Are you ok with "Swiss made" watches having Chinese-made parts?

[Cru Jones]

Following a recent thread in the Omega section, I thought to have a general discussion....

The situation: you are contemplating a new watch that qualifies as "Swiss made" under Swiss manufacturing rules, but it turns out that some parts are made in China (for example, the watch case, the bracelet and/or the sapphire glass).

So, what do you think about this? Will you still buy the watch?

Reply to the poll and share your (non-political, please) thoughts below.

[ChetBaker]

Nope. There’s many reasons why I would not but primarily it would be for China’s manufacturing reputation for mass produced, low cost and low quality.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Nope. China’s manufacturing reputation is for mass produced low cost and low quality. [....] Buy local.

Thanks for contributing, but I think this is an interesting question and hope to keep politics out of this thread or getting this thread locked....

[ChetBaker]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Thanks for contributing, but I think this is an interesting question and hope to keep politics out of this thread or getting this thread locked....

Question clarified - my response edited. Thanks.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Question clarified - my response edited. Thanks.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by 1William

I prefer if something says it is made in a place that is where it is made. No Swiss Made and parts from China.

Originally Posted by brandrea

This is a very interesting question.

As an owner of brand that’s rumored to have parts or materials sourced from China, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a bit disappointed.

I guess my preference would be that a Swiss made watch would be made 100% in Switzerland and parts not sourced elsewhere.

I’m certain there is a huge rabbit hole of things that “could” come from outside the country in other brands if you go deep enough… but the main components like bracelets, cases, etc …. Yes I think I’d prefer knowing they are produced in Switzerland.

This is where I'm at, too.... But, I really wish we could have clarity on this question, other than if more than 60% comes from Switzerland, it's "Swiss made".

I mean, if everyone but Patek source significant parts from China, then that's the reality and it isn't much of an issue (IMHO).

[ChetBaker]

Edited.

[brandrea]

I think the question is crystal clear and agree we should keep politics out of it.

[1William]

I prefer if something says it is made in a place that is where it is made. No Swiss Made and parts from China.

[brandrea]

This is a very interesting question.

As an owner of brand that’s rumored to have parts or materials sourced from China, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a bit disappointed.

I guess my preference would be that a Swiss made watch would be made 100% in Switzerland and parts not sourced elsewhere.

I’m certain there is a huge rabbit hole of things that “could” come from outside the country in other brands if you go deep enough… but the main components like bracelets, cases, etc …. Yes I think I’d prefer knowing they are produced in Switzerland.

[GB-man]

No

[winst]

It certainly is interesting, and begs the question are these watches Swiss ‘Made’ or is a more accurate description Swiss ‘Assembled’.

[adamegret]

It depends on the pricing. If they use parts from China that are cheaper, then I would want them to pass the cost savings onto me as well. So if they were using Chinese parts from the start, the MSRP should be lower from the beginning. If they switch from all or mostly Swiss parts but keep the same price, then we have a problem.

[omar-rye]

"Swiss Made" doesn’t mean all parts and/or raw materials are sourced from or made in Switzerland. We’re talking about things like screws here. Some of Omega’s bracelet parts could be made in Asia (not confirmed), and the leather straps on a Patek are made in Italy, yet both are still Swiss Made. Do you think the diamonds Rolex uses were mined in Switzerland? What about the meteorite? Any buyer should know that there’s a chance up to 39% of their Swiss Made watch was sourced from somewhere else - even if it's a Rolex.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

"Swiss Made" doesn’t mean all parts and/or raw materials are sourced from or made in Switzerland. We’re talking about things like screws here. Some of Omega’s bracelet parts could be made in Asia (not confirmed), and the leather straps on a Patek are made in Italy, yet both are still Swiss Made. Do you think the diamonds Rolex uses were mined in Switzerland? What about the meteorite? Any buyer should know that there’s a chance up to 39% of their Swiss Made watch was sourced from somewhere else - even if it's a Rolex.

I think a distinction can be made between screws, diamonds and leather straps, and watch cases, metal bracelets and clasps (the former being less of an issue than the latter).

Considering watches don't cost a lot to manufacture (relative to their price), allowing 39% of costs attributable to manufacturing (not even the source material, like gold) to come from outside of Switzerland allows for a very wide range of watch parts to come from a place like China.

As for leather straps being made in France or Italy, those countries have a long history of producing luxurious leather goods (more so than Switzerland), so I'm not surprised that Patek would source their straps from those countries. I would however be surprised if my €80k Patek has a leather strap manufactured in Wuhan or Saigon, for example.

[Bazil]

Toblerone chocolate will no longer feature the distinctive Matterhorn mountain peak on its packaging in order to avoid violating a Swiss law that protects national symbols, as the brand's owner shifts some production out of Switzerland.
As Swiss heritage, I’m very protective over this, to be precise, question states ‘Swiss-Made’, therefore if Swiss Made then everything should be Swiss …

[Cru Jones]

Here is what qualifies a watch as being "Swiss made" according to the the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH (https://www.fhs.swiss/eng/whoweare.html):

"Art. 1a Definition of the Swiss watch

A watch is to be regarded as a Swiss watch if:

a. its technical development has taken place in Switzerland;

1. in the case of exclusively mechanical watches, at least the mechanical
construction and prototyping of the watch as a whole,

2. in the case of watches that are not exclusively mechanical, at least the
mechanical construction and prototyping of the watch as a whole, together
with the conception of the printed circuit or circuits, the display and the
software;

a bis. its movement is Swiss;

b. its movement has been cased up in Switzerland;

c. final inspection by the manufacturer took place in Switzerland and

d. at least 60% of the manufacturing costs is generated in Switzerland"

(https://www.fhs.swiss/file/8/Guide_FH_v.5_en.pdf)

[Cru Jones]

(duplicate post)

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Here is what qualifies a watch as being "Swiss made" according to the the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH (https://www.fhs.swiss/eng/whoweare.html):

"Art. 1a Definition of the Swiss watch

A watch is to be regarded as a Swiss watch if:

a. its technical development has taken place in Switzerland;

1. in the case of exclusively mechanical watches, at least the mechanical
construction and prototyping of the watch as a whole,

2. in the case of watches that are not exclusively mechanical, at least the
mechanical construction and prototyping of the watch as a whole, together
with the conception of the printed circuit or circuits, the display and the
software;

a bis. its movement is Swiss;

b. its movement has been cased up in Switzerland;

c. final inspection by the manufacturer took place in Switzerland and

d. at least 60% of the manufacturing costs is generated in Switzerland"

(https://www.fhs.swiss/file/8/Guide_FH_v.5_en.pdf)

When reading the definition, the reference to “its movement is Swiss” is interesting…. The definition does not require the movement’s parts, or even the entire movement, to be made in Switzerland. Only that the movement is “Swiss” (whatever that means….I guess at least its design or history?), that the movement be put in the watch case and inspected in Switzerland and that the watch’s total manufacturing cost be at least 60% Swiss.

“Swiss made” really feels like pure marketing blah blah blah…..

Oh well. As they say, one should learn something new each day. That one thing doesn’t have to necessarily be a positive thing.

I just feel bad that it took me so many years of following watches to only learn this now.

I really wish we had a better vision of which watchmakers do what vis-a-vis “Swiss made”. What do Rolex, Omega, JLC, Patek, AP, VC, IWC, Cartier, Breitling, Breguet, Panerai, the expensive independents, etc. etc. etc. do?

[BraveBold]

I will point out that if 39% of COST is from China, it would likely be majority “Chinese made” by any practical interpretation.

Because Chinese costs will be a small fraction of Swiss costs per unit of “item” produced… for example, from a labor perspective it might mean 100 hrs of Chinese labor to 5 hours (or less) Swiss.

That said, the proof is largely in the pudding… and for Rolex the bulk of costs are likely from things that (at least for what we’d value) could be done efficiently in Switzerland (machining / tooling)… and if those rules are “AND” then also the design is predominantly Swiss. Rolex quality still suggests it is truly Swiss made.

Other brands, well, there is probably more variability than many would like to admit. But from a marketing perspective it goes beyond the label, and supply chain control gets tricky and reproductions harder to discern… so my informed but imperfect guess is Rolex is maintaining far more than 60% of costs (and components as FINISHED goods, not raw) domestic.

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Here is what qualifies a watch as being "Swiss made" according to the the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH (https://www.fhs.swiss/eng/whoweare.html):

"Art. 1a Definition of the Swiss watch

A watch is to be regarded as a Swiss watch if:

a. its technical development has taken place in Switzerland;

1. in the case of exclusively mechanical watches, at least the mechanical
construction and prototyping of the watch as a whole,

2. in the case of watches that are not exclusively mechanical, at least the
mechanical construction and prototyping of the watch as a whole, together
with the conception of the printed circuit or circuits, the display and the
software;

a bis. its movement is Swiss;

b. its movement has been cased up in Switzerland;

c. final inspection by the manufacturer took place in Switzerland and

d. at least 60% of the manufacturing costs is generated in Switzerland"

(https://www.fhs.swiss/file/8/Guide_FH_v.5_en.pdf)

[Cru Jones]

So.............if 39% of the manufacturing costs are from outside of Switzerland (China, for example), the watch is "Swiss made" according to the Swiss industry, and can have "Swiss made" written on the dial.

Whether or not, as a consumer, a "luxury" "Swiss watch" having 39% of the manufacturing costs coming from China feels "luxury" is up to the consumer.

I know what I think....

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

"Swiss Made" doesn’t mean all parts and/or raw materials are sourced from or made in Switzerland. We’re talking about things like screws here. Some of Omega’s bracelet parts could be made in Asia (not confirmed), and the leather straps on a Patek are made in Italy, yet both are still Swiss Made. Do you think the diamonds Rolex uses were mined in Switzerland? What about the meteorite? Any buyer should know that there’s a chance up to 39% of their Swiss Made watch was sourced from somewhere else - even if it's a Rolex.

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

So.............if 39% of the manufacturing costs are from outside of Switzerland (China, for example), the watch is "Swiss made" according to the Swiss industry, and can have "Swiss made" written on the dial.

Whether or not, as a consumer, a "luxury" "Swiss watch" having 39% of the manufacturing costs coming from China feels "luxury" is up to the consumer.

I know what I think....

Thanks for trying to make me feel better

[Paul C]

What top-tier watch brands do this?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Paul C

What top-tier watch brands do this?

That’s just it, we don’t know for sure.

It’s been rumored that Omega may have parts made in China. Exactly what those parts are is somewhat unclear.

I’d imagine some other Swiss brands do the same.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by brandrea

That’s just it, we don’t know for sure.

It’s been rumored that Omega may have parts made in China. Exactly what those parts are is somewhat unclear.

I’d imagine some other Swiss brands do the same.

They have bracelets made in Thailand 100%. This is confirmed and you can see pictures of the packaging saying this if you google it.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

They have bracelets made in Thailand 100%. This is confirmed and you can see pictures of the packaging saying this if you google it.

I’ll take your word for that


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[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

They have bracelets made in Thailand 100%. This is confirmed and you can see pictures of the packaging saying this if you google it.

Originally Posted by brandrea

I’ll take your word for that

Here is an interesting thread from 2023 ("Are Omega Clasps Made in Thailand Now"), including pictures and changes in wording from Omega on manufacturing of watches:

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/a...d-now.5493348/


Omega went from this:


To this:

[brandrea]

Well dagnabit …. I’m starting to wish I didn’t come here today




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[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Well dagnabit …. I’m starting to wish I didn’t come here today

Another way to look at it: your watch features the resurrected epic calibre 321 with roots in the 1940s, shared with HH brands, worn on the moon and hand assembled these days in Switzerland. It is the ultimate Speedmaster.

You didn't buy the 321 because the clasp was made in Switzerland. Well, presumably that wasn't the driving factor.

Anyway, this is a general discussion about "Swiss made" and not about a specific brand or watch.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Another way to look at it: your watch features the resurrected epic calibre 321 with roots in the 1940s, shared with HH brands, worn on the moon and hand assembled these days in Switzerland. It is the ultimate Speedmaster.

You didn't buy the 321 because the clasp was made in Switzerland. Well, presumably that wasn't the driving factor.

Anyway, this is a general discussion about "Swiss made" and not about a specific brand or watch.

Thank you for bringing me back down to earth :earth:

The topic is a good one


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