1675 Case restoration with Alex Bui (buiwatchco)

[fizz]

Well this quickly turned into a debate....one that I already stirred a few months ago right before making the decision to have my case sent for restoration. If anyone wants to know my thoughts and view on this, they can read it here.

Bottom line, and this is an extremely subjective viewpoint or opinion, I don't (personally) think case restoration is taboo and I find it acceptable because, in my mind, a case (unlike a dial, which is holy and can never be touched) is one of the external parts of a watch and is constantly, for many years or decades, exposed to the elements (weather, door dings, sleeve polish etc.). Visually, while I appreciate dial patina, which adds to the charm of a vintage watch, I don't find beaten up cases to be appealing or charming (that isn't to say everything I have is pristine - I collect Omega military watches and this may be self contradictory of me to state, but considering their military association, I am more sympathetic of the effects of time and wear on them).

My view and experience has been augmented by this restoration job, because if anything, it has significantly improved my wearing pleasure of the 1675 and made me appreciate something now that I didn't when I acquired the watch, that the watch case can be as inducing of joy when worn as anything else.

Someone asked about the financial aspect of it and I'll chip in regarding that as well. The watch wasn't "cheap". I paid market value for it and was well aware of the case condition, which was as described. I decided to pursue the "fix" because every time I looked at the watch and was pleased by the beauty of the dial and insert, I was also a little bit let down by the soft lugs. The price I paid for restoration wasn't very high (1000 USD, which I think is fair). In hindsight, yes, it would have made more sense to pay more for a watch that actually had a non-recut case that was this good, but you know that saying about hindsight being 20/20....

To the question about what exactly was done - Alex mentioned welding so it got the full treatment on 3 of the 4 lugs (don't ask me which ones, because I can't tell!).

Finally, regarding the aspect of "artificial aging" after recutting, I was first made aware of this option when I spoke to Philip Ridley, who asked (or rather offered) if I would like to do this additionally so the finished product didn't look too pristine and incongruous compared to say the bracelet. The only reason I didn't go ahead with him is because his quote was double what Alex indicated with about the same timeframe for work completion.

My final point is this - if someone doesn't like it, they don't have to do it. Nothing is imposed here. There is no compulsion/obligation to pursue this. This is done by choice, and by making this thread and the previous one, I am neither imposing anything. The discussions and debate are great, it's the reason I come here and make these threads, but ultimately, the views expressed (even if they are overwhelmingly of the majority) are just opinions shaped by collective thought. I am willing to bet much of it will (and can) evolve, if not downright change, over time.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by fizz

My final point is this - if someone doesn't like it, they don't have to do it. Nothing is imposed here. There is no compulsion/obligation to pursue this. This is done by choice, and by making this thread and the previous one, I am neither imposing anything.

No need to get defensive just because a few people expressed personal opinions that aren't entirely consistent with yours. I don't think anyone is criticizing you, and certainly nobody suggested you were compelling anyone to have their watches refinished.

[Tritto]

Originally Posted by ronricks

904L is 904L just like 316L is 316L.

I think you missed the smiley wink at the end of my sentence, Ronricks.


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[springer]

Originally Posted by joli160

Normally not for us ordinary folks.
It’s a pity that dealers are not transparant.
Some common sense might help though;
A pristine case with sharp bevels combined with a sagging bracelet is of course redone.
Polished crown on the clasp but sharp edges on the case also doesn’t match.
Several watchmakers marks in the case back but still looking like new is not very realistic.

Having a watch case restored, especially when so many have been over- polished and are in pretty sad shape is a choice of many collectors. Try selling a ratty, old, beat-up over-polished watch - their aren't many buyers for one. Bringing one back to life is much more appealing than the alternative. The con artists restoring and misrepresenting vintage is another subject matter.

I see no issue restoring and refinishing a case to get it back to its original condition - absent the aging marks.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by Tritto

And then the cases can be restored with genuine Rolex metal


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In most cases of laser welding (that I've come across), it is common that spare Rolex bracelet links are used in the process; melted down and re-purposed - no need to worry about not having the correct "oystersteel" added

[springer]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

It's definitely become increasingly popular in recent years - access to CNC machining has changed the game as far as case-restoration goes. For me it depends on the watch. If it's really beat to hell, I'd consider re-cutting. That said, there's something charming about an "honest" watch, as you say.

Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. Case aging is obviously a recent phenomena. While I have no issues with case restorations - I've done several myself - aging would be something that I have no interest in. For me, it opens a whole new window for vintage being misrepresented as original when in fact it was artificially aged.

[flyinghell34]

I really like the results of your refinishing and applaud your decision.

I found myself in a similar situation last year. I have a 1675 and the case was poorly refinished. The case also had some wonky angles on the lugs from over polishing. As much as I loved the watch, my eyes were always drawn to the imperfections when I looked at it.

I decided to send my watch off to LAWW to have the case recut and finished. While the lugs are not as thick as a new case, no welding or metal was added, all the lines are now squared up and properly polished and brushed. The case looks 100% better. Now I see a beautiful watch that I enjoy wearing even more.

I also opted for, what was described as, faint faux aging. They simply added some very faint surface swirls to the polished case sides. It simply tied the case to the bracelet that was not refinished. I think was a good choice given the age of the watch.

For me, I love the idea of a vintage watch but I also like something that looks nice and is pleasing to the eye. I think you will find the same joy now when looking at the watch on your wrist.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by springer

Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. Case aging is obviously a recent phenomena. While I have no issues with case restorations - I've done several myself - aging would be something that I have no interest in. For me, it opens a whole new window for vintage being misrepresented as original when in fact it was artificially aged.

I don't think we do disagree. Must have missed something here, as I'm also not keen on the idea of "aging" a case deliberately. I was referring to restoring a case back to factory specs as per the laser weld/CNC innovation.

[springer]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

In most cases of laser welding (that I've come across), it is common that spare Rolex bracelet links are used in the process; melted down and re-purposed - no need to worry about not having the correct "oystersteel" added

The correct type of stainless steel - the same type as found on vintage Rolex cases and bracelets - is readily available for laser welding machines when repairing Rolex cases.

[77T]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

In most cases of laser welding (that I've come across), it is common that spare Rolex bracelet links are used in the process; melted down and re-purposed - no need to worry about not having the correct "oystersteel" added

Are you saying that "re-purposing" means someone is taking that "melted" bracelet link to be drawn through a die to make some type of Oystersteel welding wire?

This is laser welding, not stick welding.


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[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by 77T

Are you saying that "re-purposing" means someone is taking that "melted" bracelet link to be drawn through a die to make some type of Oystersteel welding wire?

This is laser welding, not stick welding.


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Although I am not an expert on the particulars - Yes, that is generally my understanding of the process of laser welding. I do believe the "laser" is an actual "laser beam" - as opposed to the electrodes used in conventional welding.

[Laserflorida]

Agree with Springer. Have had a few cases restored and loved the finished result. Cant wrap my head around “artificial aging”. Has anyone ever seen a restored Ferrari then artificially aged?

[Davidt]

Regardless as to whether it’s for everyone, the work on the OPs watch looks very good.

I do have concerns around the ‘artificial ageing’ and ‘working primarily with dealers’. I wonder if 100% of these dealer jobs are disclosed as welded and refinished? I assume many are sold with the details conveniently glossed over.

Same with dials, it’s amazing how many vintage Rolex’s pop up at dealers with sharp cases, no lug craters, and perfectly uniform yellow lume across both the dial and hands with no staining whatsoever.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by Davidt

Regardless as to whether it’s for everyone, the work on the OPs watch looks very good.

I do have concerns around the ‘artificial ageing’ and ‘working primarily with dealers’. I wonder if 100% of these dealer jobs are disclosed as welded and refinished? I assume many are sold with the details conveniently glossed over.

Same with dials, it’s amazing how many vintage Rolex’s pop up at dealers with sharp cases, no lug craters, and perfectly uniform yellow lume across both the dial and hands with no staining whatsoever.

There is one dealer I suspect of some goofy business who uses the words "Untouched" "Never Polished" alot, he also demands a MUCH higher premium for many of these watches - the chamfers are too close to the lug holes or the cases look like material was removed from the face of the lug in order to allow a chamfer to be cut. I could be wrong too, I hope I am.

Comparing his watches to another dealer who specializes in "barn finds" it becomes a bit obvious. The other dealer who is better known/trusted here usually includes a before cleaning/new or polished crystal photo.

OP beautiful watch