Bought Rolex but received Empty Box--HELP

[jstan9]

Originally Posted by Craigdwh

+1, glad someone finally had the balls to say it.



The level of entitlement displayed by many buyers is astronomical. They think they take on zero risk or responsibility when transacting this way.

I agree with this. It’s the only fair resolution.


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[jstan9]

Originally Posted by MinMay

I guess the lesson we can learn from this...

Long term seller can send an empty box and hold no responsibility.

I hope buyers understand it clearly before making a purchase privately. If you want to take the risk, then don't complain about it. Seller should put a disclaimer in their ad. "Seller holds no responsibility. Buy at your own risk."

How on earth do you know the seller sent an empty box?


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[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by helo008

Just wanted to chime in on this as a couple people have brought up my apartment staff. In my building, it's pretty much accepted that UPS themselves sometimes decides to deliver items straight to the office even if they are signature-required, and that's not something that we but rather UPS couriers decide at their own discretion. Sometimes, they'll come straight to the apartment, but often they'll just decide themselves to let someone sign for it and there's no option for me to decide otherwise. I did not at any point let UPS give someone else the watch--UPS made the decision to do so themselves.

This is one thing I really dislike about these shipping companies. Fedex is just as bad. So long as someone over age 18 signs they consider that 'delivered'. I have had issues in past with unauthorized people signing for my packages when dropped off at the wrong address. I've had numerous packages be delivered to an almost identical address @'Road' vs my address which ends in 'Court'.

For high value items I always have package drop shipped to the nearest Fedex or UPS shipping center. At least there I have to show my ID and I'm sure I sign for it. I'll also open the box in front of the staff before leaving.

[Rolex85]

Originally Posted by helo008

Just wanted to chime in on this as a couple people have brought up my apartment staff. In my building, it's pretty much accepted that UPS themselves sometimes decides to deliver items straight to the office even if they are signature-required, and that's not something that we but rather UPS couriers decide at their own discretion. Sometimes, they'll come straight to the apartment, but often they'll just decide themselves to let someone sign for it and there's no option for me to decide otherwise. I did not at any point let UPS give someone else the watch--UPS made the decision to do so themselves.

However, with that said, I do not believe the apartment staff at my complex were complicit in any way. The reason is that the daily UPS/Fedex/USPS deliveries come all together every day, meaning that quite literally they can receive 20-30 boxes at the same time each delivery. Given that the delivery took place at 11:29am, they would have had to go through all these packages, label them by apartment number, and move them into the mail room and record their receipt. This all happens in an all-glass office where there are at least two employees working. It also doubles as our leasing office, which means tenants come in at any point to pick up packages or address any issues they might have.

I picked up the package roughly 45 minutes after it was delivered, and the two staff members on duty have been working here for the last 2 years at least and I am familiar with both of them. In this short time frame, they would have had to sort all the packages, label them, and record them; I honestly don't believe they would have had the time or idea to open one random package (that was not labeled "Rolex" or "high value" in any way) out of so many, take out only a watch, and reseal it without any obvious signs of tampering, all in full view of our building lobby and anyone on the street. I also do not have a history of ordering high value items, so I doubt my name on the package would have drawn attention to the package either.

This is a good point to bring up as I am not sure what the rules are (maybe someone with inside knowledge of shipping companies can chime in) but wouldn’t UPS be on the hook for this for the very fact that they turned over the package to someone who IS NOT the intended recipient? I know here in Canada we have what is called an “authorized release section” on each one of our ups packages coming to us and that means if I will not be home to sign for it I can authorize them to leave it with someone that is not me. If I do not authorize that and my shipment is “signature required” UPS will NOT leave my package with anyone else and it is brought back to the UPS “local facility” where I can pick it up and show my ID. If the recipient of this package did not sign an authorization giving UPS the right to leave this parcel with someone other than them then does the recipient not have a case that UPS acted against the proper and outlined guidelines of this package. Their responsibility; precisely what they were hired to do, was deliver this package to the recipient and collect HIS signature. They do not have HIS signature which to me means their end of the contract was not fulfilled meaning the insurance provided on this shipment contract should still be in place. Again I could be wrong on this as again I do not work for a shipment/logistics company and if someone inside one of those companies has better knowledge please share.

[inzite]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

Guilty as charged

Inzite can vouch for me

you are as legit as the definition itself!

[tudorbaja27]

An additional point - sure there may be issues at times with shipping etc. Thousands of transactions are made daily - and if 2 go wrong, the % is pretty damm low.

I bought my first watch from a TS here - but he had hundreds of reviews and was well established. Discount was worth it for me. Anyhow - hoping they solve this.

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by inzite

you are as legit as the definition itself!

Thank you inzite. Now thats cleared up I'll be posting several watches for sale later today. Please form an orderly queue.

[Gaijin]

This thread just drained my soul..

[Yobber76]

Originally Posted by tudorbaja27

An additional point - sure there may be issues at times with shipping etc. Thousands of transactions are made daily - and if 2 go wrong, the % is pretty damm low.

I bought my first watch from a TS here - but he had hundreds of reviews and was well established. Discount was worth it for me. Anyhow - hoping they solve this.

I also bought my first Rolex from a TS on this sight with great reviews over a few years. Transaction was flawless had my watch in a day after transferring funds.
I don't remember who the shipping carrier was, and I paid part of the transaction on Paypal, part of it on wire transfer, so that I could make the deal quickly.
I'm sure most of the time it goes fine, remember buy the seller then the watch.

[Uhtred59]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

This thread just drained my soul..

Pretty sure it hasn't ended yet

[crazymcmichael]

Who asked in the first place for who's LinkedIn account? Why?? Set up a trap and name/shame or blackmailing perhaps?
What was the purpose of doing so?
Why did buyer not accept to come and get the watch? Yes,, the story about car in garage, can you show prove of that?
that the weight of the box is now heavier after seller showed us the weight won't say a *** thing as it was allready known by buyer

if seller wanted to cherrish hisself with a new watch, as a cherry on top of the cake or so, why sell the first Rolex? Do you have prove from the other dealer that u where looking to trade it in???

the card on the photo showed, is this corresponding with the one u got in the box??

Nobody here can know who is honest… Nobody except seller,receiver
i am nearly sure it is one of both parties…

But if it was seller, it looks strange if he send the card with the empty box without watch, now a service or resell is impossible without any hugee problems

also the one who didnt accept the f2f offer is the more suspicious party in my opinion as he probably allready known to make his tric worthless

i would be happy to see a face photo of both of you,, i see these things very very very quickly namely

[tudorbaja27]

Originally Posted by Yobber76

I also bought my first Rolex from a TS on this sight with great reviews over a few years. Transaction was flawless had my watch in a day after transferring funds.
I don't remember who the shipping carrier was, and I paid part of the transaction on Paypal, part of it on wire transfer, so that I could make the deal quickly.
I'm sure most of the time it goes fine, remember buy the seller then the watch.

Amen! I was pretty much a newb 6 months ago when I was looking into ways to purchase my Tudor and managed to figure it out.

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by crazymcmichael

Who asked in the first place for who's LinkedIn account? Why?? Set up a trap and name/shame or blackmailing perhaps?
What was the purpose of doing so?
Why did buyer not accept to come and get the watch? Yes,, the story about car in garage, can you show prove of that?
that the weight of the box is now heavier after seller showed us the weight won't say a *** thing as it was allready known by buyer

if seller wanted to cherrish hisself with a new watch, as a cherry on top of the cake or so, why sell the first Rolex? Do you have prove from the other dealer that u where looking to trade it in???

the card on the photo showed, is this corresponding with the one u got in the box??

Nobody here can know who is honest… Nobody except seller,receiver
i am nearly sure it is one of both parties…

But if it was seller, it looks strange if he send the card with the empty box without watch, now a service or resell is impossible without any hugee problems

also the one who didnt accept the f2f offer is the more suspicious party in my opinion as he probably allready known to make his tric worthless

i would be happy to see a face photo of both of you,, i see these things very very very quickly namely

Uhh?

[Pavlos]

Originally Posted by jstan9

How on earth do you know the seller sent an empty box?


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Rolex recommend you buy from an AD as thinly way to be sure you get what you paid for. Do this, flip less and be content that your watch if looked after will outlast you. To hell with fashion and watch size.

They are no trusted sellers or if they are it is a lottery. Even bricks and mortar stores get it wrong.

[Pavlos]

Originally Posted by Paul_I

AD every time, no exceptions. Piece of mind alone is worth passing on the TRF discount.

This is the only way forward.

[crazymcmichael]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

Uhh?

What uhh??

[Zakalwe]

I feel like one of those annoying rubberneckers who hold up traffic on the opposite carriageway trying to get a glimpse of a car crash on the other side. That being said...

Originally Posted by kingSubTT

The reason many people are siding with buyer is buyer has a $9000 empty box, and an expensive lesson in online transactions and seller has no loss so far. Btw where we did this 9k figure come from. I thought the seller listed it for $7600 or something.

This misses the point you were replying to. The buyer says he has an empty box. The seller says he put the watch in the package. They may both be telling the truth. Either could be lying. We, the court of public opinion, don’t have enough evidence to make a definitive judgement. Best keep an open mind and maintain healthy scepticism until the evidence emerges.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by crazymcmichael

Who asked in the first place for who's LinkedIn account? Why?? Set up a trap and name/shame or blackmailing perhaps?
What was the purpose of doing so?
Why did buyer not accept to come and get the watch? Yes,, the story about car in garage, can you show prove of that?
that the weight of the box is now heavier after seller showed us the weight won't say a *** thing as it was allready known by buyer

if seller wanted to cherrish hisself with a new watch, as a cherry on top of the cake or so, why sell the first Rolex? Do you have prove from the other dealer that u where looking to trade it in???

the card on the photo showed, is this corresponding with the one u got in the box??

Nobody here can know who is honest… Nobody except seller,receiver
i am nearly sure it is one of both parties…

But if it was seller, it looks strange if he send the card with the empty box without watch, now a service or resell is impossible without any hugee problems

also the one who didnt accept the f2f offer is the more suspicious party in my opinion as he probably allready known to make his tric worthless

i would be happy to see a face photo of both of you,, i see these things very very very quickly namely

Bad logic. Even worse suggestions. You aren’t helping.

I think it best we give the seller time to work the investigation. Too many vigilanties here trying to justify skewering one party or the other. Everybody here wants instant gratification on an outcome, but it will likely be weeks before the seller is comfortable with the result of the investigation.

There’s no time limit on disputing a wire transaction, so the OP has the option to be patient.

[tudorbaja27]

Originally Posted by Pavlos

This is the only way forward.

The way forward is accurate research before spending thousands. TS won't be removed from the ecosystem, nor should they be

[southtexas]

Sorry double post

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by southtexas

You can pay a little extra for Direct signature required, meaning person on label must sign for it. That would at least cut out the question of the apartment worker as a suspect.

I’m still confused as to how the weight on the label is LESS than the weight of the box in its current condition. (If it can now be weighed on multiple scales of same brand/issue to UPs stores), it seems to me that means the scale at the departure store was incorrect and therefore provided no further clues (unless as someone pointed out, there’s a registry of weights in transit?).

Secondly, was the word ‘Rolex’ written on the label? USA sellers/shippers (shipping within USA)—do NOT ever disclose what’s in the box on any labeling. ParcelPro codes it as “precision instrument” and they actually don’t allow you to use the word “watch” or brand name in your label (domestic or international).



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[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by southtexas

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Per Fedex
“Direct Signature Required: FedEx obtains a signature from someone at the delivery address. If no one is at the address, we reattempt delivery. Adult Signature Required: FedEx obtains a signature from someone at least 21 years old (and possessing the required government-issued photo ID) at the delivery address.”

That means even if selected as direct sig. an employee at the apt could have signed for delivery as they would satisfy those requirements.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

Per Fedex

“Direct Signature Required: FedEx obtains a signature from someone at the delivery address. If no one is at the address, we reattempt delivery. Adult Signature Required: FedEx obtains a signature from someone at least 21 years old (and possessing the required government-issued photo ID) at the delivery address.”



That means even if selected as direct sig. an employee at the apt could have signed for delivery as they would satisfy those requirements.

I believe the delivery address would be “apt. XYZ”, and not 123 Main Street (the apartment building).


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[NKflyer]

Maybe I'm just in a good mood today, but I am really starting to believe that the buyer and seller are both innocent.

As has been discussed to death on pages 4-5 of this thread...

If the seller had a receipt from the UPS store with a package weight of 2lb 8oz, that would strongly indicate that the watch was in the box when dropped off, leaving theft in transit or buyer fraud as the explanation.

If the seller claimed that he shipped the watch but showed a receipt for only 2lb 2.5oz, then we would know he was lying and the watch was missing when dropped off.

But neither of those is the case. The receipt from UPS Store shows the weight was only 1lb 15.5oz which is too low even if the watch was never in the box. This focuses the attention on the origin UPS Store. I don't believe that their scales read incorrectly by a range of 3 to 8.5oz.

[CorradoBrit]

Not a damning indictment but adds something to the mix. this UPS Store doesn't seem to have been open very long.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=16...16fe1a9762f1,1,,,

[jstan9]

Originally Posted by Yobber76

I also bought my first Rolex from a TS on this sight with great reviews over a few years. Transaction was flawless had my watch in a day after transferring funds.
I don't remember who the shipping carrier was, and I paid part of the transaction on Paypal, part of it on wire transfer, so that I could make the deal quickly.
I'm sure most of the time it goes fine, remember buy the seller then the watch.

+1

I also bought from a trusted seller (DavidSW) and the transaction was flawless and David’s service impeccable. The watch was shipped to my office by FedEx, arriving exactly when promised, and beautifully packaged. Granted, these well-known trusted sellers do this as a business, but I’d not hesitate one bit to buy again from the deservedly famous (on TRF, anyhow) DavidSW.

I’m so sorry this has happened to the OP and the seller. It’s really an awful situation. I hope it gets resolved successfully for both parties.

[jstan9]

Originally Posted by Pavlos

Rolex recommend you buy from an AD as thinly way to be sure you get what you paid for. Do this, flip less and be content that your watch if looked after will outlast you. To hell with fashion and watch size.

They are no trusted sellers or if they are it is a lottery. Even bricks and mortar stores get it wrong.

Not sure why you’re quoting me in a rant about flipping and watch sizes, but okay. I’ve never flipped but respect that people can do what they damned well please with their property. We don’t require long-term contracts when buying cars, or shirts. Should we?

[jstan9]

Originally Posted by crazymcmichael

What uhh??

Danger, Will Robinson. Troll alert.

[jstan9]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Bad logic. Even worse suggestions. You aren’t helping.

I think it best we give the seller time to work the investigation. Too many vigilanties here trying to justify skewering one party or the other. Everybody here wants instant gratification on an outcome, but it will likely be weeks before the seller is comfortable with the result of the investigation.

There’s no time limit on disputing a wire transaction, so the OP has the option to be patient.

I agree 100%. It’s a rough situation for both parties and sadly, there’s no quick resolution. Hopefully it will be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties.

[77T]

Originally Posted by jstan9

It’s a rough situation for both parties and sadly, there’s no quick resolution. Hopefully it will be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties.

It’s only a rough situation for both parties IF a 3rd party took the watch.

I agree this will take a long time.

Only a full insurance reimbursement would make the buyer whole again.


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