Help with vintage Rolex Oyster Perpetual Date

[Paul Allen's Rolex]

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can help me with this particular model. I'm abroad and have been offered this, but it will require some difficult travel to get there. The thing I'm wondering about is its particular configuration. I've not seen any others with the white dial and gold indexes that weren't two tones. I'm therefore unsure if it may have been modified in some way or cloned.

[Dan S]

These entry-level pieces were often modified based on the owner's preference. It doesn't have a huge affect on value.

[Bxtek]

Sorry, I'm not an expert with vintage and I really cannot offer much info. However, looking at that piece, it's obviously an older model. That bracelet is looking a little too crisp? I noticed in the backside, they are solid links. Maybe an expert can chime in, but I thought it would be folded links on an older ref like that? Aftermarket or incorrect later model bracelet?

Also, that box is fake, so that may be a warning sign?

[Paul Allen's Rolex]

Thanks, both. Yes, it will be a very old model. The few that he has are all at least 30 years old, I estimate. Two other ones are definitely genuine, and I'm in a very obscure area in the M.E where I doubt people would have much access to fakes or modifications. He did say that there's no box or papers with it, so I presume the box in the photo was just for show.

[TuRo]

Could be a repainted dial (post 63 if orig. as T Swiss T) and the 78350 bracelet is post 1976.

[offrdmania]

The watch either started as a 2-tone (dont know without knowing the model number) or it was modified with a dial and hands from a 2-tone or gold watch. Parts are plentiful for these watches so no big deal if the price is right to make room for the correct parts.

[Paul Allen's Rolex]

Thanks all. The more I'm reading, the more I'm certain it has definitely been changed quite significantly. Not worth the journey for the price, I think. There's a few other cool pieces I'm looking at so I'll share them if the time comes.

[CJS57]

A very pretty watch anyway.

[joe100]

Lordy ,I hate when advice gets doled out around here and it’s completely wrong.

That watch was fine, it’s a 15010 and many came with all stainless but with gold indices on the dial with gold hands.

Back before the early 2000s or so, many of the non-sport models could be ordered in just about any configuration you could think of, and Rolex shipped many from the factory to the ADs in this exact configuration as factory standard.

Even on the sport models, different bracelets could be specified, even a Sub bracelet could be fitted to just about anything it would fit on. Even the 14270 shipped in the early days with a dive extension.

I think the lesson to learn here is that if one doesn’t immediately know the reference number and production dates just by looking at the watch, one probably shouldn’t comment on the threads like this.

[TuRo]

Fair point indeed ...

Loads of 60/70s 34mm 6426/6694 gold indices and hands are full stainless pieces too.

Yes, looks early/mid 80s.

My possible repaint comment was based on concern that from that very poor photo the minute markers looked bit short/uneven length, but all the font spacings are spot on so unlikely.

T Swiss T and 78350 period and correct.

This one exactly the same config, might be the ops, if he's 'essere in vacanza' in Italy perhaps :-)

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Date
£3,652
https://chrono24.app/rolex/rolex-oys...GB&SETCURR=GBP

[joe100]

There is nothing in the photo that leads me to think the dial has been refinished, it’s just a poor photo. Better photos would put that to rest, but nothing indicates anything is wrong there.

I think the biggest problem I have here is the speculation. No one above knew the answer and they gave their opinions anyway, and it put this fellow off a perfectly fine watch. No one even knew the reference number. All of the information about these watches, airkings, dates, OPs, datejusts etc are all right here in this forum. Old Rolex catalogs are another great source of information, they show all of the dials available at the time for each model. Most scans of those can be found here as well.

The older threads around here, say before 2017 are full of actual knowledge, and not this nonsense we see posted most days. People actually discussed watches and the knowledge built up in the older threads is amazing. Far more engaging than “I got the call” threads with all of the replies being “congrats”.

I just hope something was learned. Just because one has never seen something doesn’t mean it wasn’t so, and that modern Rolex operates entirely differently than Rolex of the 20th century.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by joe100

There is nothing in the photo that leads me to think the dial has been refinished, it’s just a poor photo. Better photos would put that to rest, but nothing indicates anything is wrong there.

I think the biggest problem I have here is the speculation. No one above knew the answer and they gave their opinions anyway, and it put this fellow off a perfectly fine watch. No one even knew the reference number. All of the information about these watches, airkings, dates, OPs, datejusts etc are all right here in this forum. Old Rolex catalogs are another great source of information, they show all of the dials available at the time for each model. Most scans of those can be found here as well.

The older threads around here, say before 2017 are full of actual knowledge, and not this nonsense we see posted most days. People actually discussed watches and the knowledge built up in the older threads is amazing. Far more engaging than “I got the call” threads with all of the replies being “congrats”.

I just hope something was learned. Just because one has never seen something doesn’t mean it wasn’t so, and that modern Rolex operates entirely differently than Rolex of the 20th century.

Agree with most of that, except that it's not all incoming piece/congrats, what you wearing today type stuff here these days.

In the last month alone, I've seen impressive forensic analysis and expertise and help on Space Dwellers, GMT bezel inserts, 7924 Big Crown, a dubious manual wind Daytona etc etc... every bit as good as the old days of VRF and TRF imho. Rgds P

[KY..]

Originally Posted by joe100

There is nothing in the photo that leads me to think the dial has been refinished, it’s just a poor photo. Better photos would put that to rest, but nothing indicates anything is wrong there.

I think the biggest problem I have here is the speculation. No one above knew the answer and they gave their opinions anyway, and it put this fellow off a perfectly fine watch. No one even knew the reference number. All of the information about these watches, airkings, dates, OPs, datejusts etc are all right here in this forum. Old Rolex catalogs are another great source of information, they show all of the dials available at the time for each model. Most scans of those can be found here as well.

The older threads around here, say before 2017 are full of actual knowledge, and not this nonsense we see posted most days. People actually discussed watches and the knowledge built up in the older threads is amazing. Far more engaging than “I got the call” threads with all of the replies being “congrats”.

I just hope something was learned. Just because one has never seen something doesn’t mean it wasn’t so, and that modern Rolex operates entirely differently than Rolex of the 20th century.

Thanks Joe.
I totally understand your thoughts and position as one of the old guard and I agree to a point.
I do remember seeing these watches as a kid with the gold hands and crown on SS and thought they looked great.
My fascination became more evident once I got old enough to hold and purchase my own mechanical watches as a hobby.

I remember seeing a post earlier this year where the comment was something to the tune of “TRF is subjective and VRF is objective”, or there bouts.
Maybe that’s fair in the eyes of some, and quite unfair to others.
But both forums are quite helpful when used with respect to the trade.

I got to sit on the sidelines here over ten years under a different user name that got lost in the shuffle, and can definitely confirm I have learned a lot here like most folks.
But I also have unique experiences and exposure and tech access that may be of help to someone.

That said I’d think it’s better to try and help a fellow watch enthusiast with honest intent and enough information to absorb for possible decision making, instead of ignore them and wait for 1 or 2 specific experts that may or may not chime in.

I assume everyone who responded did so in good faith and the information, whether right or wrong, was in-fact free and should be discerned.

[Paul Allen's Rolex]

Thanks, everyone. Checking in again and catching up with the more recent comments. Discussion is great and thankfully the option to purchase is still there.

I would also like better photos but unfortunately I'll need to wait until I view the watches in person. There's a language barrier issue and also the country I'm in is affected by active conflict in areas still.

I will meet the dealer in question hopefully later in the month. He has some very interesting pieces including a two-tone OysterQuartz and a 16013 DateJust. I just couldn't find anything resembling this one's particular configuration and the dial looked a bit too pristine!

[springer]

Originally Posted by KY..

Thanks Joe.
I totally understand your thoughts and position as one of the old guard and I agree to a point.
I do remember seeing these watches as a kid with the gold hands and crown on SS and thought they looked great.
My fascination became more evident once I got old enough to hold and purchase my own mechanical watches as a hobby.

I remember seeing a post earlier this year where the comment was something to the tune of “TRF is subjective and VRF is objective”, or there bouts.
Maybe that’s fair in the eyes of some, and quite unfair to others.
But both forums are quite helpful when used with respect to the trade.

I got to sit on the sidelines here over ten years under a different user name that got lost in the shuffle, and can definitely confirm I have learned a lot here like most folks.
But I also have unique experiences and exposure and tech access that may be of help to someone.

That said I’d think it’s better to try and help a fellow watch enthusiast with honest intent and enough information to absorb for possible decision making, instead of ignore them and wait for 1 or 2 specific experts that may or may not chime in.

I assume everyone who responded did so in good faith and the information, whether right or wrong, was in-fact free and should be discerned.

.................................................. .................................................. ......

I did not agree at all with the following comment about TRF mentioned above - I remember seeing a post earlier this year where the comment was something to the tune of “TRF is subjective and VRF is objective”, or there bouts. Maybe that’s fair in the eyes of some, and quite unfair to others.

Many of us saw this comment elsewhere on the net and just spaced it off for what it was - inappropriate and inaccurate. There are many contributors here on TRF that provide very helpful and useful information.

[offrdmania]

I hope that jab wasnt towards me Joe, ive been around just as long and until we know the model number, we are all just guessing.

[joe100]

What I was getting at is that if one doesn’t know the reference, they probably shouldn’t speculate. The watch was 100% fine, correctly configured, opinions were given, and they were off.