Are you ok with "Swiss made" watches having Chinese-made parts?

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

Right, so that brings me to my second point. If the rumors are true and Omega is outsourcing production outside of Switzerland, it can’t be for the same cost saving reasons that companies turn to China. I find it hard to believe that countries like Germany, France, or Italy offer production and labor that are cheaper, or at least not by much, compared to Switzerland.

It's complicated? Specialization, unique machinery, tariffs, response times, etc etc. Even if the exact same widget is cheaper in China, I might still get it made in Germany as well because it might be a critical component and/or just by having two suppliers competing for the same business my average cost is equal to or lower than the cost if it had been single sourced. If one of the two suppliers isn't doing a great job, I'll add another to give them a try even if it costs more now and renegotiate one, both, or all three later depending on results. Again, this isn't just Omega, this is all part of doing business in lots of industries.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

Someone can correct me if wrong. But my understanding of how the Swiss watch industry worked for literally 100s of years is an amalgamation of suppliers. Separate companies that had expertise in cases, specific movement parts (or the entire movement), crowns, straps, etc etc and the watch "brand" would order all these parts to their specifications and then assemble the watch.

Rolex has always been more vertically integrated on a relative basis, but we know about Aegler, Zenith, and Made in Mexico bracelets.

So to the extent these Omega suppliers are in other European countries, it might not be overwhelming cost savings, but rather chasing expertise from specific suppliers that are located in those nations. And those specific suppliers are probably not just supplying Omega, but other watch brands as well. I doubt they are Omega or Swatch owned companies, but I could be wrong there.

Nice summary

Made in Mexico bracelets?

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Nice summary

Made in Mexico bracelets?

Yep!

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=342663

[77T]

Decades ago RUSA had bracelets made in USA as well.


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[Andad]

50 on the poll (so far) are going to be disappointed.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

Yep!

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=342663

Ah, so if Rolex made them in another country they could be rare and valuable


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[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Ah, so if Rolex made them in another country they could be rare and valuable

Yes, and the opposite seems true for many other brands: coming across a watch with parts actually made in Switzerland could make it rare and valuable.

[geoach]

My older Patek has the Geneva seal.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by geoach

My older Patek has the Geneva seal.

Those days are long gone and in the rearview mirror. Now it's Thierry's game (and look at what's happening).


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Louis Vuitton was proudly Made In France for many decades (pre-1987 before LVMH). Today, owned by conglomerate LVMH, Louis Vuitton luggage / purse / wallet / etc products are made in Spain, France, the USA, etc. Don't hear LV'philes complaining as long as product quality and service is as expected.

One day in the future, 'Made By Humans On Planet Earth' could be a thing.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Louis Vuitton was proudly Made In France for many decades (pre-1987 before LVMH). Today, owned by conglomerate LVMH, Louis Vuitton luggage / purse / wallet / etc products are made in Spain, France, the USA, etc. Don't hear LV'philes complaining as long as product quality and service is as expected.

But.....Louis Vuitton isn't labeling those items as being "Made in France", so I'm not sure that's a good comparison.

[rajurama]

This harsh reality hit me quite early on as a kid when I found out 'Japan Movement' Seikos and Made in Thailand Casios.

I still made mistake of getting a Tag Heuer which I could swear had absolutely no Swiss parts other than movement.

Just glad I sold off most of my modern Omegas and Tag etc , even things that still bother me are in-house 'Manufacture' movements but thats another topic.

If Im paying a premium for a Swiss watch I would appreciate and prefer its 100% Swiss Made , hope things improve. I am guessing Germany Laws are not as loose and Nomos, ALS or Glasshutte more integrated and in-house.

[Paul C]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

But.....Louis Vuitton isn't labeling those items as being "Made in France", so I'm not sure that's a good comparison.

Yes you're right it is not.

It's all to do with perceived quality (marketing). The consumers see 'Swiss Made' and believe it's great. Same for Maisons (fashion houses) where it says 'Made In Italy' and the consumers believe it's great. However I don't believe we should take 'Swiss Made' at face value. Why? Last year there was a story that's being investigated of Dior in Italy using cheap labor to make their handbags for $50 or so and selling for a high profit margin a few grand.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

But.....Louis Vuitton isn't labeling those items as being "Made in France", so I'm not sure that's a good comparison.

True that.

Made in USA... discuss.

Maybe we should start a Made In England fad. Christopher Ward, George Daniels, Arnold & Son, RW Smith... and there is a very nice community for the British timepiece community. Maybe it's time we go back, full circle to the wonderful horological inventions thanks to British watchmakers.

British good.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I hope you hear something back. When you say you emailed Omega, is that OSC in Toronto or the mothership in Switzerland?

I also emailed my boutique but I’m not sure they are an authority on such matters.

They just emailed back. Here’s a screenshot of their response:

[Cru Jones]

^ Well done getting a response. Thanks for sharing it.

Seems clear Omega does not guarantee manufacturing of bracelets in Switzerland, if I’m reading that answer/non-answer correctly?

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

^ Well done getting a response. Thanks for sharing it.

Seems clear Omega does not guarantee manufacturing of bracelets in Switzerland, if I’m reading that answer/non-answer correctly?

I get the same vibe.

[Phlippe]

A few years back I wanted to put an Omega style James Bond milanese style bracelet on my Tudor BB925. I found a high quality one on e-bay. There was no Omega markings on the one pictured or I wouldn’t have ordered it. The seller said they were the Omega Mfg of that bracelet but this one wasn’t marked. I figured this wasn’t true and it was just salesmanship. Now I highly doubt this was going to be made in Titanium as advertised but figured 316 stainless would look fine. The bracelet was shipped to me directly from China, it wasn’t Titanium as expected, however the quality was amazing and it was indeed marked as an Omega. instead of putting it on myself, I brought it to my Rolex AD watchmaker. We couldn’t figure out if it was a fake or not it was that nice.

Fast forward a few years and my BB925 had taken on a beautiful aged patina, but now the bracelet no longer matched it. I needed a to source a titanium version of the bracelet to match properly. Since then, my A.D. had also become an official Omega dealer and they could now order me an authentic Omega titanium James Bond bracelet directly from Omega. When it arrived we were shocked at how identical the two were. And the made in country on the packaging was not Switzerland.

Now I can not say for sure Omega sourced the bracelet from China. I can say for sure the plastic bag it came in was made there. All this tells me is someone sourced the bag from China, the bracelet did not have a mfg country on it. Was it, I’ll let you decide.

[rajurama]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

They just emailed back. Here’s a screenshot of their response:

Yep good job on the 'movements' only made in Switzerland that also could be made by Swatch ETA factory as its the same 'group'

[ChetBaker]

This language is clearly the result of some fine wordsmithing by their legal department. It is sufficiently vague that anything can be outsourced to China, even movements. I hate it when brands do this. I wasn’t an Omega buyer and won’t be.

[INC]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

^ Well done getting a response. Thanks for sharing it.

To me, the original answer means that they only use in-house components, either in a factory that manufactures Omegas (as a brand) or in a factory that belongs to Swatch (as a group). This means that an Omega deserves the title of “Swiss made” even though some of the component manufacturing places are not located within Switzerland.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by INC

To me, the original answer means that they only use in-house components, either in a factory that manufactures Omegas (as a brand) or in a factory that belongs to Swatch (as a group). This means that an Omega deserves the title of “Swiss made” even though some of the component manufacturing places are not located within Switzerland.

According to the response, being from Omega or the Swatch Group only applies to the movement. It seems the rest of the watch is composed of “high class materials” inspected by Omega.

Anyway, I know of a couple of forum members besides myself who have reached out to Omega to clarify things. Hopefully we will see more communication, including communication that’s less overtly legal/marketing and more direct in order to be sure.

As for the “Swiss made” marketing label, according to Swiss federation rules, at least 60% of “manufacturing” costs have to come from within Switzerland and the movement has to be Swiss and cased and inspected in Switzerland to earn the label “Swiss made”. Not a very high standard…..

Rolex, Patek and Moser go further: they clearly and transparently state their watches are almost entirely manufactured in Switzerland. I would like to hear about what other brands claim this.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

According to the response, being from Omega or the Swatch Group only applies to the movement. It seems the rest of the watch is composed of “high class materials” inspected by Omega.

How so? I re-read their statement multiple times and couldn’t reach that conclusion. My only remaining question is whether the bracelets and clasps are included in the “watch” they described as “developed, produced, assembled, and tested in Switzerland” under the same standards.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

How so? I re-read their statement multiple times and couldn’t reach that conclusion. My only remaining question is whether the bracelets and clasps are included in the “watch” they described as “developed, produced, assembled, and tested in Switzerland” under the same standards.

Trust me, I’m trying to find this information out. I’ve emailed OSC Toronto and Bienne (granted these are just customer service contacts).

I’ve also messaged a prominent Watch reviewer and enthusiast quite familiar with the Omega brand to see if he can ask the company whether all the major components of Omega watches are being manufactured in Switzerland. By major components I defined them as: dials, cases, movements, bracelets and clasps.

[omar-rye]

Ok sounds good. I also sent a follow up email yesterday with a similar question about the bracelet and clasps.

[RW16610]

Keep us posted on what the response is, guys. This is rather interesting really.

[INC]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Not a very high standard…..

I agree, but that doesn't change the fact that this is the current rule because it allows the Swiss watch industry to make more money.

Rolex, Patek and Moser go further: they clearly and transparently state their watches are almost entirely manufactured in Switzerland. I would like to hear about what other brands claim this.

Maybe they should create a new trademark or code of conduct for the 100% Swiss-made watches.

[ajw45]

The number of watches that are actually 100% made in CH is tiny, the number of those under $70k probably 0.

But that misses the point. Again, a thing's quality isn't dictated by where a thing is made so just adding another badge doesn't mean we as customer get any higher quality a product, it's just a different level of badge engineering.

[enjoythemusic]

100% is ambitious 100% of the time. Would it be cool at, say, 93% Swiss is fine for the new 'Super Swiss' rating. ALSO must include a 'Watchmaker Hours', which is verified via employment hours.

[brandrea]

An update to this thread from my contact corroborates what has been said above. Not all of Omegas components can be confirmed as being made in their own plant or in Switzerland.

It would appear that Omega may use plants in “other parts of Europe” to produce certain components of their watches, bracelets for example.

Movements, cases, and dials, hands are made at their own facilities.

[brandrea]

Well it took some doing but here is the official response from Omega regarding its bracelet and clasp manufacturing




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