How much is too much??

[Atl]

All,
As a Rolex lover since my first one at 18 y.o., I have loved and treasured each one I have had the pleasure to own. But putting aside the economy, I really am disheartened by the absurd prices Rolex is charging, and will naturally jack up further at the next chance they get. I envision $10,000.00 SS Sub Dates very soon, as well as GMT's, and Explorers. The SS Daytona is $250.00 away now. I feel I am drawing a line in the sand. There is no way I would pay $10,000.00 for any SS Rolex. Period. Am I the only one? I had no idea the SS Daytona was $9750.00 right now, and as I lusted for one for years, and was offered one recently (they seem to be easy to buy now) I declined. Just too much money. I had the money, but I could not do it.
I don't feel remorse, there was just no way I would pay that much for a watch (in all honesty) I felt was not worth it. It just is not, in my opnion.

What say you?????

[MortgageGuy]

I would disagree. The watch will bring whatever the market will bear, just like a house, boat... When the ecomony does come back (from this so called recession) the watch market wil again come back but perhaps this will take some time. I believe the prices will continue to increase for new Rolex. Call me crazy and perhaps I am in the minority but I dont think $10k is completely out of line for a SS Sub... Look at houses/cars...they continue to climb as well (or will again in the future). Rolex isnt going to just raise the price for the hell of it. To me 10k for a watch that will last a lifetime is not bad even if it is SS. Top that with the fact that should your taste change and you sell it you can practically get your money back out of it in 10 years??? Also get to wear and enjoy it all that time??? Again, does not sound too bad for me.

The economy is everyones excuse for everything...mostly trying to steal whatever it is your selling. Recession, what recession? If 10k is too much, you can always look at other brands. I in fact think it will be a good thing as there are way too many Rolex out and about today and hiking the price will be good for the exclusivity of the brand... Hope everyone doesnt hate me for saying this.

[Strut99GT]

Originally Posted by MortgageGuy

I would disagree. The watch will bring whatever the market will bear...

While I agree with you, because this is simply fact, I believe the spirit of what the OP was asking was, "where is the line where the market will no longer bear it?" I think a $10,000 stainless steel watch is just silly, and there is certainly no chance I'd consider it - but hey, if the greater market keeps swiping them up, kudos to Rolex. I've never understood the Daytona in general, honestly, in light of the Speedmaster.

[Ck8]

Originally Posted by MortgageGuy

I would disagree. The watch will bring whatever the market will bear, just like a house, boat... When the ecomony does come back (from this so called recession) the watch market wil again come back but perhaps this will take some time. I believe the prices will continue to increase for new Rolex. Call me crazy and perhaps I am in the minority but I dont think $10k is completely out of line for a SS Sub... Look at houses/cars...they continue to climb as well (or will again in the future). Rolex isnt going to just raise the price for the hell of it. To me 10k for a watch that will last a lifetime is not bad even if it is SS. Top that with the fact that should your taste change and you sell it you can practically get your money back out of it in 10 years??? Also get to wear and enjoy it all that time??? Again, does not sound too bad for me.

The economy is everyones excuse for everything...mostly trying to steal whatever it is your selling. Recession, what recession? If 10k is too much, you can always look at other brands. I in fact think it will be a good thing as there are way too many Rolex out and about today and hiking the price will be good for the exclusivity of the brand... Hope everyone doesnt hate me for saying this.

I think Rolex has priced themselves out of the market especially for alot of people who are genuine watch lovers. It would be ashame if, in the future, only affordable to the affluent few who wear Rolex as a status symbol. House prices have increased in the UK before the recesion and now alot of people have gone into negative equity. As for cars, white goods, computers, clothing and food these have not gone up at the same rate as Rolex. The prices we pay now we are getting so much more for our money. For example I bought a 26" LCD TV 3years ago for £600 but recently I bought a 40" HD LCD Sony for the same price. Whereas 4 years ago I bought a SS Daytona for £3670 and 2 years ago I another for £4420 and now it is at £6170.
The only good thing about Rolex putting up the prices are the secondhand watches have gone up as well. So those who bought already would benefit.

[Singslinger]

A great and lively discussion!

To me, the main messages from the discussion are that value is in the eye of the beholder, perceived scarcity/rarity is a component in determining that value but sometimes, emotions can supercede perceptions of value (or lack thereof).

In Rolex's case, there are some watch fans who are unhappy with the value they see the brand offering vis-a-vis price and so might be switching their allegiance to other luxury brands.

It's all good to me - everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be left to decide where they want to spend their money. I'm happy with the value, image, utility and after-sales service Rolex offers but I can appreciate that others may not share that view.

[Bebot]

Originally Posted by Atl

I had no idea the SS Daytona was $9750.00 right now,

What say you?????

Well, it's actually $9925.00. So for $9750.00, they are giving you a $175.00 discount.

But hey, I hear what you saying. $10k for a SS watch is a lot of money.

[Cosmographer]

Well, Daytonas are costly and 10,000 is a lot of $ ---but I can tell you, I've had mine for 20 years and its worth 10 times what it originally sold for ($3,800)--I was offered nearly $40k last year--during the recession. Not too bad of an investment.

take care,
Cosmo.

[scottschoe]

Originally Posted by Atl

All,
As a Rolex lover since my first one at 18 y.o., I have loved and treasured each one I have had the pleasure to own. But putting aside the economy, I really am disheartened by the absurd prices Rolex is charging, and will naturally jack up further at the next chance they get. I envision $10,000.00 SS Sub Dates very soon, as well as GMT's, and Explorers. The SS Daytona is $250.00 away now. I feel I am drawing a line in the sand. There is no way I would pay $10,000.00 for any SS Rolex. Period. Am I the only one? I had no idea the SS Daytona was $9750.00 right now, and as I lusted for one for years, and was offered one recently (they seem to be easy to buy now) I declined. Just too much money. I had the money, but I could not do it.
I don't feel remorse, there was just no way I would pay that much for a watch (in all honesty) I felt was not worth it. It just is not, in my opnion.

What say you?????

Agreed (unless it's some vintage piece). I bought a Daytona at MSRP and thankfully I was still able to flip it @profit this year when I realized what I could put the cash towards. Everything is getting too overpriced - just add a few more dollars and choices are blown wide open.

[sushisummo]

Life is to short.......enjoy it while you can. If you have the money it does not matter how much a watch/car and other toys cost. Do what make you happy.
Live life to the fullest every second/minute/hour/day/week/month and etc......

[Singslinger]

It's all relative, ie you can't look at prices in isolation. Yes, thousands of dollars is a lot of money, but in the world of luxury watches and relative to other brands that produce their own movements such as Patek Philippe, Lange & Sohne, Panerai, Blancpain, Breguet, Vacheron Constantin, AP and so forth, I think Rolex is very reasonably priced.

The MRSP on the Daytona for example, is almost the same as Panerai's Daylight but although both are chronographs, IMO the Daytona offers much better value for money with a highly-regarded inhouse movement compared to the Valjoux 7750 inside the Panerai.

Blancpain's 50 Fathoms and Patek's Aquanaut cost twice as much as the Rolex Sub and are more expensive than the Deepsea yet they perform the same functions - ie they are all dive watches.

You can buy an entry-level Rolex (eg the no-date Air-King) brand-new for around US$3,500; I don't believe any other Swiss manufacturer that makes its own movement can match that price on any of its models (the entry-level Panerai with its own movement is around US$6,500).

So yes, if viewed in isolation Rolex is expensive. But when compared to the rest of the segment it operates in - ie brands with genuine inhouse movements - it is competitively priced.

A final note: a lot of people fail to account for the excellent and cheap after-sales service Rolex provides. A routine Rolex servicing in Singapore costs about US$350 - which in my view, is very reasonable when you consider that it costs at least 3 times as much to tune-up a Patek or Lange.

[mike]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

It's all relative, ie you can't look at prices in isolation. Yes, thousands of dollars is a lot of money, but in the world of luxury watches and relative to other brands that produce their own movements such as Patek Philippe, Lange & Sohne, Panerai, Blancpain, Breguet, Vacheron Constantin, AP and so forth, I think Rolex is very reasonably priced.

The MRSP on the Daytona for example, is almost the same as Panerai's Daylight but although both are chronographs, IMO the Daytona offers much better value for money with a highly-regarded inhouse movement compared to the Valjoux 7750 inside the Panerai.

Blancpain's 50 Fathoms and Patek's Aquanaut cost twice as much as the Rolex Sub and are more expensive than the Deepsea yet they perform the same functions - ie they are all dive watches.

You can buy an entry-level Rolex (eg the no-date Air-King) brand-new for around US$3,500; I don't believe any other Swiss manufacturer that makes its own movement can match that price on any of its models (the entry-level Panerai with its own movement is around US$6,500).

So yes, if viewed in isolation Rolex is expensive. But when compared to the rest of the segment it operates in - ie brands with genuine inhouse movements - it is competitively priced.

A final note: a lot of people fail to account for the excellent and cheap after-sales service Rolex provides. A routine Rolex servicing in Singapore costs about US$350 - which in my view, is very reasonable when you consider that it costs at least 3 times as much to tune-up a Patek or Lange.

Excellent summation.

[gmtobsessed]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

It's all relative, ie you can't look at prices in isolation. Yes, thousands of dollars is a lot of money, but in the world of luxury watches and relative to other brands that produce their own movements such as Patek Philippe, Lange & Sohne, Panerai, Blancpain, Breguet, Vacheron Constantin, AP and so forth, I think Rolex is very reasonably priced.

The MRSP on the Daytona for example, is almost the same as Panerai's Daylight but although both are chronographs, IMO the Daytona offers much better value for money with a highly-regarded inhouse movement compared to the Valjoux 7750 inside the Panerai.

Blancpain's 50 Fathoms and Patek's Aquanaut cost twice as much as the Rolex Sub and are more expensive than the Deepsea yet they perform the same functions - ie they are all dive watches.

You can buy an entry-level Rolex (eg the no-date Air-King) brand-new for around US$3,500; I don't believe any other Swiss manufacturer that makes its own movement can match that price on any of its models (the entry-level Panerai with its own movement is around US$6,500).

So yes, if viewed in isolation Rolex is expensive. But when compared to the rest of the segment it operates in - ie brands with genuine inhouse movements - it is competitively priced.

A final note: a lot of people fail to account for the excellent and cheap after-sales service Rolex provides. A routine Rolex servicing in Singapore costs about US$350 - which in my view, is very reasonable when you consider that it costs at least 3 times as much to tune-up a Patek or Lange.

[diablojota]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

It's all relative, ie you can't look at prices in isolation. Yes, thousands of dollars is a lot of money, but in the world of luxury watches and relative to other brands that produce their own movements such as Patek Philippe, Lange & Sohne, Panerai, Blancpain, Breguet, Vacheron Constantin, AP and so forth, I think Rolex is very reasonably priced.

The MRSP on the Daytona for example, is almost the same as Panerai's Daylight but although both are chronographs, IMO the Daytona offers much better value for money with a highly-regarded inhouse movement compared to the Valjoux 7750 inside the Panerai.

Blancpain's 50 Fathoms and Patek's Aquanaut cost twice as much as the Rolex Sub and are more expensive than the Deepsea yet they perform the same functions - ie they are all dive watches.

You can buy an entry-level Rolex (eg the no-date Air-King) brand-new for around US$3,500; I don't believe any other Swiss manufacturer that makes its own movement can match that price on any of its models (the entry-level Panerai with its own movement is around US$6,500).

So yes, if viewed in isolation Rolex is expensive. But when compared to the rest of the segment it operates in - ie brands with genuine inhouse movements - it is competitively priced.

A final note: a lot of people fail to account for the excellent and cheap after-sales service Rolex provides. A routine Rolex servicing in Singapore costs about US$350 - which in my view, is very reasonable when you consider that it costs at least 3 times as much to tune-up a Patek or Lange.

The only caveat to your point here is that Rolex produces 10x -100x the numbers that these other producers do. And here in the US service on the Rolex is closer to 500. While the other brands may be more expensive to service, going back to the low numbers, the parts made for them are also in lower quantities, not allowing for the economies of scale to take effect, hence increasing the cost per part.

Rolex, at this point, has pretty much priced me out of being interested in the brand anymore in terms of buying new, and it is in large part because of how many of these things they produce. They no longer create the value for the premium they charge. As a result, I am looking more toward other brands, such as Panerai, Blancpain, Glashuette, etc.

Just my opinion.

[NDP3]

Originally Posted by diablojota

Rolex, at this point, has pretty much priced me out of being interested in the brand anymore in terms of buying new, and it is in large part because of how many of these things they produce. They no longer create the value for the premium they charge. As a result, I am looking more toward other brands, such as Panerai, Blancpain, Glashuette, etc.

Just my opinion.

I tend to agree. As the prices on SS versions increase, I am looking more towards Blancpain and AP. Both brands are far more unique and rarity is a factor for me when you're paying that much money.

I think that rolex designs are classic and timeless, and I think they fill the $5k to $10k range perfectly. Obviously prices will increase, but I will be sad to see them increase at a greater rate than other brands.

[Atl]

Originally Posted by diablojota

The only caveat to your point here is that Rolex produces 10x -100x the numbers that these other producers do. And here in the US service on the Rolex is closer to 500. While the other brands may be more expensive to service, going back to the low numbers, the parts made for them are also in lower quantities, not allowing for the economies of scale to take effect, hence increasing the cost per part.

Rolex, at this point, has pretty much priced me out of being interested in the brand anymore in terms of buying new, and it is in large part because of how many of these things they produce. They no longer create the value for the premium they charge. As a result, I am looking more toward other brands, such as Panerai, Blancpain, Glashuette, etc.

Just my opinion.

THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL !! EXCELLENT POST!

The value for the premium they charge. I should have said that.

Bravo!

[Deep Sea]

When I bought my first (modern) automatic watch, I thought $1850 was too much to spend, so I asked my wife to get me the $1500 watch (this was 2002).

A few years later I got the itch again and drew the line in the sand at $2000 (this was 2007).

Six months later I bought the first Rolex at $5000 (gasp!).

One month later I bought two Rolex, one for me, one for the wife, and paid a combined $12,000.

One more month, along comes a GMT IIC, at $5300 (woo-hoo, a discount!).

You see the pattern.

I never thought I would spend $5K on a SS automatic watch, but have since gone into the $7,000 range for a single purchase. I haven't reached the $10K mark, but I can see it won't be that far off.

If you are buying it to enjoy it, as a hobby, or simply to wear it until the end of time, only you can attach a value (and hence a budget) to your purchase.

Although I have a tidy sum of $$ tied up in watches, some have special meaning (gifts, milestones in life, etc), and others are there because I like them. In the end, the $$ is what I spend on my hobby, much like others will go fishing or collect stamps or play golf.

In the end, it's all good.

[Changmaisausage]

Quote from watch magazine (Aug 09) Rolex Rated Top Watch Brand.

Rolex brand increased 35% in 2009 to 5.3billion$ Rolex watches are like an investment, it's like gold; people flee to Rolexes.

Keep em long enough

[landroverking]

I buy cars now that cost more than my first house. My first SS GMT was $550. (1978)

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by landroverking

I buy cars now that cost more than my first house. My first SS GMT was $550. (1978)

Haha! Exactly!

Think of it this way, by 2030 you can drink your sorrows away after spending $10,000 on you sub with a $75 bottle of beer.

[Lion]

Price is relative to what you define as being important or a priority in your life. Hobbies by nature are usually expensive but the joy and satisfaction received are immeasurable. If $10,000.00 is too expensive then by all means use your money elsewhere. There is no right or wrong answer here so do what ever makes you happy!!!

[Numismatist]

Odd balance Rolex has to make:

The more available they are to the masses, the less exclusive they feel.

Who (other than die-hard TRF fans) wants a Rolex if they are commonly available at reasonable prices? The fascination of the masses is that Rolex is just out of reach...

That's why, I believe, they keep raising prices - intentionally trying to price the masses out of the market to keep that special feel of exclusivity.

"I have something that you can't afford" <- it's a draw for the millions that purchase them. Only us die-hard Rolex fans understand the watches to be horologically significant, an art form, and technical wonders.

imho

[Atl]

Originally Posted by Lion

Price is relative to what you define as being important or a priority in your life. Hobbies by nature are usually expensive but the joy and satisfaction received are immeasurable. If $10,000.00 is too expensive then by all means use your money elsewhere. There is no right or wrong answer here so do what ever makes you happy!!!

It's not the expense, or being expensive, it's the value. I do feel like I am getting my money's worth. An example: my Jeager LeCoultre SS Grande Talle Reverso, it's price has not changed much in the last 10 years. Manual wind, in house movement, lots of hand finishing, stunning watch. I feel it was worth every penny. I feel the new Deepsea Sea Dweller is worth it's price tag for the awesome technology to go so deep, but the rest of the SS line of watches, I do not feel the value is there.
I thought the Daytona was always priced a bit more than the Subs and GMTs, maybe 10 years ago. Now it's double a Sub's price?? Why? I maintain the Zenith movement was every bit as good, and well finished as the new Rolex movement (maybe better?), so why the huge price difference now? Other than the improved bracelet, and in house movement, it's the same as it was 15 years ago.

I agree the value is in the resale, and I have never lost any money on a Rolex, except one time (a Datejust) but I am still dismayed at the ever increasing prices for an basically the same watch. Does this make sense?

Another example: a Bugatti Veyron at $1.2 Million is worth it's price, it actually cost Volkswagen about $3 Million to build one. The Lamborghini Reventon, a tarted up Murcielago, is not worth $1.5 Million, but like Rolex, they sold every one. There, that's as close as I can get to explaining what I am trying to say.

[diablojota]

Originally Posted by Atl

Another example: a Bugatti Veyron at $1.2 Million is worth it's price, it actually cost Volkswagen about $3 Million to build one. The Lamborghini Reventon, a tarted up Murcielago, is not worth $1.5 Million, but like Rolex, they sold every one. There, that's as close as I can get to explaining what I am trying to say.

This is a bad example with the Reventon. Of course it can command the 1.5 mil premium. Updated gauge cluster, engine, etc. They produced 20 of the standard Reventon and 10 of the Roadster version... There is definitely a market for that.

Rolex plays in much bigger numbers.

[dalip]

Never regret flying business when I have - could have been more pragmatic and spent the money elsewhere.(my Dad's voice) ... my two Rolex (both bought this month - I am hooked ) - were never pragmatic choices - and I love both of them. They are a real cut above - and they make me feel great. in my view: life is too short. All about heart and passion for me -

[cajun_one]

If you are talking about the physical amount of goods you receive for what you pay then yes I would agree. I would say you are investing in a good that will hold or gain in value that most people will never be able to afford. It is to me an object that represents a very proud sense of achievement and hopefully my son will feel that way when I pass it down to him.

[deserted]

Originally Posted by cajun_one

If you are talking about the physical amount of goods you receive for what you pay then yes I would agree. I would say you are investing in a good that will hold or gain in value that most people will never be able to afford. It is to me an object that represents a very proud sense of achievement and hopefully my son will feel that way when I pass it down to him.

It's an investment , i flipped out when i found out how much my wife paid for my TT black sub , but after joining the forum i got some serious insight that this watch will go up in value as the years goes on, I even went out and purchased a SS daytona , paid 8500usd for it and the return value over the next several years will pay off handsomely.

If not my son will benefit from it, but it's truly an investment.

[pz93c]

I'm out.

I buy used.

[daytona1]

Originally Posted by pz93c

I'm out.

I buy used.

x2

[fujisan]

"It's all relative, ie you can't look at prices in isolation. Yes, thousands of dollars is a lot of money, but in the world of luxury watches and relative to other brands that produce their own movements such as Patek Philippe, Lange & Sohne, Panerai, Blancpain, Breguet, Vacheron Constantin, AP and so forth, I think Rolex is very reasonably priced.

The MRSP on the Daytona for example, is almost the same as Panerai's Daylight but although both are chronographs, IMO the Daytona offers much better value for money with a highly-regarded inhouse movement compared to the Valjoux 7750 inside the Panerai.

Blancpain's 50 Fathoms and Patek's Aquanaut cost twice as much as the Rolex Sub and are more expensive than the Deepsea yet they perform the same functions - ie they are all dive watches.

You can buy an entry-level Rolex (eg the no-date Air-King) brand-new for around US$3,500; I don't believe any other Swiss manufacturer that makes its own movement can match that price on any of its models (the entry-level Panerai with its own movement is around US$6,500).

So yes, if viewed in isolation Rolex is expensive. But when compared to the rest of the segment it operates in - ie brands with genuine inhouse movements - it is competitively priced.

A final note: a lot of people fail to account for the excellent and cheap after-sales service Rolex provides. A routine Rolex servicing in Singapore costs about US$350 - which in my view, is very reasonable when you consider that it costs at least 3 times as much to tune-up a Patek or Lange."



Well Said on the mark.

[Art 1]

It's good that you know what you want.