5513 case pitting, HELP!

[TheManny]

I’ve been offered this 5513 with rough pitting on the backside of the case. It this fixable by laser welding? Also lugs are heavily polished, is it possible to fix those to ”original” condition by laser welding? How much would all this cost?
Thank you for the help.

[Hemdog]

Whoa- have you considered buying a new sub instead?

[Coronette]

I would re case it. Laser welding would cost just as much because the whole movement will have to be removed anyway.

[garyk]

Looks like the owner got a lot of use out of that! I would look at another watch if possible?

[Tools]

There are a lot of ways to restore original cases, and it can be worthwhile for older, hard to find, models.

Long term value/provenance also needs to be considered as original cases will eventually disappear.

The surface can be cleaned up with a lathe and deep pitting filled with a number of suitable substances that will give reasonable waterproofing. The center can also be machined out and a new core pressed into place, replacing most of the sealing surface and new solid threads.

All of these require a skilled watchmaker, and you would pay for the talent.

Like restoring anything, only you can decide if the cost and effort is worth it. If you toss it, it is lost forever.

[TheManny]

I would like to fix this, since it contains original paperwork too matching the serial.

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by TheManny

I would like to fix this, since it contains original paperwork too matching the serial.

A 5513 will no longer be under warranty - the paperwork doesn't have any real value (beyond sentimental). That watch is seriously damaged. It's the kind of thing that could be worth dealing with if it were a family heirloom, but for something you're just looking to purchase for a collection... Well, at least for my part, I'd keep looking. You'll end up paying so much to make it look good, you could have just found a better 5513 for that money. And serious vintage collectors probably wouldn't pay for a watch that had been extensively refinished/recut, so you'd be unlikely to recoup such an expense (if that matters).

[Onequik135i]

I would want to repair it too especially if it is accompanied w matching paperwork. Try Phillip Ridley.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Onequik135i

I would want to repair it too especially if it is accompanied w matching paperwork. Try Phillip Ridley.

Here is an interesting refinish of pitted sealing surfaces.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=39986

[Guybrush]

FWIW, a quick search at Tropical Watch shows that Jacek has several 5513s for sale in way better condition, some of them with original papers and/or service papers (so they're good to go).

A case-in-point re: the (financial) risk of "recutting" a case to restore bevels: https://wannabuyawatch.com/product/r...cg-circa-1960/

[Innocenti]

Short answer is yes laser welding can fix it.

Also the lugs too. However depending on how much metal is missing from the lugs there probably comes a point where it would be easier cheaper to look for another watch.

[TheManny]

Originally Posted by Innocenti

Short answer is yes laser welding can fix it.

Also the lugs too. However depending on how much metal is missing from the lugs there probably comes a point where it would be easier cheaper to look for another watch.

Are we talking about many thousands of dollars? Or 1-2k?

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by TheManny

Are we talking about many thousands of dollars? Or 1-2k?

My understanding is that many places do laser welding by the hour—usually around $100 USD per hour. If you’re talking about extensive welding plus rebuilding/reshaping overpolished lugs, I’d have to assume… $2500 to 3k at least? Guessing the movement will also need a service as well, but that should be under $1k.

Maybe before buying the piece send the pics to some of the laser welding folks and get an estimate so you know what you’d be in for.

[horseco]

To have a flawless case after laser welding. That would be a dream for me. In essence like buying it factory new again.

[Ketler]

Based on your pictures, I would look for another example...

[Black Bay Dan]

Michael Young in Hong Kong may well be able to sort this out for you. He made an old & very stretched 1016 Bracelet of mine look like new. Last time I asked he did laser welding to build up very polished lugs. I am sure others on TRF have more experience with Michael. Good luck.

[Gab27]

I would suggest possibly sending additional pictures to some of the companies that do restoration for at least a rough estimate. That corrosion looks pretty severe and it seems like you could find yourself putting a lot more into this than it seems.

Personally, I'd rather have one in better condition to begin with, with or without paperwork. Corrosion is a pretty nasty thing to deal with.

[Rebel]

Wow. That one has "been there and done that."

[Filipão]

Shouldn't this be moved to "Vintage"?

[Undefeatable]

5513's are easy to find. I would just find an example in better condition, unless you are getting a absolutely killer deal (like half price to account for the cost of laser welding the case and lugs). If Box & Papers are a must, you can find complete sets out there.

[gerry100]

How does that kind of pitting happen on stainless steel?

[fsprow]

Originally Posted by gerry100

How does that kind of pitting happen on stainless steel?

Long term corrosion, likely from the slow penetration of salts from wrist sweat into this hard to see (and clean) area.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by gerry100

How does that kind of pitting happen on stainless steel?

Stainless steel is "stainless" because it forms a protective layer of chromium oxide when exposed to oxygen.

At the sealing surface, especially around the gasket, the gasket itself rubs off this protection. When skin oils and acids move in where this protection is removed, that allows corrosion to get a foothold. Once corrosion starts it needs to be completely removed so the protective oxide can once again form.

904L has helped with this because it is more resistant to corrosion. However, it is a good reason for periodic maintenance where these surfaces are cleaned and stabilized.

[SS Oyster]

I would move past that example into one with much better condition.

[Jackie Daytona]

Going against the grain here but if the price is cheap I would go for it.

It’s been well worn and loved for a while, and as with everything through the years eventually it will need some help and attention. If you like the watch and it’s cheap buy it, put in the work at LAWW or Rolliworks to do a case restoration so it all looks and seals properly and enjoy.

Good 5513s are always getting rarer and if you can save one and enjoy if for many years do it. No reason to just call what would otherwise be a nice vintage watch scrap as long as something can be done about it in a fiscally responsible manner. They won’t all be mint forever, and if they are they weren’t enjoyed as they should have been.

They were meant to be worn and it’s not the worst thing to put in some work on it to save one I think.

Again that being all based on the price. Essentially as long as the seller is aware it’s not a great example it should be worth it I think. Plus you’ll have the satisfaction of having saved another example.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by Dontknow

Going against the grain here but if the price is cheap I would go for it.

It’s been well worn and loved for a while, and as with everything through the years eventually it will need some help and attention. If you like the watch and it’s cheap buy it, put in the work at LAWW or Rolliworks to do a case restoration so it all looks and seals properly and enjoy.

Good 5513s are always getting rarer and if you can save one and enjoy if for many years do it. No reason to just call what would otherwise be a nice vintage watch scrap as long as something can be done about it in a fiscally responsible manner. They won’t all be mint forever, and if they are they weren’t enjoyed as they should have been.

They were meant to be worn and it’s not the worst thing to put in some work on it to save one I think.

Again that being all based on the price. Essentially as long as the seller is aware it’s not a great example it should be worth it I think. Plus you’ll have the satisfaction of having saved another example.

This ✓ all about price £750-1000 would entirely fix it and not be spotted by 98% of 'fasdtidious collectors' buy on the overall package and dial condition my advice

[joli160]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

This ✓ all about price £750-1000 would entirely fix it and not be spotted by 98% of 'fasdtidious collectors' buy on the overall package and dial condition my advice

I wonder who you have in mind working that cheap ?

It requires quite some expensive equipment and extensive training.
Doing it properly you need to machine it first, than weld and machine it back to specs. Unless shortcuts are taken in the process 750-1000 seems like a bargain to me.
Wonder which company you have in mind ?

[Innocenti]

The pitting on the back doesn’t look too bad easy fix with laser welding it will look perfect . Apart from you won’t see it at all. I personally wouldn’t take an old 5513 or similar in the water.

[TheManny]

Thank you all for the opinions and great answers. I decided to pull the trigger on this one, and get it. Got it for a fair price in my own opinion, with a factor that it has the original papers (I know some people don’t find it necessary for an older watch like this). Now I’ll just have to find the source for laser welding and restoration work. I am located in Northern Europe, so would prefer a workshop in EU area too, but it isn’t a must. I have heard that Rolliworks, Michael Young and Phillip does this kind of work, but all of them are far away from me. I assume also that the movement will need an full overhaul too, so an watchmaker that can do both and is an true professional in this area is needed! So please, if you know some place or someone, inform me! Thanks to all!

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by TheManny

Thank you all for the opinions and great answers. I decided to pull the trigger on this one, and get it. Got it for a fair price in my own opinion, with a factor that it has the original papers (I know some people don’t find it necessary for an older watch like this). Now I’ll just have to find the source for laser welding and restoration work. I am located in Northern Europe, so would prefer a workshop in EU area too, but it isn’t a must. I have heard that Rolliworks, Michael Young and Phillip does this kind of work, but all of them are far away from me. I assume also that the movement will need an full overhaul too, so an watchmaker that can do both and is an true professional in this area is needed! So please, if you know some place or someone, inform me! Thanks to all!

Congrats on the purchase!

There are some EU members on this forum who may be able to help, but you might get more attention by posting a standalone thread for this noting this in the title.

Bas (not sure how often he is on these days) may also have a reference for you.

If you are able to document the restoration process in pics, we would all love to see the transformation.