PP. I am sure my past business helped but I was not one of their high rollers in terms of spend either.

Thanks. I think I did come across as a watch nut, lol. I will probably end up buying pieces from other brands first before buying some of their Pateks- just to be taken a little more seriously.

Originally Posted by HMHM

Generally my first impression of an AD is honesty. I appreciate if they can say something as it is or provide a reasonable counter offer. Waitlist kind of thing is generally nonsense I feel. It’s either they want your business or not. I appreciate being told a NO than being jerk around with a non-existence wait list. At least I can figure out how to approach the situation instead of waiting for something that never arrives.

I agree wholeheartedly, and the part of being told "as it is" resonates strongly on this end. I know for a fact wait lists exist, but dealers rarely mention that you have to move up said waitlists with purchases (as opposed to the waitlist strictly being chronological). Any sugar coating will probably turn me off.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by 2nastie

I mean generally people pick the one from their city and usually it's the only one in town.

Or if there is no local one then a place where you might visit most often.

I won't tend to be picky unless that AD rubs you the wrong way. No guarantee that each and every experience at a particular AD is good. I'll focus on the kind of watches you want first. It seems like you are going to through buying the entire catalogue and need to screen where you money should go... if you were, then it really doesn't matter cause AD would judge you based on your wallet anyways and provide top notch service at that point.

Thanks. Money does indeed speak louder than any other factor. One local AD I've visited rubbed me the wrong way- albeit quite subtly. The one I visited more recently, out of town, seemed a bit less snobby, and the way they took their time to explain things indicated that they valued my time just as I value their assistance.

Originally Posted by ap1

None of this matters, no supply for anything good. Be prepared to spend

Well, you're right that there's no supply for anything I ultimately wanted- but the World Time references look simply beautiful. Also, if the 5196P came with a bigger movement and case back, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it, regardless of the hit it takes on secondary.

Originally Posted by jon_jon

Before you start looking for Patek ADs, ask yourself "why are you looking into Patek?" That honest answer from yourself will be something an AD will appreciate.

There is no right or wrong answer to the above question. Not everyone is a big watch enthusiasts who has collected watches since childhood. Not everyone has the deep pockets to spend 6 or 7 figures on a watch collection. Maybe it is a curiosity with the SS sports watch craze, perhaps it's just the brand and the mystery behind it. Some AD salespeople know a lot, but many know very little. Some of the SAs jump between watch/jewelry stores regularly and for some, it is just a job. Some ADs are snobbish and judge you based on age, appearance, etc. Some watch collectors are snobbish too, so it goes both ways. Just like shopping at any luxury brand retail store, go in with an open mind. Sometimes it is not very different from walking into a Hermes store or a Ferrari dealership. Some SAs are very friendly and others are not.

Good luck with your venture into the brand. It is a special watch brand that has a lot of history. It takes time to get over the surface appeal and understand the watch brand for what it is.

Thank you so much. I agree with your very first and very last line: it does indeed take time to get into the brand itself. I find myself admiring certain models, but not necessarily the heritage that ties them together- yet, anyway. I will work on that before taking the plunge.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by ts3

Depending on which watches you want they will try to do at least as much diligence on you as you are planning to do on them. Like where you are from, which watches you own and why, possibly what you do, why you are now interested in Patek, why you want the reference(s) you want, why you went to see them vs the next AD etc. Gauging if you are a flipper may be high on their mind too.

If you tell them what you are planning to buy you'll see how they react and if they'll give you some comfort as to whether that is realistic including an idea on timing. When I was looking years ago I just wanted one watch and some ADs pretty much told me it is not going happen (which is ok), whereas another one said it may take 2-3 years after we had a long chat, which was how long it took in the end.

Thanks. It's often a difficult to not come across as a flipper- especially when, you know, I really like the blue gradient dial on the 5711. That said, my dream Patek is actually a complications piece- I doubt the Patek AD would call that a flipper's target. As I mentioned in another post on this thread, I also liked the 5196P (although I was turned off by not being able to see the movement. I also would have preferred it was automatic instead of manual wind, etc). And with the 5711 being discontinued and a new Nautilus in the works, perhaps I should just sit still for a while Patek figures out its next move.

Originally Posted by llngoc

+1 on Hermes
Walked into a local Hermes boutique and snubbed by the first SA we talked to who basically told us to shop at another store then few minutes later connected to a wonderful SA. We have been with her for over 10 years now and the other one disappeared 5-6 years ago.

I think it is the SA and not the AD which matters more. AD is a thing and SA is a person

Hey, fair enough. I think people tend to dismiss an entire AD once they've had a poor experience with just one sales associate.

Originally Posted by Milibrk@

if you're ready to spend then they all will treat you like the Prince of Dubai regardless of how you dress...needless to say if you're just kicking tire while you're visiting.

No kicking tires on my end, but that brings up another question- are ADs flexible on some pricing these days? Some of the pieces take a tremendous hit once you walk out the door. We don't think too much of it with Rolex since the % translates to a nominal price, but some of these $50K-$60K pieces end up being $35K or so (perhaps that's how they screen for a real spenders, hah).

[David001]

If you really want one of the hotter Pateks then you're better off going grey.
I've spent six figures with one dealer and they very politely told me that I'm a valued customer but only people that have spent seven figures are getting a 57XX hot model any time soon - and there are no shortage of those today.

They probably get just a few pieces a year and there are lots on the waiting list, so it would be cheaper to go to a grey dealer than spend enough to warrant getting one from an AD.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by David001

If you really want one of the hotter Pateks then you're better off going grey.
I've spent six figures with one dealer and they very politely told me that I'm a valued customer but only people that have spent seven figures are getting a 57XX hot model any time soon - and there are no shortage of those today.

They probably get just a few pieces a year and there are lots on the waiting list, so it would be cheaper to go to a grey dealer than spend enough to warrant getting one from an AD.

Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree.

The closer I look, the more I struggle to see why one would pursue any relationship with a Patek Philippe AD in the first place (yes, I know- this makes my original question moot). Perhaps 5-6 years ago it made sense, but today, I do wonder- the prices on everything they have in the showcase has at least a $10K instant depreciation, and for other models, even higher. By the time you've spent enough cash on timepieces (let's say, what, 10-12 pieces?) you could have taken your losses and bought the Nautilus you've always wanted.

And someone might suggest that's strategic on Patek's part: they only reel in the world's top spenders, the ones who don't bat an eyelid over dropping a few hundred thousand a year or whatever.

But even to those luxury heavyweights, I do have to ask: what's the benefit of it all? Why not just go grey and save money across the board? After you've spent your $60K-$120K on that 5711, you'll save hundreds of thousands on buying World Times, Calatravas, chronographs, and so forth on the grey market anyway.

Is there a certain piece at the end of the rainbow that suddenly tilts the value equation in the other direction? A $250K piece that's now worth $2.5 mil? Perhaps the opportunity to have a tailored, one-off timepiece? That's not a rhetorical question, but a rather sincere one.

I'll concede that the fact I have to ask that question may betray the fact that I'm simply not ready to take that step, but the question remains anyway. Does the "official" Patek experience only make sense for an extremely small portion of the watch collector base?

[CastorKrieg]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree.

The closer I look, the more I struggle to see why one would pursue any relationship with a Patek Philippe AD in the first place (yes, I know- this makes my original question moot). Perhaps 5-6 years ago it made sense, but today, I do wonder- the prices on everything they have in the showcase has at least a $10K instant depreciation, and for other models, even higher. By the time you've spent enough cash on timepieces (let's say, what, 10-12 pieces?) you could have taken your losses and bought the Nautilus you've always wanted.

And someone might suggest that's strategic on Patek's part: they only reel in the world's top spenders, the ones who don't bat an eyelid over dropping a few hundred thousand a year or whatever.

But even to those luxury heavyweights, I do have to ask: what's the benefit of it all? Why not just go grey and save money across the board? After you've spent your $60K-$120K on that 5711, you'll save hundreds of thousands on buying World Times, Calatravas, chronographs, and so forth on the grey market anyway.

Is there a certain piece at the end of the rainbow that suddenly tilts the value equation in the other direction? A $250K piece that's now worth $2.5 mil? Perhaps the opportunity to have a tailored, one-off timepiece? That's not a rhetorical question, but a rather sincere one.

I'll concede that the fact I have to ask that question may betray the fact that I'm simply not ready to take that step, but the question remains anyway. Does the "official" Patek experience only make sense for an extremely small portion of the watch collector base?

It's a well-known phenomenon of scarcity and popularity - people like to feel they belong to an elite club of people that can get any watch they want 'at retail'. Yes, it is much more expensive than buying a single Nautilus second-hand, but these people have the money. I am sure there are plenty of watch nuts in high-society circles that mention to their friends they got a 5711 from a boutique (or even better, a Salon), which is a form social peacocking.