904L: softer than plastic!

[HiBoost]

Being a nerd I wanted to measure various case dimensions to see how they compared to the published specs. Though I have many precision measuring instruments I don't dare bring their sharp metal surfaces near my watches. So I ordered up a plastic jawed set of digital calipers just for this purpose. I take out my new Bluesy, carefully place the jaws at 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock and close them gently... 41.0mm... right on the money. Open the jaws, remove the calipers. No perceptible dragging along the surface. Glance at the side of the case... WTF is this?? Yep, scratched. Unreal. I knew these things were delicate, but this is really something. It's nice that we have a bracelet option on more models these days, but can I get a 316L case option please??

In my previous town, our jewelry store had a watchmaker who had moved to the US from Switzerland. He was head of Rolex US service for 10 years, and head of AP service for 5 years. I felt extremely lucky to have access to someone like this and I figured it was surely safe to let him regulate my 16710. He gave it back to me and I immediately saw vertical scratches on the side of the case. I was speechless. He had even made the comment to me that he could tell my watch had never been opened before because most watchmakers were "butchers" and would leave traces behind. For the last 10 years I have wondered how this guy could have scratched up the case like that. I had assumed he used a metal case holder or had metal jaws in the timegrapher or something "obvious". But now that I have experienced the damage that plastic can cause, I guess he may have not been that careless.

Anyway, had to vent to somebody. Nobody I know in real life wants to hear it... :)

scratch.jpg

[Masteryacht]

They do scratch very easily. Especially the high polish parts.

[amphr1]

damn. i need to be even more careful with mine now that I know.

[KathleenL]

Oh, wow, I'm sorry that happened. But just because something is plastic, I don't think of it as soft or not able to scratch things.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by KathleenL

Oh, wow, I'm sorry that happened. But just because something is plastic, I don't think of it as soft or not able to scratch things.

Yeah, I had actually looked this up prior believe it or not. Many plastics *can* be hard enough to scratch gold, but per the Mohs charts I had seen it appeared it was much softer than stainless steel. Thanks for nothing, Google lol.

Originally Posted by amphora001

damn. i need to be even more careful with mine now that I know.

That was the main point of this "PSA"... learn from my mistakes ;)

Originally Posted by Hindsight

A tiny piece of sand or harder steel stuck to or embedded in the plastic of your calipers is probably the culprit. I know that doesn't make it feel better

Anything is possible, but I've never used these on anything other than watches and I have a habit of always running my thumb down both caliper jaws to wipe them clean prior to measuring anything. Comes from woodworking where they'll have enough sawdust on them to throw the measurement off. In any case, just sucks to have something happen even while trying to avoid that exact thing.

I'm motivated to redirect this negative experience into one of two things: either learning to polish or learning to live with scratches. Knowing my personality it seems like the former is a better fit haha.

[doboy007]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Yeah, I had actually looked this up prior believe it or not. Many plastics *can* be hard enough to scratch gold, but per the Mohs charts I had seen it appeared it was much softer than stainless steel. Thanks for nothing, Google lol.

So by the logic, you think plastic knife won’t be able to scratch or mar the polished finish of SS? Keep rubbing with it and you’ll find out. These highly polished surfaces will show any minute imperfections.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by doboy007

So by the logic, you think plastic knife won’t be able to scratch or mar the polished finish of SS? Keep rubbing with it and you’ll find out. These highly polished surfaces will show any minute imperfections.

So by that logic if you rub glass on a diamond long enough the diamond will wear away? I don't claim to be an expert in material properties, obviously, but the Mohs scale is literally defined by a material's scratch resistance when in contact with another material. The higher number item should scratch the lower number item and not the other way around. Clearly this didn't pan out in the real world which is consistent with me always getting to learn things the hard way ;)

Anyway, for those who don't care about scratches "nothing to see here"... for those who try to be extra careful with things, here's your heads up that these things are really easy to mar ;)

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

So by that logic if you rub glass on a diamond long enough the diamond will wear away? I don't claim to be an expert in material properties, obviously, but the Mohs scale is literally defined by a material's scratch resistance when in contact with another material. The higher number item should scratch the lower number item and not the other way around. Clearly this didn't pan out in the real world which is consistent with me always getting to learn things the hard way ;)

Anyway, for those who don't care about scratches "nothing to see here"... for those who try to be extra careful with things, here's your heads up that these things are really easy to mar ;)

Ok so you said “Mohs Scale” so I’m gonna go ahead and assume you know more than me lol.

But I just want to say, there’s a difference between a ding, dent, nick and a surface scratch (that is smooth to the touch). I’m sure that’s obviously to all of us but I mention it because even a dress shirt cuff will eventually leave swirlies and little surface scratches on a SS watch. So it seems obvious to me that almost anything can scratch SS despite where it lands on an official hardness scale.

Am I wrong?

[Golden Ellipse]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

So by that logic if you rub glass on a diamond long enough the diamond will wear away? I don't claim to be an expert in material properties, obviously, but the Mohs scale is literally defined by a material's scratch resistance when in contact with another material. The higher number item should scratch the lower number item and not the other way around. Clearly this didn't pan out in the real world which is consistent with me always getting to learn things the hard way ;)

Anyway, for those who don't care about scratches "nothing to see here"... for those who try to be extra careful with things, here's your heads up that these things are really easy to mar ;)

Yes. Look at rivers flowing over rocks…

[Roddypeepa]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

So by that logic if you rub glass on a diamond long enough the diamond will wear away? I don't claim to be an expert in material properties, obviously, but the Mohs scale is literally defined by a material's scratch resistance when in contact with another material. The higher number item should scratch the lower number item and not the other way around. Clearly this didn't pan out in the real world which is consistent with me always getting to learn things the hard way ;)

Anyway, for those who don't care about scratches "nothing to see here"... for those who try to be extra careful with things, here's your heads up that these things are really easy to mar ;)

Moh scale is empirical. It’s a matter of basic science that when two surfaces rub atoms are abraded form
Both. Mohs is just the relative loss of one versus the other. If you think about it tyres wear quicker than asphalt but asphalt still gets worn down over millions of cars and miles. Hardened plastic and polished steel aren’t as far apart as you think. Both will cut you given the right circumstances.


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[Rafeeq]

Damnnnnnnn... From soft plastic--I never would have thunk.

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[Hindsight]

A tiny piece of sand or harder steel stuck to or embedded in the plastic of your calipers is probably the culprit. I know that doesn't make it feel better

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Anyway, had to vent to somebody. Nobody I know in real life wants to hear it... :)

[swiss_seth]

I think it was a particulate on the plastic too.

IMO just wear it and live, it's a watch not a Rembrandt lol


I love the 904L which to my eye has a beautiful white and clean look of the steel. Almost like silver. I can tell a Rolex SS model from far away based on that.


You could take a jewelry polishing cloth and give it a light buffing. I forget the cloth I have, its not a cape cod oozing with petrolium chemicals but more of a very light abrasive.


This is the one I like,

https://www.etsy.com/listing/8085819...?gpla=1&gao=1&


this one is also good.

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...b-ICR4Q8wIIoQg

[jojosnr]

Could be dirt rubbing off onto the watch or as mentioned earlier, something hard stuck to the face of the caliper. Sometime, if there is dirt like sand or hard particles stuck onto our cloth, and when use the cloth to clean the watch, this happens as well.

[kieselguhr]

When I first started wearing a Rolex years ago, I noticed scuffs on the polished flanks of the case where it meets the cuff of my shirt.

For testing purposes, when I bought a brand new unworn button down long sleeve sealed in a plastic packaging, I rubbed the cuff against the polished side of the Rolex and quickly found the surface to get cloudy with miniature scratches.

That Rolex was a 1601 made of 316L and not 904L by the way.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

When I first started wearing a Rolex years ago, I noticed scuffs on the polished flanks of the case where it meets the cuff of my shirt.

For testing purposes, when I bought a brand new unworn button down long sleeve sealed in a plastic packaging, I rubbed the cuff against the polished side of the Rolex and quickly found the surface to get cloudy with miniature scratches.

That Rolex was a 1601 made of 316L and not 904L by the way.

I never did a deliberate test like you, but I can vouch for how easily 316 steel scratches in real world wearing

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I never did a deliberate test like you, but I can vouch for how easily 316 steel scratches in real world wearing

Lol! I was just starting my watch enthusiasm at the time and couldn’t believe that fabric could affect steel in such a way!

[JacksonRain]

Wait wait wait.... A high quality microfiber cloth with just a tad bit of dust or debris can literally scratch the crap out of the highly polished finish of both PM and 904l steel.



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[samuel019]

Well I get your point but it is the polished side of the case not the brushed bracelet

I’m sure if you used the calipers on the bracelet instead you’d be scratch fee.

On a side note I wear a 326935 as a daily and give less than a f*** about all the scratches I put on it.

[2loaded]

Get that polished out immediately. The watch God's are watching.

[ndrs63]

Yet my 2 year-old Sub only has hairline scratches on the polished sides. My conclusion is that if you use the watch “normally” the likelihood for such dents is minimal


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[SWS65SM]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Anyway, had to vent to somebody. Nobody I know in real life wants to hear it... :)

Seriously, I can relate, because similar happened to my bluesy, except that it wasn't a digital caliper but another watch. Barely touched, or leaned, on that side of the case. The immediate outcome looked pretty much just like the pic you posted.

Those high polished areas are incredibly easy to get marred. I mean the PCLs practically develop hairline swirls just by you looking at them, no? But agree with what some said, this is more of really light surface scratch that can be easily removed, if you choose to. Got over it eventually but the first time such things happened I think whatever $#&*@! thoughts/feelings you had were running thru my head, and nope, no one in my family wanted to hear it, hahahaahah

[alphadweller]

Surprising. Next time, some tape on the case before measuring might be the solution, I guess.

[Andad]

Hi Jeff,

I can’t believe it took you all your learned years to understand that a highly polished SS surface can be scuffed by a casual glance.

[WalterW]

I like some scratches. Gives the watch some character and ruggedness.Just don’t go too crazy when you try to add scratches on purpose. Keep it subtle

[1665fan]

Your shirtsleeve can also scratch your Rolex…. Who cares

[904VT]

Definitely can happen. More of a scratching of the finish than the metal below. More than just Mohs scale will influence. Such as shape of the offending material surface (pointed vs smooth) that scratches. You can take a cape cod and very gently polish out if it bothers you. But that should slowly work its way out as your watch picks up more micro-scratches over time.

[Mendota]

So is this bad? I will often breathe a puff of hot air onto the crystal of my watch and then use the inside of my Tshirt or a microfiber cloth and clear off any dust or specs on the crystal, while giving the bezel a quick wipe down if there's any drops of something on it from cooking or whatever. At night I'll use a microfiber cloth and gently and quickly just wipe off any surface crap on the bracelet, case and crystal. Am I potentially swirling and scratching it or dulling the finish? I don't see anything when I look at it, but now's the time to stop before anything happens.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Mendota

So is this bad? I will often breathe a puff of hot air onto the crystal of my watch and then use the inside of my Tshirt or a microfiber cloth and clear off any dust or specs on the crystal, while giving the bezel a quick wipe down if there's any drops of something on it from cooking or whatever. At night I'll use a microfiber cloth and gently and quickly just wipe off any surface crap on the bracelet, case and crystal. Am I potentially swirling and scratching it or dulling the finish? I don't see anything when I look at it, but now's the time to stop before anything happens.

Sapphire crystal and ceramic are both ~9 on the Mohs. It takes a lot to impact those levels. More than a microfibre and some debris. It would take something like a pointed metal edge to cause visual damage.