Is my 5712/1A Real?

[pereiraex]

Bought this from a grey market dealer somewhere in Southeast Asia for a decent price (not the typical trusted dealers like DavidSW etc.) - basically almost a no-name dealer somewhere in the region

Could folks compare with their genuine 5712s and let me know if anything looks remotely off?

Full album linked below

https://imgur.com/a/6dbRlo4

[EUguy]

I am not an expert but the first thing I notice is that the ‘E’ and the ‘V’ on the clasp are connected and are lacking space in between them. Isn’t that odd as all other letters are not connected?

Edit: looked it up on Google pictures and apparently this is something that is common in the clasp.

[ts3]

I cannot compare directly but I don't see anything that throws me off. The clasp looks like it should and just like that same clasp on my 5711 I got new from AD.

I'd likely get the watch serviced at Patek to make sure everything checks out 100% and to give it a fresh start with years of worry free ownership to look forward to. The cost will be on the order of CHF 1000 plus tax bar any negative surprises. I have done the same after impulse purchasing a Patek from a tiny dealer I hadn't had a chance to do much diligence on. The added peace of mind has been well worth it.

[TunaTuna]

Doesn't look right at all

[piratfisk]

Not a Patek expert, but I stopped reading after:

Bought this from a grey market dealer somewhere in Southeast Asia for a decent price (not the typical trusted dealers like DavidSW etc.)

Truly hope this is a troll post & not someone who thought they were getting the deal of the century on a microrotor PP.

[GB-man]

Looks janky. Pics are trash though.

[77T]

The photos don't compare well with another Nautilus for sale on the forum. For that reason I suggest to get it to PP for a service quote and all will be known then.

After all, it could be stolen or in dire need of service.

That's the true test of "real".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sungsam8025]

Legit

[ndirish2001]

The movement looks good to me. It has several relatively sophisticated features that aren’t common in fakes—namely, a free-sprung hair spring and ceramic bearings for the micro-rotor. Do you have the papers?

[APhound]

Sorry you’re feeling this way about it.
Did the deal seem too good to be true? What were the circumstances? Do you live there? Do you know anything about these guys? I’m sure you’ve heard this, but you buy the seller..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mickyd329]

Looks legit to me, just looks like poor polishing.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Looks legit to me, just looks like poor polishing.

X2

The edge on the bezel between the satin finish and polished finish does not look crisp.

Satin finish on crown guards does not look straight.

[pereiraex]

Thanks all for taking the time to look at the photos (apologies I know my picture taking is trash)

For context, the watch came as a full set with matching boxes and original papers. I got this from a fairly well known (at least online and to a domestic audience) but regional (think Thailand, Indonesia) grey market dealer in one of the capital cities. This wasn’t a steal by any means and after a lot of haggling I still paid slightly in excess of 100k USD for a fairly recent dated set.

I was going to bring it to a Patek service centre as soon as I can and will keep the folks here posted. Unless I’m mistaken, it looks like the overall consensus is that it’s legitimate but polishing is lacking. I’m not sure if that’s a result of the bad photo taking since the watch was represented as being unpolished, but in either case a genuine watch which was polished is a whole lot of a better pill to swallow then a replica.

[norcalgt3]

Originally Posted by pereiraex

Thanks all for taking the time to look at the photos (apologies I know my picture taking is trash)

For context, the watch came as a full set with matching boxes and original papers. I got this from a fairly well known (at least online and to a domestic audience) but regional (think Thailand, Indonesia) grey market dealer in one of the capital cities. This wasn’t a steal by any means and after a lot of haggling I still paid slightly in excess of 100k USD for a fairly recent dated set.

I was going to bring it to a Patek service centre as soon as I can and will keep the folks here posted. Unless I’m mistaken, it looks like the overall consensus is that it’s legitimate but polishing is lacking. I’m not sure if that’s a result of the bad photo taking since the watch was represented as being unpolished, but in either case a genuine watch which was polished is a whole lot of a better pill to swallow then a replica.

The going rate for a old stock / mint 5712 is around 93k by reputable dealers online via Moda (ones with a physical retail location even) and other groups (less if older like 2008 or in worn condition). The only ones commanding higher at around 100k are those with the new clasp and in brand new condition. Other dealers like DavidSW are extremely overpriced.

I'm not sure this was a great deal unless this was the new clasp.

Like others said however, if you got this for $75k with papers, I'd be more worried. Pics look legitimate to me.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by norcalgt3

The going rate for a old stock / mint 5712 is around 93k by reputable dealers online via Moda (ones with a physical retail location even) and other groups (less if older like 2008 or in worn condition). The only ones commanding higher at around 100k are those with the new clasp and in brand new condition. Other dealers like DavidSW are extremely overpriced.

I'm not sure this was a great deal unless this was the new clasp.

Like others said however, if you got this for $75k with papers, I'd be more worried. Pics look legitimate to me.

You probably wouldn’t get a dealer to give you 75k. But I agree regarding retail price.

Hey as long as it’s real I doubt you went in thinking it was the cheapest available worldwide. People buying 100k watches on a whim are somewhat price indifferent.

[7sins]

Originally Posted by norcalgt3

The going rate for a old stock / mint 5712 is around 93k by reputable dealers online via Moda (ones with a physical retail location even) and other groups (less if older like 2008 or in worn condition). The only ones commanding higher at around 100k are those with the new clasp and in brand new condition. Other dealers like DavidSW are extremely overpriced.

I'm not sure this was a great deal unless this was the new clasp.

Like others said however, if you got this for $75k with papers, I'd be more worried. Pics look legitimate to me.

I believe he said this was a newer year 5712, the older ones are going for sub 100k but if the watch is within ~ 5-7 years then that would have been a good deal at ~$100k.

[Flex368]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Satin finish on crown guards does not look straight.

That was my first thought looking at the pictures.

[Ichiran]

Not sure which replica has anglage and shock protection in the movement.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Not sure which replica has anglage and shock protection in the movement.

That’s not the concern. There’s fakes that plop in legit movements. The Facebook groups are littered with them. They call it “aftermarket case and bracelet.”

It’s probably not that but given the poor photos and details who is to say.

Seeing as OP now stated he has the full set and gave us more details it’s probably not the case. Still I have questions about a lot of what’s visible on the dial side. Is the crystal damaged or what’s distorting the patek phillipe text on the dial?

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by GB-man

That’s not the concern. There’s fakes that plop in legit movements. The Facebook groups are littered with them. They call it “aftermarket case and bracelet.”

It’s probably not that but given the poor photos and details who is to say.

You have a fair point. I now recall an episode of Roman's video talking about stripping movements from Calatrava and use them in manufactured Nautilus case.

[pereiraex]

Originally Posted by GB-man

That’s not the concern. There’s fakes that plop in legit movements. The Facebook groups are littered with them. They call it “aftermarket case and bracelet.”

It’s probably not that but given the poor photos and details who is to say.

Seeing as OP now stated he has the full set and gave us more details it’s probably not the case. Still I have questions about a lot of what’s visible on the dial side. Is the crystal damaged or what’s distorting the patek phillipe text on the dial?

All fair questions, I took a look at my watch today again in person and I suspect the smudge above on the Patek Philippe text is a compression / camera artifact from digitally zooming in or a piece of dust. It looks pristine in person (retaken photo below - I swear its the exact same watch!)



Still happy to hear if anything looks off on the dial. (I'm secretly learning from everyone here how to build a Patek super clone factory of my own /s)

Cheers

[robertengel]

The watch was cheap because it was repaired/refinished poorly. Does not look fake but beaten up. Not sure if it's an artefact due to compression but the dial where the Patek and Geneve text sit looks like it was repaired by hand. The bezel has indentations still and the case is polished. My concern looking at it is that it was serviced by a butcher. Fixing these issues will likely bring the total cost in line with one bought from someone like David SW

[brandrea]

I hope it turns out well OP

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by pereiraex

decent price

What specifically is the decent price you paid?

The 5712/1A is near an international commodity, able to be easily liquidated quickly (at the right price). So the dealer would have no incentive to give you a genuinely great price.

E.g., if you paid US$75K for the watch, I'd be worried.

[pereiraex]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

What specifically is the decent price you paid?

The 5712/1A is near an international commodity, able to be easily liquidated quickly (at the right price). So the dealer would have no incentive to give you a genuinely great price.

E.g., if you paid US$75K for the watch, I'd be worried.

I made an additional post above with context but I paid slightly north of US100k

[ars1g09]

im 99% confident this is real/legitimate.

[MILGAUSS88]

Well there are 31 Llstings on Chrono24, under $100,000, for the 5712A. Including one from Govberg/1916Co, so not just small time dealers.
So I would not say that you bought it suspiciously cheap.

The market has been trending down on these for quite some time.

[np2016]

Send it in to Patek for a servicing. For a 100k there are a lot of reputable other places you could have purchased from like milgauss88 said.

[ChetBaker]

Why though buy a watch from a seller that makes you question its authenticity for a price that is no better than what a 100% reliable dealer would have offered it for?

[codecow]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Why though buy a watch from a seller that makes you question its authenticity for a price that is no better than what a 100% reliable dealer would have offered it for?

It looks right to me but exactly this.

Why even mess with people when there is a question?

Nobody needs a deal on a $100k watch, you don’t need the watch in the first place. Not in the market for one of these as I sold mine a long time ago (to DavidSW) so I don’t know what they go for, but I’d just pay the extra and go with a TS if there is a delta and then not worry about it.