5976/1G - First auction, nice Premium

[Maltie]

Somebody scored a nice premium on the first auction of the 5976/1G.

[KarlS]

Bloody hell. Even with the buyer paying 25% and the seller circa 15% there still seems to be be huge profit

[jon_jon]

Most modern day LE pieces seem to come up for sale at auctions within a year of release and do fairly well on the first auction. I have always wondered if Patek bids on these auctions to find out who is selling the LE piece.

[Hairdude1]

Wow!

[GB-man]

Jesus that's strong. Hard to believe honestly, really hard.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

Most modern day LE pieces seem to come up for sale at auctions within a year of release and do fairly well on the first auction. I have always wondered if Patek bids on these auctions to find out who is selling the LE piece.

They don't have to on LE. Just pop along to the auction and ask to see the watch or papers. Will show you. Also I don't think PP really cares although they say they do. Apparently they have people in Geneva looking which is why grey dealers brush out serial numbers on their advertisements but you could stamp thus out pretty quick (like in the U.K.) if you were truly committed to eliminating it. Let's say it's a reward to a favored customer!

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by KarlS

They don't have to on LE. Just pop along to the auction and ask to see the watch or papers. Will show you. Also I don't think PP really cares although they say they do. Apparently they have people in Geneva looking which is why grey dealers brush out serial numbers on their advertisements but you could stamp thus out pretty quick (like in the U.K.) if you were truly committed to eliminating it. Let's say it's a reward to a favored customer!

I once heard an interesting story/anecdote. A person wanted a 5131 really bad that he wrote a very personal touching story to Philippe Stern as to why it would mean so much for him to receive this piece. They were so touched by his story that they granted him his wish and presented him with a 5131.

A few months later, the new owner was invited to Geneva for a personal tour of the Salon, Museum, etc. During the visit, the owner was asked if he enjoyed wearing the watch and asked why he wasn't wearing it to the Geneva visit. He replied that he kept it in the safe and only wore it on special occasions. Then they brought in a box with the 5131 that the owner received a few months ago. Apparently Patek bid and won the watch at a recent auction. This person was banned from ever purchasing a special or LE Patek watch from an AD again.

I don't know if there is any truth to the story. But it made me wonder how closely Patek monitors auctions of LE and application pieces like MRs, Tourbilons, etc.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

I once heard an interesting story/anecdote. A person wanted a 5131 really bad that he wrote a very personal touching story to Philippe Stern as to why it would mean so much for him to receive this piece. They were so touched by his story that they granted him his wish and presented him with a 5131.



A few months later, the new owner was invited to Geneva for a personal tour of the Salon, Museum, etc. During the visit, the owner was asked if he enjoyed wearing the watch and asked why he wasn't wearing it to the Geneva visit. He replied that he kept it in the safe and only wore it on special occasions. Then they brought in a box with the 5131 that the owner received a few months ago. Apparently Patek bid and won the watch at a recent auction. This person was banned from ever purchasing a special or LE Patek watch from an AD again.



I don't know if there is any truth to the story. But it made me wonder how closely Patek monitors auctions of LE and application pieces like MRs, Tourbilons, etc.

I'm not saying it isn't true but sounds a lot like a stretch. The biggest stretch being Patek granting a nobody a 5131. I bet they get those letters by the bag full daily

Dear santa...

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I'm not saying it isn't true but sounds a lot like a stretch. The biggest stretch being Patek granting a nobody a 5131. I bet they get those letters by the bag full daily

Dear santa...

It is an interesting story indeed.

The person who told me the story has been working in the watch industry for 30 years and I am sure he has heard quite a few interesting stories. When telling the story, he gave me the impression the person who received the 5131 owned one or two Patek watches, but was not a huge collector, although it may not have make a big difference.

I always had the impression that the allocation of a special piece like the 5131 was based on the number of Patek watches you currently own (or have owned) and how long you have been collecting Patek watches and the specific references that you owned. But we have a forum member whose first Patek was a 5131, so that theory really goes out the window and it seems allocation is really at the AD's discretion.

Patek has stated they have bid on and purchased many historical Patek pieces at auctions for restoration or addition to the Patek Museum in the past. However I don't think they routinely bid on watches these days unless the pieces have some historical significance.

[Marciano490]

That seems a bit psychotic if true.

[KarlS]

Yes they have bought watches for the museum...there are those that believe PP only do this to inflate secondary prices!!! Yawn....watches sure dont just walk into a museum on their own!! You need to actually buy them to assemble what is quite possibly the greatest WATCH (not PP only) collection in the world. The allocation process has been discussed ad nauseum and I think the conclusion is that nobody really knows. If you are an AD and see this type of return...wouldnt you sell this to a grey??? Of course you would!! Going back to my comment...if PP truly wanted to eradicate this ......all they have to dictate is that if you sell to a grey then you lose your franchise .....that certainly applies to the UK where my AD wouldntn take the chance....

Many sealed watches are precicesly for this...they are investments an dintended to be flipped. PP would be niave to think not...I can only speak for the UK .....request for LE made to AD....AD then provides a recommendation to Rhone stating why you should be allocated a watch (number of pieces, collection, years, support of brand, support of AD etc etc)....Rhone then looks at all the recommendations and priorites in a way only they know. If a name is chosen the AD is called and the offer is made to the individual by the AD. If the individual cant conclude the AD advises Rhone and then the next person on their list is chosen. The AD doesnt choose the next person. Papers are completed by Rhone in the Buyers and AD's name when shipped. They are very clear..they want the watches to go to those that support the brand...not flippers...and yes they do monitor. We saw with the 40th that different parts of the world allocate differently. In USA it appears that HSWA takes the easy way out and just allocates a piece to the AD for the AD to give to whomever they choose...whether it be deserving client, grey, staff member, family friend or whoever they want to allocate for future custom or a thanks for past...

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

I always had the impression that the allocation of a special piece like the 5131 was based on the number of Patek watches you currently own (or have owned) and how long you have been collecting Patek watches and the specific references that you owned. But we have a forum member whose first Patek was a 5131, so that theory really goes out the window and it seems allocation is really at the AD's discretion.

Allocation within the UK made by Rhone not AD although being local to the AD and attending events for 8 years whilst waiting was helpful to build the AD relationship - I guess my passion for the piece, my other pieces (non Patek) and three meetings/interviews with Rhone staff all helped my cause.

Originally Posted by KarlS

Yes they have bought watches for the museum...there are those that believe PP only do this to inflate secondary prices!!! Yawn....watches sure dont just walk into a museum on their own!! You need to actually buy them to assemble what is quite possibly the greatest WATCH (not PP only) collection in the world. The allocation process has been discussed ad nauseum and I think the conclusion is that nobody really knows. If you are an AD and see this type of return...wouldnt you sell this to a grey??? Of course you would!! Going back to my comment...if PP truly wanted to eradicate this ......all they have to dictate is that if you sell to a grey then you lose your franchise .....that certainly applies to the UK where my AD wouldntn take the chance....

Many sealed watches are precicesly for this...they are investments an dintended to be flipped. PP would be niave to think not...I can only speak for the UK .....request for LE made to AD....AD then provides a recommendation to Rhone stating why you should be allocated a watch (number of pieces, collection, years, support of brand, support of AD etc etc)....Rhone then looks at all the recommendations and priorites in a way only they know. If a name is chosen the AD is called and the offer is made to the individual by the AD. If the individual cant conclude the AD advises Rhone and then the next person on their list is chosen. The AD doesnt choose the next person. Papers are completed by Rhone in the Buyers and AD's name when shipped. They are very clear..they want the watches to go to those that support the brand...not flippers...and yes they do monitor. We saw with the 40th that different parts of the world allocate differently. In USA it appears that HSWA takes the easy way out and just allocates a piece to the AD for the AD to give to whomever they choose...whether it be deserving client, grey, staff member, family friend or whoever they want to allocate for future custom or a thanks for past...

+1. Perfect description of the UK process.
By way of example I had to pass on a 5575G having just got the 5131R and my AD lost the sale as it was re-allocated elsewhere by Rhone.

[Passionata]

are we sure that it wasn t Patek the high bidder?

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Passionata

are we sure that it wasn t Patek the high bidder?

why would it be? Perhaps a grey or group of them setting the price?

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by KarlS

why would it be?

cut the supply of these LE to the grey market then cancel the authorization of the reseller.

[jon_jon]

A very nice explanation of how LE watches are distributed in the UK by Karl and Russell I actually think this process is fair and discourages flippers. I wouldn't mind if Rhone held onto the Certificate for 2 years if I were offered a 5131 or a LE piece from a UK AD.

When visiting UK Patek ADs, I have had several pleasant conversations with salespeople, with some offering to introduce me to the Rhone managing director, Mr. Mark Hearn. I thought it was nice of them to offer, as they didn't know me well, but noticed that I was quite enthusiastic about the brand.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Passionata

cut the supply of these LE to the grey market then cancel the authorization of the reseller.

not sure how buying all the stock coming to auction is going to stop grey market other than fuel it....dont think anyone said I couldnt sell my watch to whoever I wanted....

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by KarlS

not sure how buying all the stock coming to auction is going to stop grey market other than fuel it....dont think anyone said I couldnt sell my watch to whoever I wanted....

i doubt we talk about dozens we may talk about a couple they may want to keep the exclusivity on this way and also a good way to check the paperwork ,
i doubt that Pateks intention to see their hard to get pieces are resold right after acquired by certain individuals , correct me if I m wrong .

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Passionata

i doubt we talk about dozens we may talk about a couple they may want to keep the exclusivity on this way and also a good way to check the paperwork ,
i doubt that Pateks intention to see their hard to get pieces are resold right after acquired by certain individuals , correct me if I m wrong .

agree....and i mentioned before...send a minion from PP Hong Kong to Christies...make a note of the serial number and do whatever you want....blacklist etc....i am a believer trust me...just dont think you need to buy the watch thats all...effectively a secondary price has now been set.

[Hamish]

I wouldn't have a problem if Patek kept the papers for my 5131 for 2 years

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Hamish

I wouldn't have a problem if Patek kept the papers for my 5131 for 2 years

no Hamish....not this path again!!!

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...rs+for+2+years
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ighlight=Rhone

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by KarlS

agree....and i mentioned before...send a minion from PP Hong Kong to Christies...make a note of the serial number and do whatever you want....blacklist etc....i am a believer trust me...just dont think you need to buy the watch thats all...effectively a secondary price has now been set.

it was just a thought ,maybe totally wrong however
a friend of mine told me one time " we may can think like the millionaires but the billionaires are think totally different." i think you understand what i wanna say.

[Racerdj]

When I saw pictures of the 5976, I was sure I was going to pass on this one. Then after seeing it in person, I wanted one. I wear mine and really enjoy it and now that it is being accepted more and more is a real unexpected bonus!

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Racerdj

When I saw pictures of the 5976, I was sure I was going to pass on this one. Then after seeing it in person, I wanted one. I wear mine and really enjoy it and now that it is being accepted more and more is a real unexpected bonus!

as was true for the 5711 as well

[KarlS]

fascinating how the 5131G went for $ 193 000 and the J scraped together $120000

[JBP99p]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

A very nice explanation of how LE watches are distributed in the UK by Karl and Russell I actually think this process is fair and discourages flippers. I wouldn't mind if Rhone held onto the Certificate for 2 years if I were offered a 5131 or a LE piece from a UK AD.

When visiting UK Patek ADs, I have had several pleasant conversations with salespeople, with some offering to introduce me to the Rhone managing director, Mr. Mark Hearn. I thought it was nice of them to offer, as they didn't know me well, but noticed that I was quite enthusiastic about the brand.

If you ever get a chance to meet Mark Hearn or Adrian Lurshay (Sales director) for that matter then grab it with both hands!, they are very nice people and great to speak too. I was fortunate to have been allocated a private meeting (45mins) in the company of both of them in viewing the 2017 releases at the PP stand, Baselworld. Yes I had to pinch myself as I was led to a second floor meeting room, handle the new watches and consume champagne! Personally I adore this brand, when they do things they do it well! Showing this passion I believe has help in the allocations I have received

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by JBP99p

If you ever get a chance to meet Mark Hearn or Adrian Lurshay (Sales director) for that matter then grab it with both hands!, they are very nice people and great to speak too. I was fortunate to have been allocated a private meeting (45mins) in the company of both of them in viewing the 2017 releases at the PP stand, Baselworld. Yes I had to pinch myself as I was led to a second floor meeting room, handle the new watches and consume champagne! Personally I adore this brand, when they do things they do it well! Showing this passion I believe has help in the allocations I have received

Sounds like it was quite an experience I have heard only the big collectors are invited for the private screenings at Basel each year!

[JBP99p]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

Sounds like it was quite an experience I have heard only the big collectors are invited for the private screenings at Basel each year!

I'd heard similar though also that they were reserved for AD's only in discussing stock for the upcoming year. All I can say is that I have met Mark and Adrian several times at events so why my friend and I were accommodated, I can only think it was because they know we are PP mad!...we are certainly not big collectors just humble ones I can assure you of that!

[texex91]

Ooofffff....someone must have been drinking heavily while bidding.

Then again you see asking (not sold) on secondary about $140k.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by JBP99p

If you ever get a chance to meet Mark Hearn or Adrian Lurshay (Sales director) for that matter then grab it with both hands!, they are very nice people and great to speak too. I was fortunate to have been allocated a private meeting (45mins) in the company of both of them in viewing the 2017 releases at the PP stand, Baselworld. Yes I had to pinch myself as I was led to a second floor meeting room, handle the new watches and consume champagne! Personally I adore this brand, when they do things they do it well! Showing this passion I believe has help in the allocations I have received

Both gentlemen and yes I think it helps them having a face to a name when they look at the allocation lists.