Rolex new ad rules??

[Aiden_999]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

Don't listen to him please. Ridiculous viewpoint.

Filing a chargeback (wtf) and then going to overpay for the same watch at a grey dealer - just because you have to wait a couple of weeks until the AD can release it.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with what happened. The dealer is in no way forcing you to buy the watch. He offered you the watch and one of the terms was simply that they keep it in the showroom for a couple of weeks, that's all. Where is the issue. There is none.

Go to any AD, look at all the watches they have in the window, all the brands. If you want to buy a watch, you get the watch from the window. Some of them has probably sat there for several months (even years) and had plenty of people try them on.

You think because you buy a watch through a grey dealer it's "more new"? No, it's even less because it changed even more hands and likely has even further handling marks.

This whole discussion really makes me

Easy buddy, I’m not gonna buy from gray like ever never. It’s unnecessary and a lot more risk to take comparing to AD.

I also don’t get why some people buy or encourage others to buy from gray… Not to mention the gray market actually ask for even more money. And it could be a Frankenstein watch (especially for watches like Rolex which don’t have open case back) unless you open the case and have specialist to examine it. But are we really gonna make it this complicated? All these risks and much more price for what? I’m not like in a rush to put it on my wrist for a show or something…

[Aiden_999]

Originally Posted by Auric Goldfinger

Clearly some haven’t read the thread where it’s been established this is a regional policy.

Indeed. The idea of this thread was to share experiences in different regions and help others understand how ADs runs differently in different regions. And based on those info to help me and others make their mind. Some how it’s going the wrong direction now

[Aiden_999]

Originally Posted by Auric Goldfinger

OP - I don’t understand why you’re still concerned when you heard from another local who just picked his his VTNR and went through the same three week period. The AD isn’t trying to pull a fast one on you. It’s a legit policy. Not sure why this thread is still going? Not like you have many options for ADs in ZA.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...8&postcount=62

Thanks for the follow up. I’m not concerned at all now. There is indeed not much of choices here in this continent. And I’ve already decided to pay the rest next week. Just sharing thoughts with others. Cheers

[1995akcoop]

screw them


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[Aiden_999]

Originally Posted by 911991

ADs operate independently, I would find another AD to purchase from. The AD could have just displayed the watch for 3 weeks before calling you?



I have 4 ADs in my area and NONE operate in that manner, NO: deposits, no visits, nothing, show up when watch arrives, pay for the watch, size the bracelet and good home with a smile on your face. I know how anxious it is getting a new Rolex, but dont enable ADs by playing their games...

Yes, but different AD policy here in Africa. It seems a new regional rule in South Africa.

[Nodzex]

Originally Posted by train-time

Really! Time to buy another brand and tell them where they can shove it.

I am with you!

[VonSomething]

Originally Posted by Aiden_999

Easy buddy, I’m not gonna buy from gray like ever never. It’s unnecessary and a lot more risk to take comparing to AD.

I also don’t get why some people buy or encourage others to buy from gray… Not to mention the gray market actually ask for even more money. And it could be a Frankenstein watch (especially for watches like Rolex which don’t have open case back) unless you open the case and have specialist to examine it. But are we really gonna make it this complicated? All these risks and much more price for what? I’m not like in a rush to put it on my wrist for a show or something…

Sorry, it was not directed at you, but the other guy recommending the chargeback and buying from grey.

Open caseback won't help you much other than perhaps verifying some visible movement parts. People still exchange these parts for aftermarket because the original parts carry big value:

Bracelet
Clasp
Case
Bezel
Bezel-insert
Dial
Hands
Pushers
Crown

There would be little to no way of knowing (besides being an absolute expert) if a second hand watch would have any of those parts exchanged.

Too many opportunities for someone without morals out there to make a quick buck and unfortunately there are many of those people out there.

Congrats on the watch though, will be nice to pick it up and don't put too much thought into the process.

Fact of the matter is that you got the watch and at least the dealer was upfront about it. Usually it would sit in the showroom before them letting you know it's available.

[Upper Echelon]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

Don't listen to him please. Ridiculous viewpoint.

Filing a chargeback (wtf) and then going to overpay for the same watch at a grey dealer - just because you have to wait a couple of weeks until the AD can release it.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with what happened. The dealer is in no way forcing you to buy the watch. He offered you the watch and one of the terms was simply that they keep it in the showroom for a couple of weeks, that's all. Where is the issue. There is none.

Go to any AD, look at all the watches they have in the window, all the brands. If you want to buy a watch, you get the watch from the window. Some of them has probably sat there for several months (even years) and had plenty of people try them on.

You think because you buy a watch through a grey dealer it's "more new"? No, it's even less because it changed even more hands and likely has even further handling marks.

This whole discussion really makes me

Nowhere did I give OP advice on what he should or not should not do.

I started my post with "just my 2c..." because that's what it is.

I can state my opinion, you can state yours.

I personally think ADs are taking the piss and I would happily pay extra to buy a full set from a reputable "grey market" watch dealer or jeweller rather than jump through hoops to be allowed the honour of spending my hard earned money at an AD.

If an AD demanded I pay full price upfront then wait while they use my property in the showroom for three weeks, yes I would get my deposit back and take my business elsewhere.

Again... I am not telling OP what to do. I am stating my view and what I would do in that situation.

Since OP is in SA maybe there is no better option in his case, so my view doesn't apply to all. That's why it's an opinion not advice.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

Don't listen to him please. Ridiculous viewpoint.

Filing a chargeback (wtf) and then going to overpay for the same watch at a grey dealer - just because you have to wait a couple of weeks until the AD can release it.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with what happened. The dealer is in no way forcing you to buy the watch. He offered you the watch and one of the terms was simply that they keep it in the showroom for a couple of weeks, that's all. Where is the issue. There is none.

Go to any AD, look at all the watches they have in the window, all the brands. If you want to buy a watch, you get the watch from the window. Some of them has probably sat there for several months (even years) and had plenty of people try them on.

You think because you buy a watch through a grey dealer it's "more new"? No, it's even less because it changed even more hands and likely has even further handling marks.

This whole discussion really makes me

This. And to all the people who are longing for “watches in cases for sale,” when that happens, all Rolexes will be sold this way. After a few people have tried them on.


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[Bizcut1]

Walk away and see ya' later...let some other schmucks do the a** kissing...

Jesus. ^%$#@ these people.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

It's not always applicable to luxury/expensive goods.

Car dealers, HiFi dealers, etc, have display/demo models for customers to try out. These are supplied by the manufacturer at a trade discount and are sold by the dealer for a discounted price after they have been used as demos for a period of time, which can be dictated by a number of factors.

Of course, some punters may be inclined to pay full price for these display goods. They don't know the difference or maybe they don't care. Or possibly they know the rarity and are just happy to close their fingers around that Unicorn and stump up the MSRP. Maybe that's all you can do for a Rolex in SA? It still looks shoddy though.

Cars? If the car hasn’t been put in service, ie, sold to and end consumer, it’s typically sold as new regardless of if it’s been test driven or not

[Upper Echelon]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Walk away and see ya' later... let some other schmucks do the a** kissing...

Jesus. ^%$ these people.

For real, I don't get the people defending this behaviour from ADs and blindly attacking dealers just because they're not "authorised."

It would be one thing if ADs were acting ethically but they simply aren't.

How far can we take it?

"Good news! We've just got your Lambo in. Pay us the full price while we rent it out for three months, then after that you can pick it up. We good?"

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by Upper Echelon

For real, I don't get the people defending this behaviour from ADs and blindly attacking dealers just because they're not "authorised."

It would be one thing if ADs were acting ethically but they simply aren't.

How far can we take it?

"Good news! We've just got your Lambo in. Pay us the full price while we rent it out for three months, then after that you can pick it up. We good?"

Because this is how all watches are typically sold and how Rolexes were sold pre 2020. A watch sat in a case and people looked at it and tried in on until someone bought it. Apparently in this particular instance, it is a regional policy to insure people can see watches. Not sure what’s unethical about it.

And it’s that way with cars too. Having people sit in and test drive cars is not the same as “renting it out for three months.” When you buy a car you think no one has sat in or driven it?

One could ask a similar question: why are there so many shills for the grey dealers here?

[Roger Lococco]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

Because this is how all watches are typically sold and how Rolexes were sold pre 2020. A watch sat in a case and people looked at it and tried in on until someone bought it. Apparently in this particular instance, it is a regional policy to insure people can see watches. Not sure what’s unethical about it.

And it’s that way with cars too. Having people sit in and test drive cars is not the same as “renting it out for three months.” When you buy a car you think no one has sat in or driven it?

One could ask a similar question: why are there so many shills for the grey dealers here?

Yeah. When I buy a car, no one has ever sat in it other than maybe the Quality team at the manufacturer’s plant and the few yards to load and unload on the truck.

My cars certainly did not sit on the lot for others to sit in or get out.

The AD is being ridiculous here.


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[Upper Echelon]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

Because this is how all watches are typically sold and how Rolexes were sold pre 2020. A watch sat in a case and people looked at it and tried in on until someone bought it. Apparently in this particular instance, it is a regional policy to insure people can see watches. Not sure what’s unethical about it.

And it’s that way with cars too. Having people sit in and test drive cars is not the same as “renting it out for three months.” When you buy a car you think no one has sat in or driven it?

One could ask a similar question: why are there so many shills for the grey dealers here?

The difference in those two cases is that the watch is not my property if I have not yet paid for it. It is the dealer's property.

Once I pay full price for something, it is then my property.

My issue therefore is not with the case that other people have tried on the watch or test driven the car, but that an AD is insisting I have to allow them to continue doing so after I have paid for it in full and it has become my property.

Whether it is policy or not is irrelevant to whether it is something I consider acceptable customer service.

I am not telling anyone else what to do. Only giving my personal opinion.

And idk, perhaps people "shill" grey market dealers because they provide a better service than ADs?

Btw I was not shilling anyone. I did not tell people buy from this shop instead. I simply expressed my own preference for reputable grey market dealers over jumping through hoops with ADs.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by Roger Lococco

Yeah. When I buy a car, no one has ever sat in it other than maybe the Quality team at the manufacturer’s plant and the few yards to load and unload on the truck.

My cars certainly did not sit on the lot for others to sit in or get out.

The AD is being ridiculous here.


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Congratulations for you? But this is not how most cars are sold. How do you think people go on test drives? Why do huge dealer lots exist?

[VonSomething]

Originally Posted by Roger Lococco

Yeah. When I buy a car, no one has ever sat in it other than maybe the Quality team at the manufacturer’s plant and the few yards to load and unload on the truck.

My cars certainly did not sit on the lot for others to sit in or get out.

The AD is being ridiculous here.


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Just to make sure we're on the same page...

We now imagine you see a Submariner in the window at an AD - you then go in and say "I would like to buy a Submariner". The dealer walks over to pick up the Submariner from the display case, at which point you stop him, "no I want a brand new one."

"Sir this is new?"

to which you reply "No you're being ridiculous, other customers may have tried it on."

?????????

[sleepydoc]

It is a bit irritating since you are paying in full to have to wait to collect but I would still proceed with purchasing. As you said there is not an easier way. As long as you inspect it thoroughly before leaving the AD. My SA showed me a large ding on the case of their exhibition Explorer, probably a rare occurrence but it can happen.

[Roger Lococco]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

Just to make sure we're on the same page...

We now imagine you see a Submariner in the window at an AD - you then go in and say "I would like to buy a Submariner". The dealer walks over to pick up the Submariner from the display case, at which point you stop him, "no I want a brand new one."

"Sir this is new?"

to which you reply "No you're being ridiculous, other customers may have tried it on."

?????????

1. If I had paid for the watch, then it had better not be sitting in the window when I go to pick it up.

2. I only buy Rolexes that have not been put on display.


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[Upper Echelon]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

Just to make sure we're on the same page...

We now imagine you see a Submariner in the window at an AD - you then go in and say "I would like to buy a Submariner". The dealer walks over to pick up the Submariner from the display case, at which point you stop him, "no I want a brand new one."

"Sir this is new?"

to which you reply "No you're being ridiculous, other customers may have tried it on."

?????????

In this scenario is the AD insisting that you pay for the watch then allow them to hold your property so they can continue letting others try it on for a few weeks?

What happens to the watch before I buy it is another issue to what I am being told I am allowed to do with my own property I have fully paid for.

I can also inspect the watch to make sure it is still in pristine condition before I pay, even if others have tried it on.

With OP's AD, you lose this right.

I simply don't get how this is acceptable customer service. Would you accept this from any company other than Rolex?

[DCheeta]

I would not be into that.

[2loaded]

Daily conjugal visits might persuade them to parole the watch early.

[CarlOver]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

Don't listen to him please. Ridiculous viewpoint.

Filing a chargeback (wtf) and then going to overpay for the same watch at a grey dealer - just because you have to wait a couple of weeks until the AD can release it.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with what happened. The dealer is in no way forcing you to buy the watch. He offered you the watch and one of the terms was simply that they keep it in the showroom for a couple of weeks, that's all. Where is the issue. There is none.

Go to any AD, look at all the watches they have in the window, all the brands. If you want to buy a watch, you get the watch from the window. Some of them has probably sat there for several months (even years) and had plenty of people try them on.

You think because you buy a watch through a grey dealer it's "more new"? No, it's even less because it changed even more hands and likely has even further handling marks.

This whole discussion really makes me

You say that when you buy a new watch from an AD, that you get the watch in the window. That might be the case where you live, but in many AD in the US, you are offered a watch that was received and has been in the safe and has all stickers on them. This watch will be delivered to you in that condition and after agreeing to buy it, it will have stickers removed, bracelet sized, and cleaned up. Warranty will be activated at that time.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by Upper Echelon

In this scenario is the AD insisting that you pay for the watch then allow them to hold your property so they can continue letting others try it on for a few weeks?

What happens to the watch before I buy it is another issue to what I am being told I am allowed to do with my own property I have fully paid for.

I can also inspect the watch to make sure it is still in pristine condition before I pay, even if others have tried it on.

With OP's AD, you lose this right.

I simply don't get how this is acceptable customer service. Would you accept this from any company other than Rolex?

If I wanted the watch and the only way to get it was this way or paying more money from an unauthorized reseller, then yes.

The reality of the matter is that demand far outstrips supply. When people say “would you accept this from any company other than Rolex?”, the answer is, yes, if there are 10-20 people in line for every item the company puts out.

Sure you can choose not to participate. But OP wants the watch. And where does it say he can’t get his money back if the watch is damaged?

Would I pay a deposit on a Birkin Bag and pick it up after it sat in store for three weeks so people could look. Sure if my wife wanted it. Would I do the same for the mustang Mach e if they said it had to sit in showroom for three weeks? Yup. Because the alternative is a 9 month wait.

[LSU-MOOSE]

Originally Posted by Roger Lococco

2. I only buy Rolexes that have not been put on display.


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Then you did not purchase a Rolex prior to 2018. Every Rolex I purchased prior to 2018 was “on display” and tried on frequently. Some had been in case for months. I know because I would see them in there and finally decide to add to my collection. I bought a Cellini that had been in the case for at least 6 months. Who knows how many people tried it on and handled it before I purchased it. Never crossed my mind that I was not buying a “brand new watch”.

[YGRLX]

I have done this a few times with my AD…. What’s the big deal. I’m happy for it to sit in a case displayed, untouched and insured. It’s there or my safety deposit box. I have a Pepsi meteorite there right now.

[Roger Lococco]

Originally Posted by LSU-MOOSE

Then you did not purchase a Rolex prior to 2018. Every Rolex I purchased prior to 2018 was “on display” and tried on frequently. Some had been in case for months. I know because I would see them in there and finally decide to add to my collection. I bought a Cellini that had been in the case for at least 6 months. Who knows how many people tried it on and handled it before I purchased it. Never crossed my mind that I was not buying a “brand new watch”.

Yes, I did purchase prior to 2018. All the way back to 2003. From Rolex to the AD to my hands.


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[R35GTR]

Your AD is slimey. Asking you to pay fully and not delivering product? That’s wrong on so many levels

[Upper Echelon]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

If I wanted the watch and the only way to get it was this way or paying more money from an unauthorized reseller, then yes.

The reality of the matter is that demand far outstrips supply. When people say “would you accept this from any company other than Rolex?”, the answer is, yes, if there are 10-20 people in line for every item the company puts out.

Sure you can choose not to participate. But OP wants the watch. And where does it say he can’t get his money back if the watch is damaged?

Would I pay a deposit on a Birkin Bag and pick it up after it sat in store for three weeks so people could look. Sure if my wife wanted it. Would I do the same for the mustang Mach e if they said it had to sit in showroom for three weeks? Yup. Because the alternative is a 9 month wait.

But this is not a deposit. You are paying in full. So let's not change the scenario. If you had to pay the full list price for the bag and the car three weeks before you could take them home, would you do it?

What are the odds you can get your money back after paying in full? They've got your money. AD can just say it was like that when we showed it to you. You can turn up with a 4K camera and film every detail before paying, I guess... or you could just go to a retailer who will let you take your goods home after paying full price for them.

Yes demand outstrips supply. That's why I am happy to go to a trusted grey dealer and pay a markup to get one without waiting years and jumping through hoops. That's economics. Supply and demand.

I have purchased many luxury goods in my life and never once have I been told I must pay for the item in full then allow the retailer to keep my property so they can display it and let others try it on for weeks afterwards.

Here is where, in my opinion, the grey market dealers offer a better service. I've never heard of this from anywhere other than ADs. If a grey market dealer did do this, everyone would just go to another one. There is no policy that applies to every grey market dealer in the country because they're independent businesses and are incentivised to compete with each other. That's the beauty of a free market.

ADs are a rigged game. They know they don't have to care about their customers because they'll move product no matter what. The more people accept this type of treatment, the further they will push it. I personally would not give my money to such a business.

If an AD is acting like I should let them get away with such things and be grateful I'm allowed to spend money with them it harms the brand. Rolex should take a page out of AP's book and take control of the consumer retail experience directly because this is harming the brand in the eyes of many consumers and other prestigious watchmakers are eating at their market share.

But if you think it's acceptable for a retailer to keep your property that you paid for in full - not just put a deposit on, but fully paid for - to use as a display item for weeks after paying with no discount, this is why ADs can get away with it and Rolex can get away with setting these policies and not treating their customers fairly.

But hey it is your money. Spent it as you wish.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by YGRLX

I have done this a few times with my AD…. What’s the big deal. I’m happy for it to sit in a case displayed, untouched and insured. It’s there or my safety deposit box. I have a Pepsi meteorite there right now.

are you sure it will be untouched