Clueless vintage owner

[Clubber]

Hey everyone,

By pure chance, I met someone whom inherited a 6265 from his father (first owner) and wanted to let it go as it wasn't his style and never used it.

I inspected the watch to the best of my very limited knowledge and checked the serial number with the papers and once they matched, I pulled the trigger.

The only information he had from his father was that the watch had a dial replacement some 30+ years ago (hence the service dial)

I also sent the certificate number to my AD and they could only confirm the case and bezel matched but nothing else.

Searching through this forum and many other vintage sources, I established the watch as 1971 but couldn't gather any other infor regarding how original it is.

The watch has screw down pushers but also riveted bracelet. I know these vintage daytonas came in various combo's but I would like to learn as much as possible from the pro's here.

Here are a few photos, I would appreciate any constructive input.

Thanks in advance,

[seaway]

You want to know if the watch is original or want to get more information about this watch?

[Clubber]

Originally Posted by seaway

You want to know if the watch is original or want to get more information about this watch?

I know the watch is original. I only wish to borrow the wisdom of the pro's here about any mismatch parts, if any.

[linesiders]

I don't like the back of that crown. Not a service part 30 years ago, for certain.

I want to see engravings before commenting further.

[swish77]

Looks like a legit 6265 with a service dial and pushers, but need a closer look. Hands were probably replaced too, but tough to tell in the photos. Do the hands glow like the luminova on the dial?

BTW, the service dial was installed more recently than 30 years ago. Rolex wasn't using luminova service dials in the early '90s.

You mention a certificate. Do you mean the original Rolex guarantee paper? Would be interested to see it. What's the beginning of the serial number? Have you seen the movement?

As stated above, the crown looks different than I'd expect, but perhaps that's a more recent service item too. Here's the back of my late '70s 6263 with the original crown and pushers for comparison. Assuming your watch is post-1969, your movement should also be a 727.

[KY..]

Screw down pushers in ‘71 are different and agree with crown back comment.
Was it a great price since a period Big Red dial is super expensive if you ever want to change from the service dial?
There are other tritium dial options as well for the 6265.
https://www.vintagedaytona.com/en/re...Daytona%206265

[Clubber]

Thank you all for helping out a newbie.

Originally Posted by linesiders

I don't like the back of that crown. Not a service part 30 years ago, for certain.

I want to see engravings before commenting further.

Could you explain what you mean by not liking the back of the crown ? Something messed with, unoriginal , altered ?

Originally Posted by swish77

Looks like a legit 6265 with a service dial and pushers, but need a closer look. Hands were probably replaced too, but tough to tell in the photos. Do the hands glow like the luminova on the dial?

BTW, the service dial was installed more recently than 30 years ago. Rolex wasn't using luminova service dials in the early '90s.

You mention a certificate. Do you mean the original Rolex guarantee paper? Would be interested to see it. What's the beginning of the serial number? Have you seen the movement?

As stated above, the crown looks different than I'd expect, but perhaps that's a more recent service item too. Here's the back of my late '70s 6263 with the original crown and pushers for comparison. Assuming your watch is post-1969, your movement should also be a 727.

Yes, the hands glow like the luminova. Not super bright of course but they do glow.

By certificate I mean the serial number guarentee paper. It begins with 265xxx hence my assumption for the watch being a 1971 as many Vintage Rolex literature suggest.

I have seen the movement, it is a Valjoux 727. Needed a service though, chrono wasn't healthy. Runs like a champ now.

Originally Posted by KY..

Screw down pushers in ‘71 are different and agree with crown back comment.
Was it a great price since a period Big Red dial is super expensive if you ever want to change from the service dial?
There are other tritium dial options as well for the 6265.
https://www.vintagedaytona.com/en/re...Daytona%206265

It was a decent price, not a bargain. I believe my original dial was non Daytona but noone I asked could confirm till now. Some literature says my serial number had big red, some say all black, just cosmograph. Wish I knew so I could return to original. Even my AD couldn't find that one.

I would love to learn the full original spec of my watch so I could try to source those original items used or new and return her back to her "left the factory" condition.

Having said that, I love the way it looks as it is and my only complaint is the very thin and heavily tampered riveted bracelet.

Is there any other period correct bracelet that would look a bit less tampered and wider ? Maybe a 78350 with 571 endlinks ?

Lastly, I don't like how my endlinks look squeezed and not covering the side of the case properly :(

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Clubber

Thank you all for helping out a newbie.




Could you explain what you mean by not liking the back of the crown ? Something messed with, unoriginal , altered ?

All crowns, original and service, have the sheet metal crimped over the back of the crown except for the past few years. The rare 703 monoblock and the more common 704 monoblock are very recent service items.

Usually, smooth back, not crimped back, are aftermarket / fake crowns.

[TuRo]

Three bits of info pls.

Engravings both ends last 3 digits of serial obscured pls, and is the paperwork punched?

If so, photo of the non-cosc cert with the last three digits obscured.

Inner caseback and 727 calibre photo.

Small Red service dial looks ok from poor photo, where the quality of the printing is imho actually better on the service dials and the digits in subdials are totally different shape to the original big red. The value of of small red is under 2/3 of a big red of course.

Rgds P

[Clubber]

Originally Posted by linesiders

All crowns, original and service, have the sheet metal crimped over the back of the crown except for the past few years. The rare 703 monoblock and the more common 704 monoblock are very recent service items.

Usually, smooth back, not crimped back, are aftermarket / fake crowns.

Understood, would you happen to have a photo of the said crown so I can see the difference.

Originally Posted by TuRo

Three bits of info pls.

Engravings both ends last 3 digits of serial obscured pls, and is the paperwork punched?

If so, photo of the non-cosc cert with the last three digits obscured.

Inner caseback and 727 calibre photo.

Small Red service dial looks ok from poor photo, where the quality of the printing is imho actually better on the service dials and the digits in subdials are totally different shape to the original big red. The value of of small red is under 2/3 of a big red of course.

Rgds P

Thanks for the info. I have the paperwork and engraving shots but for the caliper photo, I have to visit my watchmaker again next week.

there you go, hope these help,

[alwayshere]

interesting thread - watching closely

[PVR]

Engravings fake, this watch is no good. I think the entire midcase and case back are aftermarket. Service dial, wrong/fake pushers. No good here..

[KY..]

Originally Posted by PVR

Engravings fake, this watch is no good. I think the entire midcase and case back are aftermarket. Service dial, wrong/fake pushers. No good here..

That sucks if true.
Dial had me concerned because of so much value tied to it.
Clearly the OP said he was ok with it and a bit new to vintage Rolex.
But now could it be a paper weight?

@Clubber you may want to do some detailed CSI checking on the entire watch including case, crown, papers, pushers, movement, hands, bracelet, etc etc.
Will you tell us how much you paid for it?

Posting here was a good start, and if you want to get to the bottom of it the watch has more questions/concerns.
Good luck!

[swish77]

Originally Posted by PVR

Engravings fake, this watch is no good. I think the entire midcase and case back are aftermarket. Service dial, wrong/fake pushers. No good here..

So, a legit service dial in a fake case? I wonder about the guarantee paper, if it's good and the case was made with those engavings to match the punched serial number? Quite elaborate, but plausible.

[Clubber]

Originally Posted by PVR

Engravings fake, this watch is no good. I think the entire midcase and case back are aftermarket. Service dial, wrong/fake pushers. No good here..

I appreciate anyone’s input on the watch as I asked for it BUT,

Making such a bold (fake) claim with “I think” comments isn’t hard evidence for me and tbh must be backed with solid information before stating on a public forum. Not to mention that the watch has been inspected by Rolex AD and approved as Real / Original.

My aim for this thread was/ is on the side of findings replaced part/s if any.

Also, I don’t think anyone would sacrifice an original service dial for a fake case and then try to find a warranty to match etc. Seems like a stretch.

Having said all that, I am all eyes and ears if anyone can pinpoint issues with specific photos/literature or comparison shots etc. to find any inconsistencies on the watch.

“I thinks” don’t cut it in my case.

[Dan S]

I’m not sure it’s plausible to expect experts to spend tons of time educating you by posting lengthy detailed explanations. Many people don’t even like to advertise the specific flaws. If someone raises a doubt, and your research tells you that person is knowledgeable, then the ball is in your court to do your own research.

[Clubber]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I’m not sure it’s plausible to expect experts to spend tons of time educating you by posting lengthy detailed explanations. Many people don’t even like to advertise the specific flaws. If someone raises a doubt, and your research tells you that person is knowledgeable, then the ball is in your court to do your own research.

You are perfectly right if the claim was regarding a tiny detail over the entire watch BUT if you label a watch
“Fake, no good” then one would expect a bit more info.
I am not asking for “tons of time” to he educated.

Just a few examples like, “engravings should have this font but yours have this” or “the warrantie paper should have xx seal but yours doesn’t. Etc.

Otherwise this whole thread becomes a case of “your word against mine” situation and we get nowhere and find no answers.

Is that too much to ask on a “discussion forum” ?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Clubber

You are perfectly right if the claim was regarding a tiny detail over the entire watch BUT if you label a watch
“Fake, no good” then one would expect a bit more info.
I am not asking for “tons of time” to he educated.

Just a few examples like, “engravings should have this font but yours have this” or “the warrantie paper should have xx seal but yours doesn’t. Etc.

Otherwise this whole thread becomes a case of “your word against mine” situation and we get nowhere and find no answers.

Is that too much to ask on a “discussion forum” ?

You're free to think that way if it makes you happy. But personally, I would be doing my own research and contacting some experts. Many people don't like to call out specifics.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Clubber

Just a few examples like, “engravings should have this font but yours have this” or “the warrantie paper should have xx seal but yours doesn’t. Etc.

Back in the '70s, the engravings lacked the precision of today's standards, of course, and there were variations even from the factory. However, in this case, the engravings don't look right, starting with the positioning of the words above the reference and serial numbers. They're too close to the top. There are also differences in the font and spacing.

See below for an example of authentic engravings. Plenty of other examples can be found online.

[TuRo]

Hi Clubber.

Actually, using a 'cheap' legit dial as a basis for building a wrong-un is not that uncommon tbh.

Eg A loose small red dials are about £4-4.5k in UK, as people take them out when they find an original big red or sigma dial, and then resell them to recoup some of the cost of £14 -15k big red or sigma).

I know you tried to contact me after I PM'ed you.... I'd really suggest if you want absolute certainty to follow my advice - take you 3 mins to register and photo uploads are a piece of pi##).

Rgds Paul

[KY..]

Originally Posted by TuRo

I'd really suggest if you want absolute certainty to follow my advice - take you 3 mins to register and photo uploads are a piece of pi##). Rgds Paul

@Clubber,
We don’t have to know exactly what @TuRo suggested to you, but do yourself a favor and follow it up…

[Clubber]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Hi Clubber.

Actually, using a 'cheap' legit dial as a basis for building a wrong-un is not that uncommon tbh.

Eg A loose small red dials are about £4-4.5k in UK, as people take them out when they find an original big red or sigma dial, and then resell them to recoup some of the cost of £11-15k big red or sigma).

I know you tried to contact me after I PM'ed you.... I'd really suggest if you want absolute certainty to follow my advice - take you 3 mins to register and photo uploads are a piece of pi##).

Rgds Paul

Hello Paul. Thanks for the valuable input. Of course nothing is impossible in todays crazy market.

I did use tapatalk and send him a messege and now waitin for an answer rather anxiously :)

[alwayshere]

Remember none of us owe you anything so being courteous and polite here goes a long way.

We get plenty of people coming here trying to test their fakes so that’s why we are often guarded in revealing too much.

If Paul and PVR say there is issues with this watch. There probably is. Why don’t you give it the Rolex for their inspection if you are truly adamant in getting to the bottom of this.

[Clubber]

Originally Posted by swish77

Back in the '70s, the engravings lacked the precision of today's standards, of course, and there were variations even from the factory. However, in this case, the engravings don't look right, starting with the positioning of the words above the reference and serial numbers. They're too close to the top. There are also differences in the font and spacing.

See below for an example of authentic engravings. Plenty of other examples can be found online.

This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Thank you for the detailed information. Truly appreciated.

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Remember none of us owe you anything so being courteous and polite here goes a long way.

We get plenty of people coming here trying to test their fakes so that’s why we are often guarded in revealing too much.

If Paul and PVR say there is issues with this watch. There probably is. Why don’t you give it the Rolex for their inspection if you are truly adamant in getting to the bottom of this.

I tried to be as polite and courteous as I can with my replies even when my watch has been buried to ground :)

One thing I didn’t consider before this thread that these hints / clues could be used in counterfeit production. So, I now understand the secrecy.

I am planning a trip to Geneva next month and hopefully will find a vintage expert and borrow his/her wisdom.

Thabk you all for the feedback.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Why don’t you give it the Rolex for their inspection if you are truly adamant in getting to the bottom of this.

And Rolex means Rolex ... not an AD.

[cht]

Originally Posted by Clubber

Hey everyone,

By pure chance, I met someone whom inherited a 6265 from his father (first owner) and wanted to let it go as it wasn't his style and never used it.

I inspected the watch to the best of my very limited knowledge and checked the serial number with the papers and once they matched, I pulled the trigger.

The only information he had from his father was that the watch had a dial replacement some 30+ years ago (hence the service dial)

I also sent the certificate number to my AD and they could only confirm the case and bezel matched but nothing else.

Searching through this forum and many other vintage sources, I established the watch as 1971 but couldn't gather any other infor regarding how original it is.

The watch has screw down pushers but also riveted bracelet. I know these vintage daytonas came in various combo's but I would like to learn as much as possible from the pro's here.

Here are a few photos, I would appreciate any constructive input.

Thanks in advance,

I assume you got scammed here, this story would make me skeptical in the first place…a stranger you don’t know selling a high dollar item to someone he just met?

…there any way to recovery your money?

[rootbeer7]

OP clearly not the outcome you wanted. The experts who have commented come from all sides of the world. Listen to their advice. Do some more research, but unfortunately it won’t change the facts.

[Clubber]

Originally Posted by Dan S

And Rolex means Rolex ... not an AD.

Will do.

Originally Posted by cht

I assume you got scammed here, this story would make me skeptical in the first place…a stranger you don’t know selling a high dollar item to someone he just met?

…there any way to recovery your money?

I wasn't turned off by the backstory honestly. 50+ year old watch would have some life, right ? Also, the seller wasn't a stranger, it's just I didn't know he had a watch like that.

Money can be asked back but before going that route, I need to do more digging.

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

OP clearly not the outcome you wanted. The experts who have commented come from all sides of the world. Listen to their advice. Do some more research, but unfortunately it won’t change the facts.

For sure, no one wants to be scammed.

I thought posting here and asking for help would be a part of that research but I was schooled rather than educated.

The messages are clear and but the tone is very unpleasant.

[rootbeer7]

OP I’m sure no one meant to offend. Being international & using a single language doesn’t always help.
But, let’s just say you aren’t honest. Let’s pretend you have full knowledge of what is pictured. By going in depth in every detail, we’d only help to create better fake pieces to the detriment of collectors everywhere.

[77T]

The thing that strikes me as odd is how clean the steel appears between the lugs. For a watch that old, I’d expect to see some lateral marks from the bracelet end links.

I agree with the comments suggesting that the Watch be sent to RSC - you mentioned the movement was serviced for you by someone but only the RSC can give you a clear view of what parts might not be proper.


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