Water damage to DJ

[Rikki]

That's why all opinions should be welcomed as long as they have some basis in fact from and engineering standpoint and or an experienced point of view Rikki

[Idle Swede]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Some people have one experience in 500 things.
Some have the same experience 500 times.
I gave my opinion and I stand by it Rik.

Perhaps your >500 wet Rolexes might have been easier to repair if you did it 'my way'.

Lets look at the facts.

The DJ had been worn at maybe 60 ft but less than 100'.
It could have been subject to >30 psi of water pressure.
IMO it was likely that the seals leaked at some depth and associated pressure.
Once back on the surface I would have expected the DJ to be pretty well sealed back up and no amount of shaking or oil in a cup is going to get water out or oil in past the seals at this point in time.
How can you expect to open the crown and let water out then dip it in oil and expect oil to go in?
We now have salt water sealed inside the movement and the watch needs to be take apart and repaired asap.
If you heat the case you will speed up the whole internal rusting process.
It's all really very easy to understand Rik.

I am not a watchmaker I am just the simple MD of an engineering business. Seals are seals, pressure is pressure, facts are facts.
We have a lot of very clever Forum members - lets hear from some of them if there is a better way of fixing this problem in the absence of a handy watchmaker.

What are you talking about?
Once on the surface the seals are tight again??????
If the seals are broken they are broken.
Your engineering theory is just that...... a theory.
In real life it doesn't work like that which I have experienced literally hundreds of times with watches and boats.
I have had several watches flooded with water and this is how I have saved them.
It really doesn't matter if you keep them in oil, wine beer or water as long as air doesn't get into them.
Who cares if a watchmaker receives the watch full of water or some oily slippery substance???
It's his job to clean it and that's what you're paying him for.
If he has to spend an extra hour on cleaning it, so be it.
I have bough numeroust boats laying on the bottom and have had no problem restoring them.
If however an owner had his boat sunken and then the next day recovered it and called me a week later to buy it I would laugh at them.
I have a lot of friends that are engineers and they have the same thoughts of theorethical experiences but unfortunately no practical experiences.
School is a wonderful thing but real life is, (at least in my opinion) much more useful.
I know I used some harsh words here but it kind off pisses me off when book worms tells me what I did is not, (according to their books and studies) working when it worked perfect.

Have a wonderful day.

[cajun_one]

This is kinda interesting boys.

[Rikki]

Thanx I think hehe Rikki

[Idle Swede]

Originally Posted by Rikki

Thanx I think hehe Rikki

Who are you thanking?

[greekbum]

Some people have one experience in 500 things.
Some have the same experience 500 times.
I gave my opinion and I stand by it Rik.

Perhaps your >500 wet Rolexes might have been easier to repair if you did it 'my way'


For the most part we are all here to share and learn and talk about our passion in Rolex watches.As a professional watchmaker Rik gave his expert advise.When you go to the DR. do you diagnose yourself?Or tell him you know a better way?You might but your tone wasnt the nicest.

[Idle Swede]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Some people have one experience in 500 things.
Some have the same experience 500 times.
I gave my opinion and I stand by it Rik.

Perhaps your >500 wet Rolexes might have been easier to repair if you did it 'my way'


For the most part we are all here to share and learn and talk about our passion in Rolex watches.As a professional watchmaker Rik gave his expert advise.When you go to the DR. do you diagnose yourself?Or tell him you know a better way?You might but your tone wasnt the nicest.

That's exactly what I would have said if i were as nice as you Nick.

[cyberone]

Great thread I travel to Puerto Rico sevral times a year and find my self in salty ocean water all the time. Good to know what to do if happens to me. I will have my pompay olive oil on my boat ready for action. And your right it will go well with a nice Conch fish salad as well ITS A WIN, WIN :)

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Idle Swede

That's exactly what I would have said if i were as nice as you Nick.

Rik gave his opinion. I gave mine.
Rik pushed his >500 Rolex watches my way.

I wasn't rude to him I was simply giving him my opinion and some advice if he was interested.

If you have something to say Leo, I can handle it, we all have the same interests on this Forum.

This Forum is filled with horror stories of owners taking their Rolex watches to Rolex ADs and having them damaged.

My only interest was the best outcome for the OP.

I apologise if I have hurt anyone's feelings.

Especially yours Rik.

We have other watchtechs on the Forum. I would be interested
to know they would approach this problem?

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Idle Swede

What are you talking about?
Once on the surface the seals are tight again??????
If the seals are broken they are broken.
Your engineering theory is just that...... a theory.
In real life it doesn't work like that which I have experienced literally hundreds of times with watches and boats.
I have had several watches flooded with water and this is how I have saved them.
It really doesn't matter if you keep them in oil, wine beer or water as long as air doesn't get into them.
Who cares if a watchmaker receives the watch full of water or some oily slippery substance???
It's his job to clean it and that's what you're paying him for.
If he has to spend an extra hour on cleaning it, so be it.
I have bough numeroust boats laying on the bottom and have had no problem restoring them.
If however an owner had his boat sunken and then the next day recovered it and called me a week later to buy it I would laugh at them.
I have a lot of friends that are engineers and they have the same thoughts of theorethical experiences but unfortunately no practical experiences.
School is a wonderful thing but real life is, (at least in my opinion) much more useful.
I know I used some harsh words here but it kind off pisses me off when book worms tells me what I did is not, (according to their books and studies) working when it worked perfect.

Have a wonderful day.

IMO once the salt water is inside the watch you can soak the outside of the watch in whatever you want but unless you can get the case back off it won't make any difference.
Do you think that when the seals reach their maximum water resistance that they just vanish? At the relatively low pressures we are talking about I would expect the seals to let some water through and yes, possibly seal up again when the pressure is relieved.
I have seen 'O' ring seals leak at high pressure but handle lower pressures long term in the same application. In any event I can't see any water being shaken out through the crown or the crystal seal.
If you had suggested removing the case back and soaking the whole movement in oil I would have agreed.

I don't know where you are getting you information regarding my engineering theory as that would not be from me.
I go more with common sense and practicality.

ps. I can't see the connection between a faulty Rolex "O" ring and a sunken boat.

Anyway I only gave my opinion and got the 'I have fixed more than 500 wet Rolex'. I was not looking for a fight - mate.

How many watches have you taken to a watchmaker in a cup of oil and as for keeping a watch movement in water to stop it rusting?? This problem was salt water as I remember.

Have a nice day yourself.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Rikki

In his particular case he was swimming and was 4 days away from from being able to do anything, frankly in his case pulling the stem all the way out and breaking it off to drain as much water as possible would be the best course then seal it up with the crown afterwards. I know drastic but a stem is inexpensive compared to movement dial hands and whatever else might go bad but leaving any moiusture would be tradjic. Once the moisture is heated out or drained out you'll usually only be left with light surface rust whci can be wiped off and brass wire wheeled off. I only mentioned what I did because he was no where where he could take it for 4 days. If a watch comes to me wet all other work stops till that watch is taken apart and dried and rusting arrested. Now I'll admit breaking the stem for someone who is not knowlegable would be a tough call if even thought of but in extreme cases extreme measure some times have to be done. By the way I like our bantering brings up new stuff and different ways of looking at things Rikki

Sorry Rik.

If I had known that you would have snapped the crown off to drain the salt water out and then seal it up again after the moisture was heated out my reply would have been very diferent.

[Vanessa CW21]

Very interesting comments you guys! Be nice though!

My recommendation, always, is to keep the watch as sealed as possible, because as soon as the air hits the movement the corrosion will begin!
I even go as far as asking the customer to put it in a ziplock bag with all the air squeezed out as much as possible.

Once I receive the watch it goes straight into watch rinsing solution in the ultrasonic, with only hands, dial and date indicator removed.

But then again, I haven't had that happen 500 times yet....

[Brushpup]

Originally Posted by directioneng

IMO once the salt water is inside the watch you can soak the outside of the watch in whatever you want but unless you can get the case back off it won't make any difference.
Do you think that when the seals reach their maximum water resistance that they just vanish? At the relatively low pressures we are talking about I would expect the seals to let some water through and yes, possibly seal up again when the pressure is relieved.
I have seen 'O' ring seals leak at high pressure but handle lower pressures long term in the same application. In any event I can't see any water being shaken out through the crown or the crystal seal.
If you had suggested removing the case back and soaking the whole movement in oil I would have agreed.

I don't know where you are getting you information regarding my engineering theory as that would not be from me.
I go more with common sense and practicality.

ps. I can't see the connection between a faulty Rolex "O" ring and a sunken boat.

Anyway I only gave my opinion and got the 'I have fixed more than 500 wet Rolex'. I was not looking for a fight - mate.

How many watches have you taken to a watchmaker in a cup of oil and as for keeping a watch movement in water to stop it rusting?? This problem was salt water as I remember.

Have a nice day yourself.

You make not have been looking for a fight, but your rebuttals were antagonistic (IMO), so I will say my 2 pennies worth.

The point about submerging the watch in whatever is to cut off the oxygen and minimize oxidation, salt water or fresh.

The seal is irrelavant.
Why would we assume the watch didn't flood upon submergance?
Perhaps it leaked because of a big gap in a brittle or badly degraded one allowing in atmospheric pressure?

This caseback thing, gee whiz!!!.... Again irrelavant.
Who carries (or even has) a press and die set to remove a case backs for God's sake?
Theories about removal, and then purging, cleaning, or whatever do NOT matter.
This was an emergnecy situation.
Why this comes up in this instance is beyond me.

The implication about your engineering theories comes from your post response and your screen name.
Don't make much of mine...Coyotes don't know much about watches, but they are survivors, and they learn fast.

Sunken boats and O rings? No one said that they were being compared. The analogy goes back to cutting off oxygen.
If the boat stays down, like the movement staying submerged...it's exposure to oxygen is minimized, thus preventing deterioration. Just an illustrative point man, come on.

I thought Leo's post was heartfelt, genuine, and above all a sincere offer to help. It sounded like it was based on experience, or at least that's the impression I got right off.
Sounds to me like somone has taken in some oil soaked watches in his day after all, and things came out ok.

Then we have a watchmaker offering help, only to be questioned.
Sure he was a little short and curt, but he has every right to respond as such (IMO) when his experienced is questioned (IMO) by a non watchmaker.

Who's really right? I dunno, but one thing I have learned the hard way is to listen to the voice of experience.


Have a Super Day!

[KKB]

Originally Posted by Rikki

Yo guys what you want to do is open crown heat up with a hairdryer which will force out as much moisture as you can then screw down crown. You want to keep as much air out of the watch as you can it's the other ingredient needed to keep the oxidation process going. once sealed up the rusting should slow down quite a bit. With salt water you need to get it to someone within 24 hours or less or you're looking at massive rust new gears dial calendar balance wheel this method works well for me. When I get a wet one in I remove the dial and cal then drop the movement in naptha benzene which displaces the water then blow it off and start the dissesembly process. Hope that helps Rik the watchmaker

Very informative thread.

My only problem is with the above. Wouldn't drying the watch with heat cause the salt water to evaporate causing crystals of salt to form all over the movement which could severely damage all the delicate parts?

[minkysailing]

Excellent thread and a little conerning as I am about to embark on a holiday in Sardinia and intend as always to wear my YM plat/SS whether diving or swimming etc.

One thought struck me that no one appears to have mentioned......INSURANCE...!!! if my watch flooded due to no apparent fault of mine and the watch was in a good state of repair and serviced in the last couple of years then any damge whether partial or permanent is for the insurance company..... that why we have it!!!!

[Rikki]

There's always going to be some moisture left in the watch between the plates,in the mainspring barrel trapped under the dial that no amount of heat will remove without damaging other components. Salt crystals will form but as long as there's some moisture it would take days because of the limited amount of air inside. Now as fresh water goes a very different story no where near the corrosive potential of salt water. In that case if the watch is full of water it's best to seal it up as Vanessa said to keep any additional air from getting inside and continueing the corrosion process. Minky you mentioned Insurance and I believe unless you have a separate insurance rider on your watch it wouldn't be covered. I am dealing with a customers Insurance company on a watch that was involved in a car accident and it's been 2 years and still no setttlement. anywho Morning all back to work Rikki

[Idle Swede]

Originally Posted by directioneng

IMO once the salt water is inside the watch you can soak the outside of the watch in whatever you want but unless you can get the case back off it won't make any difference.
Do you think that when the seals reach their maximum water resistance that they just vanish? At the relatively low pressures we are talking about I would expect the seals to let some water through and yes, possibly seal up again when the pressure is relieved.
I have seen 'O' ring seals leak at high pressure but handle lower pressures long term in the same application. In any event I can't see any water being shaken out through the crown or the crystal seal.
If you had suggested removing the case back and soaking the whole movement in oil I would have agreed.

I don't know where you are getting you information regarding my engineering theory as that would not be from me.
I go more with common sense and practicality.

ps. I can't see the connection between a faulty Rolex "O" ring and a sunken boat.

Anyway I only gave my opinion and got the 'I have fixed more than 500 wet Rolex'. I was not looking for a fight - mate.

How many watches have you taken to a watchmaker in a cup of oil and as for keeping a watch movement in water to stop it rusting?? This problem was salt water as I remember.

Have a nice day yourself.

Thanks for your reply Eddie,

It was not my intention to get into a verbal argument about high pressure, low pressure, psi's and millibars when I gave the OP my initial advice but merely to try to help him out in an emergency situation.

As far as I'm concerned the OP went swimming with the crown secured, (see the OP) and the watch filled up with water.

That to me indicates a bad leak which could even happen when you take a shower or dip your wrist in water.
With a leak like that my advice stays.
Of course the caseback seal doesn't vanish and I don't understand why you would even ask.
Does a tire or an inner tube disappear because you get a flat? (just another of my ignorant examples)

Patrick's reply is amazing as it's almost like he's reading my mind and therefore I can't meet your arguments without sounding like I'm copying him

[Brushpup]

I have special powers Leo, but please don't let my secret out.

Seriously though, when I read your advice I thought...sounds like ole Swede's been down this road before.

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by Idle Swede

What difference does that make in this case?

If it's too old maybe it's incontinent so the fluid was at the inside from the start.



Jocke

[snow_rocks]

Leo is correct with the re-submerging of the watch in fluids.

This is the method for recovering artifacts from the ocean;

keeping them in the same sea water until the find is in a control environment.

And oils (olive) do have the lowest amount of oxygen, as compared to water.

[Andad]

Yes, I think all of the above would solve the OP's problem.

Treat it as an artifact, fill it with the same seawater that originally leaked in and submerge it in oxygen free olive oil until you can get it to a controlled environment.

It's amazing how clear things become when I am presented with the facts.

Mods should make this a sticky.

[Idle Swede]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Yes, I think all of the above would solve the OP's problem.

Treat it as an artifact, fill it with the same seawater that originally leaked in and submerge it in oxygen free olive oil until you can get it to a controlled environment.

It's amazing how clear things become when I am presented with the facts.

Mods should make this a sticky.

Thanks for being a gentleman.

[Brushpup]

Originally Posted by Idle Swede

Thanks for being a gentleman.

I'll second this with enthusiasm. Nice reply Eddie. No hard feelings intended or wanted here.

[rajurama]

how about droping the watch in jar of rice??? thats what is said to remove excess moisture if a mobile phone gets wet...
any thoughts???

[Andad]

Seems like Patrick and Leo are on the same wavelength.

Good on ya guys.

[Christiaan]

Throw away the watch and buy a new one....

[abigsecret]

Originally Posted by Christiaan

Throw away the watch and buy a new one....

It's not just a Breitling Christiaan...

[Rikki]

Oooh that was harsh hehe Rik