Rolex Explorer 124270 vs 1016

[logo]

So I'm cautiously "exploring" the possibility of a Rolex Explorer in 2023, and I'm in a bit of a debate with myself. This would be to wear in all scenarios, but especially in the mountains, ocean, water, snow etc - it'll be worn the way it was intended.

I've tried on the new 124270 and overall I think it is a great watch. Clean, well built with a new movement and power reserve, feels very sturdy with a hefty clasp, and can be sourced new. No doubt this is a watch that would do what it needs to do and last generations doing it, and I feel this reference is one of the few in the catalogue that is so true to the original design and materials. I own a modern DJ and modern 321 speedmaster, both also very true to the original design so that is something I appreciate in watches.

However, I can't shake the voice on the other shoulder telling me to look at a 1016. I'd likely be looking to find a 1988/1989 model, R or L serial so that it's more neo-vintage. Love the classic styling of the 3-6-9 dial font, appreciate an aged appearance, like 316L steel and I like the "idea" of vintage overall.

Obviously price and availability differs between the two. No urgency and no certainty I'll buy either, still in the data gathering phase.

Recognizing this is the vintage section, any 1016 or 124270 owners with thoughts/opinions? Any considerations I should be aware of? Reasons why I should or should not be considering a 1016? Tips for sourcing a good condition 1016 if I do go that route?

A photo from Google included below for comparison.

Thanks all and happy holidays!

[G3Z]

I think you’d be crazy to look for a 1016 if you’re wanting it for daily exploration, going in the ocean etc. Too many fail points with the general age of them. And the price.

Go modern and don’t look back

[Juhuatai]

I have a 1016 that I used to wear for all activities. With the way prices have gone and difficulty in repair if damaged, I’d be hesitant to buy one and use it for any strenuous wet water activity. I’d go modern in your case. If you want the look of a 1016, I’d buy one with a service luminova dial. You get the look and function, but lose the originality.

[cotignola]

the 124270 should be perfect for all those activities. It also is very comfortable!

https://ibb.co/gFKCRq9

[starlite29]

I was in a very similar situation and settled on a 114270 with recent RSC papers.

The important thing with older watches whether vintage or neovintage is to ensure recent full service. You can either purchase one and send to RSC or your trusted watchmaker, or find one already serviced.

If recently serviced and verified as functionally intact (meaning no pitting, case tube hood, bezel good) there is no problem at all using a 1016 of any vintage for its intended purpose. You’ll want to verify waterproofing every year at a minimum. If that’s done, you can do whatever you want with it and it will be fine.

[Barada7]

I’ve had a 1016 and 214270. As much as I loved the 1016, similar to the concerns stated above, I just couldn’t daily it. WR concerns, repair concerns, cost, etc., ultimately led me to see it off. But it’s a beautiful watch. Almost as though it were a stainless steel Calatrava in its own way.

[winst]

124270 would be the best choice out of the two I think. BUT, if you are truly going to use it for outdoor activities etc, I would seriously consider the new Tudor Ranger 39mm. That way you get some of the feel of the 1016 but in a modern robust package.

I love my 124270, but feel it is closer to jewellery than tool watch like the 1016 was. My BBPro feels more like my older Rolex watches did - great quality but still toolish. Seriously recommend go and have a look at the Ranger and BBPro. Good hunting!

[Dan S]

How about a drilled lugs tritium 14270 from the 90s. Great watch, I really regret selling mine.

[Toronto Soup King]

My 1016 is not a perfect example - service dial and hands (proper length!) and case could be better - but I love it. I wear it almost every day. Sure I don't get up to much exciting adventure nowadays but with a recent service it'll stand up to splashes, and it's not like the innards are irreplaceable, I have a bunch of other watches with the same movements. I suppose I could get mugged for it, but it's pretty low profile and so am I.

If I could do the whole collecting thing again I'd skip the 5513 and 1675 and 16550. I shoulda just bought an R-serial 1016 from the get-go. Gilt? Older model? Leave those to the museum-level collectors. For a daily, I find my beat-up 1016 just about PERFECT.

[Bob the brush]

I am getting too old for wild adventures now, but when I bought my 1016 in 1982, i wasn't and it accompanied me on whatever I was doing. They are tough no nonsense watches. I still ski, swim, scuba dive, mountain bike, and if it is on my wrist, it does what I do.

[logo]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and feedback. Lots to consider, I think I’ll sit on this idea for some time and balance the pros/cons of each, and ultimately see which way my interests (and the Rolex markets) turn. Fantastic watches either way.

Cheers everyone and Happy New Year!

[TuRo]

Vintage 36mm 3 6 9 Dial Explorer Tudor Ranger worth a look too.... in some respects even more interesting than it's Rolex cousins with its square ended second hand etc i.m.h.o.

https://tudorcollector.com/collection/9411-submariner/

[subtona]

love the 1016.

if it is going to be a daily do all watch i would choose a new one.

the issues with vintage are to unpredictable: WR, spare parts etc...

[blametony]

I own both a 114270 and a 1016 circa 1968. I can honestly tell you I NEVER wear my 114270. I adore the vintage look and feel of the 1016. I am also not a fan of the white gold markers on the newer Explorer. I understand the point of trying to "modernize" the look, but for a classic watch like that, I think they went overboard. The submariner kept much of its original look and feel even with the newer markers. I feel the transition to the newer look of the Explorer removed a lot of its classic charm. My opinion at least.

[blametony]

There is the price difference to consider. You can pick up a 114270 for about 1/3 of what you'll pay for a 1016. You could also explore the newer Tudor Ranger. Very similar look to the 1016 but in 39mm case.

[logo]

Yes I’d definitely like to stick to traditional 36mm sizing, ruling out the current Tudor Ranger. I do also think that if I “settle” on something aesthetically close to the 1016 but not the 1016, I’ll eventually just lust for the 1016 and trade it out. However, I like the design of the 124270 for what it is, appreciating it is different from the 1016 - a clear homage to the past being very much a tool watch still, but with subtle luxury accents and new robust bracelet. So I think it would definitely be one of the two - just have to decide whether the vintage charm is more important to me, or the freshness of something new I can make my own memories with.

[TuRo]

If you want an investment 36mm explorer - then the 'black out' dial 14270 seems to be going like the crema 16550 !

[logo]

Originally Posted by TuRo

If you want an investment 36mm explorer - then the 'black out' dial 14270 seems to be going like the crema 16550 !

These are pretty cool, but I’d personally prefer the 124270 for the similar overall appearance + more lume. Not really worried re investment piece, I plan to keep forever and would likely engrave the caseback.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by TuRo

If you want an investment 36mm explorer - then the 'black out' dial 14270 seems to be going like the crema 16550 !

Just realised you took my advice from 9 months ago - invoice in the post

[logo]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Just realised you took my advice from 9 months ago - invoice in the post

Haha yes indeed, lots of research and reflection on what I wanted since then. It’s a great combination of charm and sensibilities for robustness and water resistance, if only psychological, but to me better suited to be worn regularly than a 1016. What I also love about the blackout is that it’s rare enough that in a room full of watches, it’s almost guaranteed to be different from the rest. Most may have no idea about it, and to them will look like a 14270 unless they get real close. Anyways, something different that I really like.

[Dan S]

This is the vintage forum, where most members love vintage watches and wear them daily. If you're concerned about wearing a vintage watch, and want to discuss the merits of a modern Explorer, I think you will find many kindred spirits in the general discussion forum.

It's strange that we are getting an increasing number of threads like these recently, with OPs talking about how they're afraid to wear their vintage watches, because they are too worried about damage, loss, or theft, and want to discuss substitutes.

[logo]

Originally Posted by Dan S

This is the vintage forum, where most members love vintage watches and wear them daily. If you're concerned about wearing a vintage watch, and want to discuss the merits of a modern Explorer, I think you will find many kindred spirits in the general discussion forum.

It's strange that we are getting an increasing number of threads like these recently, with OPs talking about how they're afraid to wear their vintage watches, because they are too worried about damage, loss, or theft, and want to discuss substitutes.

Sorry, you must not have read my post at all. Let me quote the key section for you:

“This would be to wear in all scenarios, but especially in the mountains, ocean, water, snow etc - it'll be worn the way it was intended.”

At no point have I mentioned concern about wearing a 1016 from the late 80s for the above activities. Some posters here have, which I value and take into consideration. As a matter of fact, my own experience is that my father has worn an 80s Rolex daily for 40 years for the above activities. I have posted in the vintage section SPECIFICALLY to hear from 1016 owners on their recommendations and interestingly enough it’s not all pro-1016 posts. That’s the kind of discussion I want. If I wanted a pat on the back for a 124270 that could be done easily in the general section, as you discussed.

My apologies if this thread disturbs you, but for the life of me I can’t see why.

[MrBlobby]

Is it safe to be patted on the back whilst wearing a 1016?

[SAP7]

The Tudor Ranger is a pig of a watch.
Flatters to deceive.
It is bland, the texture and finishing is the same throughout the bracelet, and it appears dull and lifeless as a result. I was really impressed with the photo when I saw it, but it is a design fluff when you get one in your hand.
The 124270 is the opposite: the contrast of the shinier edges with the brushing, and the little touches on the dial make it pop and stand out on the wrist. The Ranger is a missed opportunity and it’s almost like they took all the “extras” off it to avoid it competing with the Rolex branded watches.
As for the actual question, your want list means you want the new one that’s going to be guaranteed and ten years to the next service.
Vintage is great, but like others have said it would suit a more conservative lifestyle.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by SAP7

The Tudor Ranger is a pig of a watch.
Flatters to deceive.
It is bland, the texture and finishing is the same throughout the bracelet, and it appears dull and lifeless as a result. I was really impressed with the photo when I saw it, but it is a design fluff when you get one in your hand.
The 124270 is the opposite: the contrast of the shinier edges with the brushing, and the little touches on the dial make it pop and stand out on the wrist. The Ranger is a missed opportunity and it’s almost like they took all the “extras” off it to avoid it competing with the Rolex branded watches.
As for the actual question, your want list means you want the new one that’s going to be guaranteed and ten years to the next service.
Vintage is great, but like others have said it would suit a more conservative lifestyle.

Disagree tbh. The original 70/80s Ranger is considered a fantastic watch.

The 2014 42mm and 2022 39mm 'Heritage' reissues are just that though (but I doubt that is what you mean as this is vintage section)..These reissues are a bit uninspiring and grossly oversized homage watches like the 42mm Black Bays and 2011 Heritage 42mm Monte Carlos!

I maintain the original is a lovely old thing (that Tudor collectors truly covet like a 7149/59/69 monte Carlo or 7016/9411 snowflake or 7924-28 small rose sub)...they are a little pricey now at £6-10k, and fakes (incl red writing) are flipping showing up everywhere it seems, like Rolex 5500 with Explorer dials

[blametony]

Originally Posted by SAP7

The Tudor Ranger is a pig of a watch.
Flatters to deceive.
It is bland, the texture and finishing is the same throughout the bracelet, and it appears dull and lifeless as a result. I was really impressed with the photo when I saw it, but it is a design fluff when you get one in your hand.
The 124270 is the opposite: the contrast of the shinier edges with the brushing, and the little touches on the dial make it pop and stand out on the wrist. The Ranger is a missed opportunity and it’s almost like they took all the “extras” off it to avoid it competing with the Rolex branded watches.
As for the actual question, your want list means you want the new one that’s going to be guaranteed and ten years to the next service.
Vintage is great, but like others have said it would suit a more conservative lifestyle.

I disagree. The newer Ranger at 39mm preserves a lot of the vintage charm that the 1016 presented albeit in a larger case. The modern Explorer is a little TOO modern for my liking. If you want a modern watch with the vintage appeal, I think the Ranger fits nicely in that category.

[logo]

May I ask everyone, where would you recommend sourcing a 1016? I’ve been keeping an eye on TRF trusted sellers, but are there any other web or brick and mortar businesses that are trusted with vintage timepieces? I do not have the skill or knowledge (yet) to do all the checks myself, so would rely heavily on a trusted seller.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by logo

May I ask everyone, where would you recommend sourcing a 1016? I’ve been keeping an eye on TRF trusted sellers, but are there any other web or brick and mortar businesses that are trusted with vintage timepieces? I do not have the skill or knowledge (yet) to do all the checks myself, so would rely heavily on a trusted seller.

There is an entire sticky thread on the topic:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=180461

[logo]

Originally Posted by Dan S

There is an entire sticky thread on the topic:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=180461

Terrific, thank you!

[Toronto Soup King]

Originally Posted by Dan S

There is an entire sticky thread on the topic:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=180461

Man, I wish I'd bought from one of those guys rather than ol' Christmas Tree down in NY. MUCH nicer watches! And just Mike Wood has two very good 1016s there. Sure they're pricier than mine was but I wouldn't have to go to the trouble of service, replacing dial and hands etc., those are all-original watches.

If I'm buying in future it'll be off that list. Great stuff.