OP Turquoise - Is this odd to anybody?

[chiscott_29]

OK, so I think most people that pay too much attention to this hobby (myself included) see what’s happened with the Rolex OP Turquoise dial (i.e., “Tiffany”).

It still isn’t clear to me what happened literally overnight to put this watch in the low $30k price point. My assumption is the 5711 Tiffany craziness, combined with the discontinuing whispers that always start up as we head into a new year.

Over the past few days, I’ve noticed almost every single gray dealer has an OP Turquoise now available for sale. Of course, they are all asking $32k and above.

I have always defended grays and the secondary market as I think the positives have always outweighed the negatives. But this really looks suspicious to me that this is some sort of coordinated attempt to manipulate the price of a watch. How is it that all of a sudden everybody has one to offer? IG stories and posts are popping up everywhere…

I’m curious what all of you think. Is this just the craziness and reality of what can happen in today’s market? Or, does anybody else suspect this could be some sort of coordinated action to manipulate the prices in the secondary market?

I’m not trying to inflame or create gossip or anything…I am genuinely interested in hearing people’s thoughts.

Happy Holidays to everybody!


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[Pw92676]

I suspect the people got carried away with the 5711 frenzy. How these numbers came in, beats me.

[Cambo]

Originally Posted by Pw92676

I suspect the people got carried away with the 5711 frenzy. How these numbers came in, beats me.

This

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

OK, so I think most people that pay too much attention to this hobby (myself included) see what’s happened with the Rolex OP Turquoise dial (i.e., “Tiffany”).

It still isn’t clear to me what happened literally overnight to put this watch in the low $30k price point. My assumption is the 5711 Tiffany craziness, combined with the discontinuing whispers that always start up as we head into a new year.

Over the past few days, I’ve noticed almost every single gray dealer has an OP Turquoise now available for sale. Of course, they are all asking $32k and above.

I have always defended grays and the secondary market as I think the positives have always outweighed the negatives. But this really looks suspicious to me that this is some sort of coordinated attempt to manipulate the price of a watch. How is it that all of a sudden everybody has one to offer? IG stories and posts are popping up everywhere…

I’m curious what all of you think. Is this just the craziness and reality of what can happen in today’s market? Or, does anybody else suspect this could be some sort of coordinated action to manipulate the prices in the secondary market?

I’m not trying to inflame or create gossip or anything…I am genuinely interested in hearing people’s thoughts.

Happy Holidays to everybody!


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Christmas...girlfriends and wives must be satisfied or they'll leave you for John Mayer...

[Benzsiam]

I wouldn't pay much attention to the crazy price in secondary market, let the market correct itself with time.

If it's still in production, the price will back down to normal soon.

[adawil2002]

MSRP $5900 anything more is just greedy in the $30Ks is criminal.

[Deroya]

anything over MSRP for an OP is a literal joke

[GVAZQUEZ]

Originally Posted by Deroya

anything over MSRP for an OP is a literal joke

Agree, look a few 100 bucks ok ; max max max 1k over for need it now gift… but 3x the price no way…


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[acaixguard]

Originally Posted by Deroya

anything over MSRP for an OP is a literal joke

Exactly!

[fwhawk]

Originally Posted by Deroya

anything over MSRP for an OP is a literal joke

If that is the case, then frankly you can say the same thing about most Rolex models. Anything over MSRP seems absurd to me for any Rolex except maybe the Daytona. BUT...in a free market anything is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. And that number may be different tomorrow than it is today.

[Cobar65]

Originally Posted by Deroya

anything over MSRP for an OP is a literal joke

Best comment I’ve read on this thread yet.


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[GoingPlaces]

I think this one corrects. Maybe even is the straw. It's an OP.

[Bxtek]

I have heard about a few people who never intended to sell their Tiffany OP, deciding to now sell it because of the hype. Maybe there are lots of people doing the same thing and why you see so many for sale now? Of course, the asking prices are at the top of the mark, but that is their reason for selling.

A number of those watches at greys could be on consignment too. If I owned a 41mm Tiffany, I'd consign it. If it sold at a crazy price, great! If not, I gave it a shot. Nothing ventured nothing gained!

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by Bxtek

I have heard about a few people who never intended to sell their Tiffany OP, deciding to now sell it because of the hype. Maybe there are lots of people doing the same thing and why you see so many for sale now? Of course, the asking prices are at the top of the mark, but that is their reason for selling.

A number of those watches at greys could be on consignment too. If I owned a 41mm Tiffany, I'd consign it. If it sold at a crazy price, great! If not, I gave it a shot. Nothing ventured nothing gained!

I think this is a very thoughtful and objective way to look at it and you bring up some excellent points!


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[AK797]

Think of Greys now as newspaper editors, they are always looking for headlines to make sales so they will take and stretch any piece of info they can to get their sales.

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by AK797

Think of Greys now as newspaper editors, they are always looking for headlines to make sales so they will take and stretch any piece of info they can to get their sales.

100%, they react, promote and build up the hype. This one might be too much of a stretch. We'll see.

[Danny83]

Nothing on this planet should be worth more than 3x msrp my AD begged to buy mine back at 20k the other day 3 weeks after they sold it to me

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Danny83

Nothing on this planet should be worth more than 3x msrp my AD begged to buy mine back at 20k the other day 3 weeks after they sold it to me

Well don't forget, the hypebeast that started this, the Tiffany 5711, sold at auction for 130x MSRP. So in this current market, the watch PE ratio still puts this new OP pricing (at around 6-7x) heavily into the "buy" category. If you can't see the value then your loss lolol

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

I have always defended grays and the secondary market as I think the positives have always outweighed the negatives.

The positive is they are used watch dealers .
High demand has made them opportunists .Cashing in on a new generations vanity .Well,take them to the cleaners then .Good for you Mr Grey.

So who copied who ? Patek copied Rolex or Rolex copied Patek on the light blue theme.
You be the judge.

Looking at current market pricing on the OP41 ..well,it has nothing to do with the merit of the watch anymore .Its a mad frenzy ...and its not classy.

[Nav01L]

Look, it’s relatively simple:

Nobody saw this Patek/Tiffany thing coming. Thierry said there would be a surprise in the end of the 5711, but none of us would have expected that.

Obviously such an event creates visibility and desirability around this particular color and so, obviously, there was a rush to the OP41.

Now, since this watch has been out for a year and didn’t have that much hype initially, many are in hands of people for whom 30k is a lot of money.

All these people are now storming the fort with their local grey hoping to make a buck.

Conversely, the greys have seen this before, they know which way this watch is going and are happily buying them.

And so every grey has one. Fully normal. You’ll see that once the initial rush pumping all the “civilian” watches into the dealer network will have died down, there will be far less of them around, as the parties paying 30k for them now are more sophisticated and won’t run back into the market with them to make a quick buck. At 30k, either you really need to have one to be seen in, or you make a play for something bigger (which honestly is not beyond reasonable to assume may happen when the ample supply we see now dries up). I can only repeat, just imagine how many 5711s have been made over the years, and yet they trade at the current inflated price all day long. This watch has the potential to do exactly the same and in absolute numbers, there are probably fewer of them out there.

[WatchNutcase]

You'd have to be completely off your rocker to buy that watch at 30k, the value is just so outrageously not there at that price.

[bob sims]

Originally Posted by WatchNutcase

You'd have to be completely off your rocker to buy that watch at 30k, the value is just so outrageously not there at that price.

People that bought at 18k were told the same thing.
They look firmly ON their rocker right now.

[WatchNutcase]

Originally Posted by bob sims

People that bought at 18k were told the same thing.
They look firmly ON their rocker right now.

I wasn't referring to speculative monetary value, if you want to go ahead and play the hot potato game that's fine if you win, you'll look like a genius.

If you're buying that OP because you think it provides horological value such as a great complication, or hand finishing like a Patek, you're off your rocker.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by WatchNutcase

I wasn't referring to speculative monetary value, if you want to go ahead and play the hot potato game that's fine if you win, you'll look like a genius.

If you're buying that OP because you think it provides horological value such as a great complication, or hand finishing like a Patek, you're off your rocker.

A Nautilus has very minor hand finishing as well in terms of what you can do as hand finishing. It's a very basic watch in the realm of Patek, so it's not that different from an OP, each relative to what their brands otherwise do.

[Benzsiam]

Originally Posted by nav01l

a nautilus has very minor hand finishing as well in terms of what you can do as hand finishing. It's a very basic watch in the realm of patek, so it's not that different from an op, each relative to what their brands otherwise do.

+1

Originally Posted by nav01l

why is it so important for the watch to be a tiffany reference, or referential to tiffany in order to be appealing. In case you missed it, enough people liked this watch before the whole tiffany nautilus story for it to be valued at around 18k, more than 3 times its msrp. The only other steel rolex with such a premium is the white daytona. Not exactly the sign of an unpopular reference. All the tiffany thing did was to propel the phenomenon. And granted, we all referenced the color as tiffany from the beginning, but i think that's allowable if the alternative is having to type out something like "robin egg turquoise" each time. It's probably not a sound assumption to believe that we all only like this watch because of tiffany (which until this nautilus thing wasn't actually that popular of a company, lvmh tried hard enough to get back out of that deal). It is just a nice distinctive reference with a genuinely appealing color which finally is a breath of fresh air in a world in which everything is a substantially similar boring shade of dark blue or irish green.

+1

Originally Posted by vgandhi01

how come 30k is not justified? Patek and ap prices are justified for some reason. In my opinion tiffany blue is a stunning watch and appeals on another level. I have seen one in person and it is gorgeous. Rolex will want to compete with patek and by limiting the pieces of op tiffany gives them an upper hand. Also, let's not forget patek copied op based on the op hype.

+1

[chiscott_29]

Somebody above mentioned about this being the event that triggers a change.

I am very dubious about anything changing because let’s be really honest. Everybody is winning to some degree, except for the people trying to break in. These people are truly expendable right now and quite frankly nobody really cares and it can be brushed off as “I’ll worry about new customers when I have to”. I am not saying I agree with this, I’m just laying it out there on the table.

You can also say the “hobby” is losing but that’s been in progress now for a few years. Society and human beings in general have little capacity in today’s world to concern themselves with such nebulous concepts.

The thing I do wonder is if this will create a backlash against secondary dealers and expose them as “opportunists” as suggested above. That’s a really good question and I have to say this is the first time I am in the camp that says “Yeah, I hope so…”


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[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Somebody above mentioned about this being the event that triggers a change.

I am very dubious about anything changing because let’s be really honest. Everybody is winning to some degree, except for the people trying to break in. These people are truly expendable right now and quite frankly nobody really cares and it can be brushed off as “I’ll worry about new customers when I have to”. I am not saying I agree with this, I’m just laying it out there on the table.

You can also say the “hobby” is losing but that’s been in progress now for a few years. Society and human beings in general have little capacity in today’s world to concern themselves with such nebulous concepts.

The thing I do wonder is if this will create a backlash against secondary dealers and expose them as “opportunists” as suggested above. That’s a really good question and I have to say this is the first time I am in the camp that says “Yeah, I hope so…”


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At some point there is typically saturation or exhaustion, in this case likely the latter of the two would be my guess. The issue with the OP is the Tiffany part, it's a grossly exploited inaccuracy. It's turquoise, which IMO helps separate the clued-in from the clueless. I don't remember this much pushback or commentary when Daytona and company started to ascend into the outer regions of the atmosphere. These climbs were far more incremental and took several years. The OP is supposedly on a far more rapid and steeper trajectory all based on hype compounded with shortage/over demand.

Will it continue, who knows, I have been wrong about so much of this watch craze. If the OP does reach stratospheric levels, then we have entered a new dimension with no return. People really have lost their minds.

As for the grey's I never really had an issues, however when they now call it a Tiffany Rolex, it really demonstrates the level they are willing to go to. Does not resonate well with me.

Hobby remains a hobby for many of us still, but we also have an influx of social media flexers that lack the passion for this hobby and want the Rolex for all the wrong reasons IMO.

[Kevin.S]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Somebody above mentioned about this being the event that triggers a change.

I am very dubious about anything changing because let’s be really honest. Everybody is winning to some degree, except for the people trying to break in. These people are truly expendable right now and quite frankly nobody really cares and it can be brushed off as “I’ll worry about new customers when I have to”. I am not saying I agree with this, I’m just laying it out there on the table.

You can also say the “hobby” is losing but that’s been in progress now for a few years. Society and human beings in general have little capacity in today’s world to concern themselves with such nebulous concepts.

The thing I do wonder is if this will create a backlash against secondary dealers and expose them as “opportunists” as suggested above. That’s a really good question and I have to say this is the first time I am in the camp that says “Yeah, I hope so…”


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I will also add that all the hype/speculation concerning watch values in today's society that (some) human beings concern themselves with is another nebulous concept ....

[HMHM]

I’m not surprised though. Rolex as a brand is stronger than Patek. And it’s attainable at 30k as compared to 6.5M for a Tiffany Blue 5711. People who want to experience the thrill of a turquoise blue watch have not much options. It’s absurd, but the market is all about supply and demand.

[Bxtek]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I’m not surprised though. Rolex as a brand is stronger than Patek. And it’s attainable at 30k as compared to 6.5M for a Tiffany Blue 5711. People who want to experience the thrill of a turquoise blue watch have not much options. It’s absurd, but the market is all about supply and demand.

People better jump on this now to get the "Tiffany" blue dial experience! 41mm, day/date complication at $149 MSRP. Wait and you will be paying $5K soon! You heard it here first. Lol!

https://www.timex.com/waterbury-lega...ew-all#start=1