Certified Pre-Owned question

[Kev M]

It dawned on me, after another thread inquiry and searching various platforms for a decent 16710, that when I look at "vintage" 16710's and 16700's on the CPO sites that most watches still have their original "Swiss" (only) or a tritium dial in place, but if I were to send a watch in they would likely change out the dial and hand set for a modern one. Is there a subtlety in policy that I am missing?

[joli160]

If the AD has to pay for the dial themselves …

[Dan S]

What makes you think that a Swiss only dial would be replaced?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Kev M

It dawned on me, after another thread inquiry and searching various platforms for a decent 16710, that when I look at "vintage" 16710's and 16700's on the CPO sites that most watches still have their original "Swiss" (only) or a tritium dial in place, but if I were to send a watch in they would likely change out the dial and hand set for a modern one. Is there a subtlety in policy that I am missing?

If you send your watch to RSC they do not change out the dial and hand set for a modern one. These parts are only changed if the originals are damaged and you pay for them. A tritium dial is often "recommended" since they don't glow any more, but again, its your decision and you pay.

[502 to Right]

Speaking with my Rolex AD watchmaker, he said the only time they insist on changing dial and/or hands as a condition of servicing the watch is if the tritium is flaking and breaking off. Because the loose tritium can cause problems with the movement. But if the tritium is fine, there is no need to change. Most 16710's won't have flaking tritium.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by Tools

If you send your watch to RSC they do not change out the dial and hand set for a modern one. These parts are only changed if the originals are damaged and you pay for them.

Spot on

[Enezdez]

I too have a question regarding Rolex's CPO program. I am leaning towards buying a GMT from Bucherer 16710 late 1990's early 2000's - (I am tired of wating plus there is no way I would be able to get a Pepsi, regardless of my history).

Do they come period correct meaning bezel, hands, dial, case, bracelet belongs to said watch or has Rolex replace them due to wear and tear with newer more modern parts and in essence created an authorized Franken-Watch? With no historical value!

Also will I be able to service the watch in the not so near future like in 25 years after all the watch is already over 25 years old potentially?

Lastly do CPO watches have to meet a strict guideline for polishing which makes them all the same or is it buyer beware and try and pick out the case with the most meat on it?

Thank you in advance for your time and prompt answers,

Enezdez

[Kev M]

Originally Posted by Tools

If you send your watch to RSC they do not change out the dial and hand set for a modern one. These parts are only changed if the originals are damaged and you pay for them. A tritium dial is often "recommended" since they don't glow any more, but again, its your decision and you pay.

Right, I figured I'd pay just wasn't sure if they'd insist on changing out for working parts. :)

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Enezdez

Do they come period correct meaning bezel, hands, dial, case, bracelet belongs to said watch or has Rolex replace them due to wear and tear with newer more modern parts and in essence created an authorized Franken-Watch? With no historical value!

Every pre-owned watch will be different. Use your hard-earned expertise, and ask the sales associate about the particular watch you're interested in.

Originally Posted by Enezdez

Also will I be able to service the watch in the not so near future like in 25 years after all the watch is already over 25 years old potentially?

Probably, but it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future.

Originally Posted by Enezdez

Lastly do CPO watches have to meet a strict guideline for polishing which makes them all the same or is it buyer beware and try and pick out the case with the most meat on it?

Every pre-owned watch will be different. Use your own judgement.

[502 to Right]

Originally Posted by Enezdez

Do they come period correct meaning bezel, hands, dial, case, bracelet belongs to said watch or has Rolex replace them due to wear and tear with newer more modern parts and in essence created an authorized Franken-Watch? With no historical value!

Also will I be able to service the watch in the not so near future like in 25 years after all the watch is already over 25 years old potentially?

Lastly do CPO watches have to meet a strict guideline for polishing which makes them all the same or is it buyer beware and try and pick out the case with the most meat on it?

Thank you in advance for your time and prompt answers,

Enezdez

I discussed these issues recently with my local AD watchmaker (the AD is a CPO participant) and, in fact, I was looking at several GMT's they had for sale at the time.

1) The watches are fully serviced by the CPO watchmakers (who are Rolex trained and certified) and the watches are inspected by Rolex for QC before they can be sold. They will use service bezel inserts, hands, and dials as necessary if the original parts are damaged. So you might very well find a CPO watch with a tritium dial and SuperLuminova hands. You might very well find replacement bezel inserts in Submariners and GMT's. You might very well find tritium dials replaced with "Swiss Made" service dials with SuperLuminova. If originality is important to you, you need to do your homework and inspect each model.

2) You are looking for a watch with a 3185 or 3186 movement. The 31XX series was produced by Rolex up until just a few years ago. I know the Submariner used the 3135 until 2020. So you should be good for at least the next 30 years in terms of Rolex servicing the 3185/86 movement. Think about this: Rolex still services the 15XX movement and that ceased production in the late 1970's.

3) CPO watches must meet Rolex's strict guidelines for polishing. But that doesn't mean all cases with have the same full thickness lugs. They do not do laser welding for the CPO program so the best they can do is polish the pre-owned watch they have to best of their abilities. They cannot add metal. So as with #1 above, you will have to do your homework and inspect each example you might want to purchase.

4) You didn't ask this question, but I will the info in case someone wants to know. All CPO watches come with a service warranty card and CPO box. Some come with the original box and papers, but many do not. You need to ask. Oddly, of the GMT's I was looking at they had the same price on GMT's whether it came with original box and papers or not.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Every pre-owned watch will be different. Use your hard-earned expertise, and ask the sales associate about the particular watch you're interested in.


Probably, but it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future.


Every pre-owned watch will be different. Use your own judgement.

Excellent points.

Key additional ones that I'd add for the CPO model program:
1) It provides a legitimacy advantage over the open market model. No watch on the stolen Rolex list can make it into the inventory.

2) Any midcase that is unable to pass a corrosion review or water resistance test will be winnowed out. In such situations, a service midcase may be used (if the economics makes sense for the resale value).

These aren't available to the everyday reseller.

A watch's legitimacy is usually foregone.
Dodgy original midcases are left to the buyer's burden of due diligence.

[Enezdez]

Thank you everyone to your prompt replies and input especially @502 to Right, I was not aware that in some cases the original box and papers are included...thanks again everyone!

Cheers,

Enezdez

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by Enezdez

Thank you everyone to your prompt replies and input especially @502 to Right, I was not aware that in some cases the original box and papers are included...thanks again everyone!

Cheers,

Enezdez

Apart from the inflated mkt price, the biggest issue facing a buyer of one of these pieces (and who doesn't put in their homework trousers), is that Rolex obviously can't disrespect their own service parts.

I have seen a 1994 16710 that was perfect tritium mint piece up for sale with them on the program, at practically the same price as a heavily component replaced one (service parts) with them, and I suspect that unless a buyer sells it back into the program they'll take a 50% bath on that second watch, as we all
know how we collector community value service pieces !

* As a bit of a project exercise a pal of mine had his horribly smashed up piece completely replaced by RSC i.e. 4mil case, swiss, service c/B, 93150 etc etc calibre mostly kept only.

Rolex I vaguely recall charged him £6000-6500 for the watch which was about half its original parts vintage value and quite a profitable little project, as he sold it for £7500-7800 the profiteering little mercenary!

As others said they RSC don't (ask to) change SWISS or SWISS MADE luminova dials very often as they don't deteriorate age (which of course we mostly like/covet) as radium and tritium do.