Bought Rolex but received Empty Box--HELP

[helo008]

Hey all,

First timer on the forum here looking for some help and advice.

I recently purchased a Rolex GMT II from another TRF member on the classifieds section, and it was shipped overnight to me via UPS.

However, upon receiving the package this morning, I opened it up to find everything but the watch and "pillow" it comes on--the box, warranty card, booklets, extra link, and even a handwritten note from the seller thanking me for the transaction were all there. The white box in particular was a little dirtier than in the photos from the original listing, looks like someone's dirty handprints were on it. In other words, I opened the package to find an empty Rolex box.

The seller and I have since discussed the matter and he was as shocked as I was. We have filed police reports on both ends (we live in cities a few hours away from each other) and he is currently filing a claim with UPS. Luckily, the package was insured to the full value, but I'm worried the process will be messy given the package arrived but the watch was not inside.

My question is, what can I do at this point to recover my losses? Currently, I'm out the value of the watch (it was paid for via direct wire so the funds are with the seller), and while police reports were filed I'm skeptical the watch itself will be found.

Does anyone have advice for this situation or any experience with issues like this? Any help would really be appreciated. Thank you all in advance.

[Old Expat Beast]

Who is the seller?

[Quamby]

Wow!!!!!

[05carbondrz]

Talk about a Nightmare!

[brandrea]

For real?

[helo008]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Who is the seller?

The seller is william21. He's been very communicative throughout the whole process.

The original listing is named: FSOT: ROLEX GMT MASTER II 116710LN Complete Set, Random Serial, Excellent Condition

[tahitianmoon]

Did UPS open the box at the store or location to verify the content being shipped? If so, maybe its on security footage to prove it was last in their possession...

[antbkny]

That’s terrible man. Does it look like the box was repackaged?

[cdmorenot]

Do you have evidence the watch was insured and that a claim will be filed ? Be careful, it may be a BS story to buy time to disappear with the moneys.

What an absolute mess. However, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it too much if the watch was insured.

I don't know where you're from but back when I was in College there was a group of students from my school who worked part time at UPS in Saddle Brook NJ and they were busted for having sticky hands with high value items.

Has the seller mentioned anything about a tamper evident seal of anything of that sort?

When I ship out a package I usually sign my name on a strip of tape. This way I know it has been tampered with. Good luck and keep us posted.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

[jackcarls0n]

That sucks. Sorry to hear about it. I believe in this case getting the claim through UPS is the best bet. Was the packaging in anyway opened or broken and repacked?

Someone knew the contents and it's value. Seems like a job on the inside. Most probably they won't recover the watch. Maybe UPS does an internal investigation.

It is good that the watch was insured.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by helo008

The seller is william21. He's been very communicative throughout the whole process.

The original listing is named: FSOT: ROLEX GMT MASTER II 116710LN Complete Set, Random Serial, Excellent Condition

Did you check his references? Seems he has only sold one watch (yours) on TRF. Right now it's either him, you or a third party at fault, and while it's the seller's responsibility to get the watch into your hands after payment, it's his word against yours. Good luck. Hopefully the seller will get organised with the insurance and a refund.

[helo008]

The box was packaged and shipped at the UPS store. The seller mentioned that he brought the box packaged in the white paper sleeve that says OYSTER S SAP 39137 (with no other obvious labelling) and watched the employees box and seal it. Unfortunately, it was not sealed with tamper-proof tape, but when the local police officer came by to take my statement he noticed that one side of the box was double/triple taped, making it possibly it was tampered with?

On the other hand, it doesn't sound like it was opened to verify contents at the store...:(

[helo008]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Did you check his references? Seems he has only sold one watch (yours) on TRF. Right now it's either him, you or a third party at fault, and while it's the seller's responsibility to get the watch into your hands after payment, it's his word against yours. Good luck. Hopefully the seller will get organised with the insurance and a refund.

I did and found some positive references, but now that you point it out I realize those are purchase references, not sale references.

In addition to that we also exchanged Linkedins and talked a little on the phone, and I did some google searching to match up the phone number with real person and it all lined up.

Thanks for the good wishes--I really hope this concludes well. Would you happen to know how generally refund policy works in situations like these? Should I ask for one now or let things play out?

[watchmework]

This is awful to hear but I hope you’re able to get it worked out. Best of luck with the authorities and insurance.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by helo008

I did and found some positive references, but now that you point it out I realize those are purchase references, not sale references.

In addition to that we also exchanged Linkedins and talked a little on the phone, and I did some google searching to match up the phone number with real person and it all lined up.

Thanks for the good wishes--I really hope this concludes well. Would you happen to know how generally refund policy works in situations like these? Should I ask for one now or let things play out?

There is no set refund Policy as such. TRF only supplies a space for folks to sell stuff, and they make their own policies. As long as no one breaks the law, or the sales forums rules, they can operate pretty much how they wish.

[helo008]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

There is no set refund Policy as such. TRF only supplies a space for folks to sell stuff, and they make their own policies. As long as no one breaks the law, or the sales forums rules, they can operate pretty much how they wish.

Yup I totally understand, I'm just wondering how in instances like this what common practice is. Sorry, this is my first time actually buying after lurking for a while so I'm not quite familiar with how transactions work when they go wrong.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by helo008

Yup I totally understand, I'm just wondering how in instances like this what common practice is. Sorry, this is my first time actually buying after lurking for a while so I'm not quite familiar with how transactions work when they go wrong.

Honestly, I can't recall an instance like this before...that's to say, empty box received and seller still engaging with buyer (which is a good sign, by the way). I'm guessing the seller will want to get his insurance payment before refunding you, whereas one of the big sellers might have refunded you sooner.

[Gharddog03]

Interesting!!! Hope it all plays out!

[helo008]

Originally Posted by cdmorenot

Do you have evidence the watch was insured and that a claim will be filed ? Be careful, it may be a BS story to buy time to disappear with the moneys.

Thanks for the heads up, will do! The seller is a relatively public city councilmember though, which was one of the reasons I trusted him in the first place. So fingers crossed he won't disappear.

[Urosfan]

Sorry to hear about your situation I hope it resolves itself

[Tools]

Originally Posted by helo008

Yup I totally understand, I'm just wondering how in instances like this what common practice is. Sorry, this is my first time actually buying after lurking for a while so I'm not quite familiar with how transactions work when they go wrong.

You have not received your purchase and so it is entirely reasonable to ask for your money back.

The seller is who UPS will deal with as the shipper, so recovering insurance is on them.

[helo008]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Honestly, I can't recall an instance like this before...that's to say, empty box received and seller still engaging with buyer (which is a good sign, by the way). I'm guessing the seller will want to get his insurance payment before refunding you, whereas one of the big sellers might have refunded you sooner.

Yeah, I figured if it were just a scam then he would have ghosted me as soon as he received the funds or I received the package, but then again I've also never had anything stolen out of a package with the rest of the package re-sealed and sent on.

Thanks for the info--hopefully UPS will issue the refund then :/

[roaddog359]

Originally Posted by helo008

Thanks for the heads up, will do! The seller is a relatively public city councilmember though, which was one of the reasons I trusted him in the first place. So fingers crossed he won't disappear.

So, you trusted a politician? I hope this works out for you but something smells fishy and I dont live near water. I would like to see the seller come in here and post!

[OgSnowflake]

How much would you like to insure the package for? “ NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS PLEASE”....Just asking to get robbed and the sad thing is you’re just doing what needs to be done to send somebody a watch.

No idea who the guilty party is here but if it was me I’d start my witch hunt at the ups store.

[roaddog359]

Originally Posted by OgSnowflake

How much would you like to insure the package for? “ NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS PLEASE”....Just asking to get robbed and the sad thing is you’re just doing what needs to be done to send somebody a watch.

No idea who the guilty party is here but if it was me I’d start my witch hunt at the ups store.

I am sure the UPS store has video footage of some kind.

[jvmartin]

He let UPS package the watch for him?? That's not a good idea at all... discretion is literally one of the only hands you have to play when shipping a high value item... insurance is great but it's insurance after all... no one goes looking for an accident just because they're insured... also, if the seller did send the watch and it was stolen by a UPS employee he is likely looking at your story about the watch coming up missing the same way you are looking at his... I wouldn't expect a refund until the matter is completely resolved by UPS...

[springer]

Since when did UPS start insuring jewelry. The buyer needs to check with the seller and find out who the insurer is. I seriously doubt it was UPS.

[VintageVagabound]

Originally Posted by springer

Since when did UPS start insuring jewelry. The buyer needs to check with the seller and find out who the insurer is. I seriously doubt it was UPS.

It’s my understanding that UPS will insure whatever you pay for (with some limitations). With USPS if you want $8,000 in coverage your priority mail shipment will go from $20 to $150 but you’ll be covered. The shipper collecting the money will be the tough part. It’ll take months after they investigate it but UPS offers the same service

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-cente...e-package.page

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by helo008

Hey all,

First timer on the forum here looking for some help and advice.

I recently purchased a Rolex GMT II from another TRF member on the classifieds section, and it was shipped overnight to me via UPS.

However, upon receiving the package this morning, I opened it up to find everything but the watch and "pillow" it comes on--the box, warranty card, booklets, extra link, and even a handwritten note from the seller thanking me for the transaction were all there. The white box in particular was a little dirtier than in the photos from the original listing, looks like someone's dirty handprints were on it. In other words, I opened the package to find an empty Rolex box.

The seller and I have since discussed the matter and he was as shocked as I was. We have filed police reports on both ends (we live in cities a few hours away from each other) and he is currently filing a claim with UPS. Luckily, the package was insured to the full value, but I'm worried the process will be messy given the package arrived but the watch was not inside.

My question is, what can I do at this point to recover my losses? Currently, I'm out the value of the watch (it was paid for via direct wire so the funds are with the seller), and while police reports were filed I'm skeptical the watch itself will be found.

Does anyone have advice for this situation or any experience with issues like this? Any help would really be appreciated. Thank you all in advance.

heartbreaking.

as adam said, at least the seller is communicating.

as for what to do, its now in the system and depending on how you paid, you may have some fallback measures to lean on but the seller is on the hook unless their listing fineprint and your communications say otherwise.

and yes, this happened to me several years ago but luckily with a <$1k watch.

Originally Posted by springer

Since when did UPS start insuring jewelry. The buyer needs to check with the seller and find out who the insurer is. I seriously doubt it was UPS.

good question.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by springer

Since when did UPS start insuring jewelry. The buyer needs to check with the seller and find out who the insurer is. I seriously doubt it was UPS.

Don't quote me on it, but I believe they do now (up to $50k?). Might have been a policy change after they acquired Parcel Pro.