5140P-010 (Grey) vs Keeping 5146G-010 (grey)

[Rolexfax33]

Hi Everyone,

After years of chasing vintage sport (dive) watches, a trip to Japan last year changed everything for me. While I was actually just looking for a PP Calatrava, I came across a 5146G grey dial and my heart stopped. Add to the fact that my son was just about to be born and I decided to get it to try an pass down to him later. (My wife laughed out loud when I said this and well, she may have been right).

While the 5146 is a great mix of formal and casual, after living with the watch for a few months, a few things started to bother me. The lume and the 12-3-9. The lume bothering me is odd considering I spent so much time with dive watches but on an Patek complications, it seems a bit off (although quite handy).

Anyways, I wasn't really looking for anything in particular and then I came across the 5140P (grey dial)...and I have the opportunity to get one. The circumstances are *almost right. But let's talk about those circumstances.

1) I'd be trading 4 watches (including the 5146) for the 5140P + adding some cash. These 4 watches were grails to me at one point or another but I barely wear them anymore. But the thought of 4 + cash is a little crazy to me. Watches in question are:

• 1680
• 1960s Blancpain FF No Rad
• Blancpain Hodinkee FF Bathycaphe
• 5146G

2) The seller and I seem to be at a stalemate, with the seller refusing to go down an additional $4k for me to accept. This seems crazy to me considering they would be receiving four watches of mine, none of them which need a service, all in amazing condition and at a trade-in price where they'll make quite a buck reselling.

They also refuse to give me more on my trades.

What I find funny about this - they have it listed on a site where if it sold, they'd have to pay a commission. That commission would reduce the price of the watch down to what I'm willing to pay for it, but they still refuse to go that low for a done deal with me.

Am I not thinking about this correctly? Some different POVs would be great.

3) I'm in Canada and they are not. I'm not eager to have the watch shipped so I'd have to fly to them to pick up..which also poses a challenge for me at customs. I really don't want to deal with duties and taxes, so I'd be taking quite a risk.

Given all these factors, would you even bother trying to get the 5140P?

I still like the 5146 but as someone else said in another forum - getting the 5146 will just make you wish you had the 5140.

I dunno, I guess I'm looking to be talked into doing this...while also being talked out of it.

#firstworldproblems

[jon_jon]

A few questions to consider:

1) Is the other party an individual or a dealer? If it is an individual, he/she may not really want your non-Patek watches and it may be extra work for him/her to sell those watches.

2) What is it about the 5140P that you really like? Have you considered other Patek PCs? Does this watch include the Patek winder box and a second solid caseback? If missing either or both, the trade value will be lower.

3) Is it an option for the other individual to travel to Toronto and do business in Canada? That may be a negotiation point to consider.

I own both the 5146G and 5140P and they are both great watches in different ways. The thing with the Patek journey is that after owing a Patek perpetual calendar, you may want a perpetual calendar chronograph soon afterwards

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

A few questions to consider:

1) Is the other party an individual or a dealer? If it is an individual, he/she may not really want your non-Patek watches and it may be extra work for him/her to sell those watches.

2) What is it about the 5140P that you really like? Have you considered other Patek PCs? Does this watch include the Patek winder box and a second solid caseback? If missing either or both, the trade value will be lower.

3) Is it an option for the other individual to travel to Toronto and do business in Canada? That may be a negotiation point to consider.

I own both the 5146G and 5140P and they are both great watches in different ways. The thing with the Patek journey is that after owing a Patek perpetual calendar, you may want a perpetual calendar chronograph soon afterwards

Thanks for the response.

The seller is a dealer and a very well known one at that. I'd prefer to have dealt with the owner but currently speaking with a sales associate.

I guess the 5140P is just a classic and I suspect will continue to be for quite a while. The 5146 does seem more "laid back" but what also does it for me about the PC is the grey dial. This being said, the watch I'm looking at is a full set.

As for wanting something else after, I tell myself I won't, I can't. I know, lol. But I've owned so many watches, bought and sold over time most things kind of bore me now and while the really up there pieces are attainable, I just don't see myself spending that kind of money on a watch.

I just can't get around the idea they're nickel and diming me while I'm also giving them 4 very desirable watches.

[Phrank]

5140 definitely a nice piece, tried it on, beautiful...but another "round" watch, and my DD is in that "dress" category and size.

Then I saw this at a Toronto store, I believe it is the same movement as the 5140, pics make it look a tad small on my wrist ( my wrist is 19cm/7.5inch but it wore larger than my DD 36) but this threw a wrench into the Patek I actually went down to try - the 5135.

This is the Patek 5040 Perpetual Calendar....kinda rocked my world lol, so unique, and it threw me back into decision mode, as this watch was spectacular, really loved it and keep flip-flopping....

IIRC, quite reasonably priced as well compared to the 5140p.

Anyhow, just trying to toss out some ideas, hope this helps and good luck.

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by Phrank

5140 definitely a nice piece, tried it on, beautiful...but another "round" watch, and my DD is in that "dress" category and size.

Then I saw this at a Toronto store, I believe it is the same movement as the 5140, pics make it look a tad small on my wrist ( my wrist is 19cm/7.5inch but it wore larger than my DD 36) but this threw a wrench into the Patek I actually went down to try - the 5135.

This is the Patek 5040 Perpetual Calendar....kinda rocked my world lol, so unique, and it threw me back into decision mode, as this watch was spectacular, really loved it and keep flip-flopping....

IIRC, quite reasonably priced as well compared to the 5140p.

Anyhow, just trying to toss out some ideas, hope this helps and good luck.

Funny, I've also considered a Cartier Monopoussoir Tortue...but it's just a different thing in my mind.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Phrank

5140 definitely a nice piece, tried it on, beautiful...but another "round" watch, and my DD is in that "dress" category and size.

Then I saw this at a Toronto store, I believe it is the same movement as the 5140, pics make it look a tad small on my wrist ( my wrist is 19cm/7.5inch but it wore larger than my DD 36) but this threw a wrench into the Patek I actually went down to try - the 5135.

This is the Patek 5040 Perpetual Calendar....kinda rocked my world lol, so unique, and it threw me back into decision mode, as this watch was spectacular, really loved it and keep flip-flopping....

IIRC, quite reasonably priced as well compared to the 5140p.

Anyhow, just trying to toss out some ideas, hope this helps and good luck.

Yes, it has the 240Q movement, same as the 3940 and 5140.

[gm58]

Originally Posted by Rolexfax33

Hi Everyone,

After years of chasing vintage sport (dive) watches, a trip to Japan last year changed everything for me. While I was actually just looking for a PP Calatrava, I came across a 5146G grey dial and my heart stopped. Add to the fact that my son was just about to be born and I decided to get it to try an pass down to him later. (My wife laughed out loud when I said this and well, she may have been right).

While the 5146 is a great mix of formal and casual, after living with the watch for a few months, a few things started to bother me. The lume and the 12-3-9. The lume bothering me is odd considering I spent so much time with dive watches but on an Patek complications, it seems a bit off (although quite handy).

Anyways, I wasn't really looking for anything in particular and then I came across the 5140P (grey dial)...and I have the opportunity to get one. The circumstances are *almost right. But let's talk about those circumstances.

1) I'd be trading 4 watches (including the 5146) for the 5140P + adding some cash. These 4 watches were grails to me at one point or another but I barely wear them anymore. But the thought of 4 + cash is a little crazy to me. Watches in question are:

• 1680
• 1960s Blancpain FF No Rad
• Blancpain Hodinkee FF Bathycaphe
• 5146G

2) The seller and I seem to be at a stalemate, with the seller refusing to go down an additional $4k for me to accept. This seems crazy to me considering they would be receiving four watches of mine, none of them which need a service, all in amazing condition and at a trade-in price where they'll make quite a buck reselling.

They also refuse to give me more on my trades.

What I find funny about this - they have it listed on a site where if it sold, they'd have to pay a commission. That commission would reduce the price of the watch down to what I'm willing to pay for it, but they still refuse to go that low for a done deal with me.

Am I not thinking about this correctly? Some different POVs would be great.

3) I'm in Canada and they are not. I'm not eager to have the watch shipped so I'd have to fly to them to pick up..which also poses a challenge for me at customs. I really don't want to deal with duties and taxes, so I'd be taking quite a risk.

Given all these factors, would you even bother trying to get the 5140P?

I still like the 5146 but as someone else said in another forum - getting the 5146 will just make you wish you had the 5140.

I dunno, I guess I'm looking to be talked into doing this...while also being talked out of it.

#firstworldproblems

Seems a bit of a lopsided trade to me 4 +cash for 1. The 1960s FF No Rad surely is worth quite a bit? Might be worthwhile to try to sell some yourself to raise the cash.

Definitely 5140 > 5146 but that price differential is a lot

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by gm58

Seems a bit of a lopsided trade to me 4 +cash for 1. The 1960s FF No Rad surely is worth quite a bit? Might be worthwhile to try to sell some yourself to raise the cash.

Definitely 5140 > 5146 but that price differential is a lot

It is and I'm actually (kinda) okay with it. The only watch in the group of four I'm really hesitant to let go of is the 1960s No Rad. It's the smaller one at 37-38mm but it took me so long to find it and the sheer rarity of it really gives me pause.

Having said that, the no rad isn't in the realm of the 40-41mm version, so it's less desirable and goes for less money.

I've considered just selling them one by one but being in Canada, I'm faced with cross-border issues and the private market here just isn't focused on the watches I have. Our customs department now also requires special forms to be filled out on high value shipments, which I hear is rather easy to do but it's also just another pain to deal with.

I used to buy and sell cross border all the time but with the watch market exploding and hearing about all these scams going on, I'm a bit hesitant to privately sell these watches.

Having said this - the only watch I think that would really scare me to sell privately is the 5146.

[gm58]

Originally Posted by Rolexfax33

It is and I'm actually (kinda) okay with it. The only watch in the group of four I'm really hesitant to let go of is the 1960s No Rad. It's the smaller one at 37-38mm but it took me so long to find it and the sheer rarity of it really gives me pause.

Having said that, the no rad isn't in the realm of the 40-41mm version, so it's less desirable and goes for less money.

I've considered just selling them one by one but being in Canada, I'm faced with cross-border issues and the private market here just isn't focused on the watches I have. Our customs department now also requires special forms to be filled out on high value shipments, which I hear is rather easy to do but it's also just another pain to deal with.

I used to buy and sell cross border all the time but with the watch market exploding and hearing about all these scams going on, I'm a bit hesitant to privately sell these watches.

Having said this - the only watch I think that would really scare me to sell privately is the 5146.

Oh what kind of no-rad is it? Would it be those aqualung ones? Civilian versions that came in 37mm (instead of the 41mm), personally I feel that the 37mm wears a lot better than the 41mm due to the long lungs on the 41

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by gm58

Oh what kind of no-rad is it? Would it be those aqualung ones? Civilian versions that came in 37mm (instead of the 41mm), personally I feel that the 37mm wears a lot better than the 41mm due to the long lungs on the 41

Yes, it's similar to the Aqualung ones but with a dotted dial. Took me forever to find this and I've only ever seen one other for sale. As i'm writing this, I'm almost talking myself out of trading it lol

[gm58]

Originally Posted by Rolexfax33

Yes, it's similar to the Aqualung ones but with a dotted dial. Took me forever to find this and I've only ever seen one other for sale. As i'm writing this, I'm almost talking myself out of trading it lol

That is a beauty! Havent this size in person, the 41mm ones wear really big with the long lugs

[SoylentGreenChi]

I think your plan to consolidate into a 5140 makes all the sense in the world. The question, then, is about logistics and implementation. I think you politely walk from this current offer, and keep shopping for a 5140. Also, you may need to sell your watches separately from the 5140 deal. Final thought: why not a non platinum 5140.

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by SoylentGreenChi

I think your plan to consolidate into a 5140 makes all the sense in the world. The question, then, is about logistics and implementation. I think you politely walk from this current offer, and keep shopping for a 5140. Also, you may need to sell your watches separately from the 5140 deal. Final thought: why not a non platinum 5140.

The only reason why I prefer the platinum is the grey dial. Honestly, couldn't care less about which metal was used. If only there was a 5140G with a grey dial!

[ts3]

I very much like the idea of getting a 5140P grey for a 5146G grey but a 4 + cash for 1 cross border trade sounds complex.

Personally, I wouldn't want to get a 60k or 70k watch sight unseen. Then there are likely import tax implications both ways no matter if you ship to and fro or travel there in person. What is the deal with getting them your watches if you don't go there? Will you ship them for inspection and if they are not satisfied they will renegotiate / the deal will fall apart?

I don't know if the implied valuations make sense but the likely dealer in question has been lowering their asking prices on a number of Pateks step by step lately. In some cases up to 20% total, such as 5975P. Not saying they'll have to drop the price on the 5140P grey by as much but why not walk, watch their asking price for a month or two, and see if they become more amenable? The downside seems limited - 5140s don't tend to fly off the shelf and if this 5140P grey were to go there will be another one soon enough.

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by ts3

I very much like the idea of getting a 5140P grey for a 5146G grey but a 4 + cash for 1 cross border trade sounds complex.

Personally, I wouldn't want to get a 60k or 70k watch sight unseen. Then there are likely import tax implications both ways no matter if you ship to and fro or travel there in person. What is the deal with getting them your watches if you don't go there? Will you ship them for inspection and if they are not satisfied they will renegotiate / the deal will fall apart?

I don't know if the implied valuations make sense but the likely dealer in question has been lowering their asking prices on a number of Pateks step by step lately. In some cases up to 20% total, such as 5975P. Not saying they'll have to drop the price on the 5140P grey by as much but why not walk, watch their asking price for a month or two, and see if they become more amenable? The downside seems limited - 5140s don't tend to fly off the shelf and if this 5140P grey were to go there will be another one soon enough.

Basically, they send me a shipping label and I send it to them. I've wondered about the tax implications for them but that's also not my problem. I considered giving another dealer in the US one of my watches to sell on consignment and when I asked about the tax implications for them, they just said not to worry about it. There must be some kind of trick to this. The only way I know of accomplishing this kind of thing is to mark it as a repair or return but do that enough times and I'm sure customs catches on.

Waiting for the price to drop may be my best course of action. There's actually a better deal out there but the issue is they won't take my trades b/c the watch their selling is on consignment.

The only reason for my "rush" to purchase is that from my perspective, the 5140P does not come up for sale often.

[ChetBaker]

The downside to playing the waiting game will be that the trade-in value of your 4 watches may go down as well and you end up paying the same amount of cash-up.

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

The downside to playing the waiting game will be that the trade-in value of your 4 watches may go down as well and you end up paying the same amount of cash-up.

Exactly.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

The downside to playing the waiting game will be that the trade-in value of your 4 watches may go down as well and you end up paying the same amount of cash-up.

The likely dealer in question tends to price their incoming Pateks very high and then starts dropping the price almost weekly until someone bites. This hasn't always been the case but it is how they keep stuff moving in this market.

On the 5140P grey they have just started to adjust their aggressive initial pricing and the watch got 4k cheaper already. OP can still walk if they were to unreasonably ask for a corresponding haircut on the trade-ins.

[myk7000]

Personally a fan of consolidation in general, especially if you have fallen out of love with some of your pieces. I imagine though that the 5140p after all is said and done wouldn't be the only watch in your collection, correct? I'd want to keep around at least 1 sport watch.

Anyhow, as to the particular deal - seems complicated and perhaps not the best value. Also, seems like this is an opportunistic purchase, as you "came across" it. Easier said than done to just sit and wait it out, given the iron is hot, but I'd personally hold off and truly make sure the 5140p is the watch you want.

It's possible you start thinking "ahh... is a perpetual really worth that much over annual?" Or "maybe I'd prefer the more modern 5327 or older iconic 3940" or "do I really want another gray dial replacement?" And if you just rushed into it, you may not have had time to reconcile with those potential feelings coming up.

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by myk7000

Personally a fan of consolidation in general, especially if you have fallen out of love with some of your pieces. I imagine though that the 5140p after all is said and done wouldn't be the only watch in your collection, correct? I'd want to keep around at least 1 sport watch.

Anyhow, as to the particular deal - seems complicated and perhaps not the best value. Also, seems like this is an opportunistic purchase, as you "came across" it. Easier said than done to just sit and wait it out, given the iron is hot, but I'd personally hold off and truly make sure the 5140p is the watch you want.

It's possible you start thinking "ahh... is a perpetual really worth that much over annual?" Or "maybe I'd prefer the more modern 5327 or older iconic 3940" or "do I really want another gray dial replacement?" And if you just rushed into it, you may not have had time to reconcile with those potential feelings coming up.

Thanks for the good advice!

I have to admit, the 5140 font sizing and the lack of a seconds hand does bother me a little. But on the other hand, I've always wanted a micro-rotor as well. Almost pulled the trigger on a Laurent Ferrier in Japan but couldn't reconcile the price with features.

[MILGAUSS88]

AP and VC have some nice platinum perpetual calendars for half the price, if you are willing to look past Royal Oak or Overseas.

[Rolexfax33]

Well, I did the deal and just received the 5140P yesterday.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and advice!

While I'm loving it, to anyone who's considering doing something similar...

I kinda miss the presence of the 5146G. It's really strange that this is the case because I generally don't care about wrist presence at all. I also miss the power reserve indicator and really oddly, the 12-3-9 and even the lume....all things that irked me before. lol

Here's my take on the main difference:

The 5146G looks more modern and maybe even more casual. It can be dressed up or dressed down easily.

The 5140P is dainty by comparison and while it can definitely be dressed up or down, the elegance of it can't be easily hidden.


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[jgottsman11]

Originally Posted by Rolexfax33

Well, I did the deal and just received the 5140P yesterday.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and advice!

While I'm loving it, to anyone who's considering doing something similar...

I kinda miss the presence of the 5146G. It's really strange that this is the case because I generally don't care about wrist presence at all. I also miss the power reserve indicator and really oddly, the 12-3-9 and even the lume....all things that irked me before. lol

Here's my take on the main difference:

The 5146G looks more modern and maybe even more casual. It can be dressed up or dressed down easily.

The 5140P is dainty by comparison and while it can definitely be dressed up or down, the elegance of it can't be easily hidden.


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Post a pic! And we’ll also be waiting for the incoming of the next 5146 based on this post lol

[Rolexfax33]

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

Post a pic! And we’ll also be waiting for the incoming of the next 5146 based on this post lol

Lol not gonna lie, I woke up to the thought of - so when am I gonna get the 5146 again?


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[jgottsman11]

Originally Posted by Rolexfax33

Lol not gonna lie, I woke up to the thought of - so when am I gonna get the 5146 again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Amazing dial

[vitalsigns]

Congrats. Looks like a perfect size for your wrist. Give it some time. I suspect you'll appreciate the slimness compared to the 5146 as time goes on.

[subtona]

5140 is last of the best PCs the replacement for the iconic 3940.
Personally I settled on the 5940, the cushion case version. To me the 5940 brings it to the next level. Slightly but significantly different than the 5040 above.
The cushion case has been used in some of the imho most exceptional watches made by Patek. Specifically the 3670 and the 5950.

And as said it is amazing that at this time these PC watches can be had at significant discount.

As far as what you are offering for trade, the blancpains are difficult to move. The 1680 is cool and would probably be better in your collection.

The 5146 is not quite as thin and it’s not quite as complicated as the 5140/5940/3940.

Imho any of these 5140/5940/3940 are end pieces that can be worn as a daily and be a part of any collection (large or small and no matter the value)


Ps that gray dial is solid!

[Vasco]

Congratulations! That's a very nice 5140 model I've tried myself in the past. It must be something with any grey straps as well.

[Jmaster]

Congratulations.

I have the exact 5146G with grey dial and has been thinking of moving up to a PC. Reading your post on this trade is not helping.

[Gollv0]

In my case it's the other way round, I just love the color combination of the gray strap and the dial without numarals of the platinium version, however I like the leighter weight of the 5146G..